simple query re road trains - 24v?

[msroadkill612]

do they get by on 24v - seems a long way to the tail lights even for 24v?

[Agent86]

Most trailers used for road trains are setup for 12v lighting

That said, the newer LED equipped trailers can generally handle either voltages.

Rule of thumb is
euro truck = 24v
American truck = 12v

[msroadkill612]

Originally Posted by Agent86

Most trailers used for road trains are setup for 12v lighting

That said, the newer LED equipped trailers can generally handle either voltages.

Rule of thumb is
euro truck = 24v
American truck = 12v

I confess the point of my question was - what is a workable voltage for a house?

I hear 24v unless you have v thick wiring - wire each room for 12 v from there

perhaps a bad example as tail lights are not a big power draw & simpler to just have thick wires in a road train (how many trailers again - is it 3 - or more?)

ta for the info

so no such thing as a 36/48v roadtrain electrics rail on them?

[flappist]

What do you want to power?

Voltage is not the problem, current is what leads to the losses (yes I know they are related).

The more current you draw the more loss on the lines so using higher voltage will allow less current for the same power.

[msroadkill612]

Originally Posted by flappist

What do you want to power?

Voltage is not the problem, current is what leads to the losses (yes I know they are related).

The more current you draw the more loss on the lines so using higher voltage will allow less current for the same power.

yep - ledS would be fine on 6v even

good question

I would gradually work my way up the scale & see what the system would take

start w/ ; mobes charger, laptops & most solid state stuff including LEDs & LCDs

wait & see then maybe a 24v drinks fridge - even if not fully able to cope - it cools a non perishable for the real fridge?

big block in syd - 750 SQ m & longish

doesnt do to be too restricted re distance from the power source

the scam w/ power is that w/ all the green stuff - they have to raise prices to get same revenue from smaller volume sales

a smart sparky mate reckons 24v is a good starting point - mainly wonder if i shouldnt spend a bit more & start w/ 48v say?

[Burnout]

In the old days, most stations on Gensets were 32 volt DC systems.

[msroadkill612]

Originally Posted by Burnout

In the old days, most stations on Gensets were 32 volt DC systems.

not sure what a genset is - imagine is for farms off the grid using a gen & battery bank for the farm house etc?

am single & rattle around a big old house & am frugal - but I hate to think how big users must be hurting at the increases

its on my mind as i commented in

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social...271445943.html

u can click back to main story

spose what am wondering is, whats a doable voltage for a reasonably compact 3rd world villiage, as they tend to be?

I figured roadtrains may be a good indicator - but it seems i was wrong (flawed logic) - tail lights are not a big ask for the system

I dont think I am all wrong about 12v being not up to it & truck makers tend to agree by going 24v - maybe starting big donks is part of it, but from what I hear, long wires to the back of a semi e.g. can be iffy at 12v

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by msroadkill612

do they get by on 24v - seems a long way to the tail lights even for 24v?

12v and the same wire thickness on all trailers as they are interchangeable.

As the batteries are on the Prime Mover it helps if you drive really really fast, then you can use the slipstream to blow some power to the back trailer.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by flappist

What do you want to power?

Voltage is not the problem, current is what leads to the losses (yes I know they are related).

The more current you draw the more loss on the lines so using higher voltage will allow less current for the same power.

Your thinking is flawed, the higher the voltage the less current used therefore your wiring gauge can be smaller which would be more economical for costs & use.

To the OP it depends on what low voltage appliances you are going to implement in the installation.

[msroadkill612]

Ta trublu

my notion was to have a 24v rail around the house & each room gets a knocked down 12v rail for actual use in the rooms (much like the grid) - tho nice to have the option (am sure a 24v truck starter would have some grunt) of 24v - they should build new houses like that

mainly I want to reduce my grid bill down & I hear 12v requires too thick wires to be doable over any distance. Make the 12v runs as short as possible.

hence my query about road trains - i wondered how they cope - it depends on the job & tail lights are not a big ask & it seems they get by with 12v tho its still not clear - having the same wiring for all trailers is not to say you cant use 24v for the lights at the back tho I can see why they would standardis on 12v & blow the thicker wires - different tractors tug various trailors

no specific app

but so much is done on 240v & often v wastefully - 240v to charge a ~4v mobes e.g. Ever checked the lo volt lighting at bunnings - the transformers are red hot - its a chimera. I can thing of stacks of cool stuff just from the average wreck - motors, stereo, pumps, lights, wiring looms

No reason a desktop pc cant run on 12v - mine is on 24/7 - cant be fagged rebooting - always the danger time

I only need 240v lights to read & in kitchen - even then?

just off the top of my head makes my head spin

but to turn u question around - I dont know in advance (& in my experience it is unwise to think one does) - I just want as many options as possible by starting w/ a solid "grid" for the house

Not sure if can be off topic on your own topic

sorry - i did say it was a simple question but I enjoy the debate - or perhaps sharing - I have it on good authority that 24v & 12v is the way to go to wire a house for wind/solar - but intuitively - 12v is the go once you get to individual rooms (so much stuff is 12v or less) - 12v can cope there

I can cope w/ the bills but I hate being ripped off as we certainly are - have u heard of the energy companies gold plating the grid so they can rort the pricing formula?

am ok with both the grid & lo volt - am not a zealot

A killer app for me would be a simple solar hot water system - I have 3 phase instant hot water right next to the shower which has its merits - but if it arrived even slightly prewarmed - it would save heaps - I have to sit on that as they are building next door & I cant figure theffect it will have on sunlight


anyhoo - ta 4 the input - enjoyed chatting - u sound u know u stuff

[flappist]

Originally Posted by trublu

Your thinking is flawed, the higher the voltage the less current used therefore your wiring gauge can be smaller which would be more economical for costs & use.

To the OP it depends on what low voltage appliances you are going to implement in the installation.

You just said exactly the same thing as I did.

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

12v and the same wire thickness on all trailers as they are interchangeable.

As the batteries are on the Prime Mover it helps if you drive really really fast, then you can use the slipstream to blow some power to the back trailer.

I think that you’re spreading false information on the subject here. This only works in a head wind and is usually assisted by a downhill gradient.

In a worse case scenario, with no head wind and on level ground, you may have to reverse at high speed to get the power back to the batteries as the electrons have all been forced back through the clearance lights and accumulate in the tail lights thus failing to complete a circuit, even with multi volt LED lights.

This can also vary with Euro trucks on a 24 volt system as many don’t have the required horse power to generate the G forces required to push the vast amount of electrons through 5 MM road train rated wire, whereas American driveline trucks on a 12 volt system will have no problem with this.

[Franco Cozzo]

You still need to get 12V DC into the place somehow, battery bank and solar panels?

24V can run smaller wiring but how common are 24V accessories? Lots more 12V stuff around. We use 12v fluros in our ambulances.

[msroadkill612]

Ta for the input

agree

was mainly thinking of 24v for the trunk lines around the house & 12v for each room or sector

24v components exist for trucks so not unheard of

[flappist]

Originally Posted by msroadkill612

Ta for the input

agree

was mainly thinking of 24v for the trunk lines around the house & 12v for each room or sector

24v components exist for trucks so not unheard of

How are you going to convert the 24v to 12v?

[msroadkill612]

BTW

A mate has a yacht w/ solar - 24 foot cat

he has all mod cons & no power bill - must feel good - 12v using 2 hefty batteries

(except a decent fridge - unsurprising given he basically installed it in a cupboard)

also BTW

some LCDs have external power adaptors - the boat sparkys simply nip it off & bobs u uncle - a 12v LCD

[msroadkill612]

Originally Posted by flappist

How are you going to convert the 24v to 12v?

dont know

but I have a sparky mate am sure does - cant be too hard

homes are full of wall warts doing 240v AC > sub 6v DC

am sure its a common app on trucks giver the dearth of 24v gear like sat nav/ radio/ cell chargers ...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by msroadkill612

dont know

but I have a sparky mate am sure does - cant be too hard

homes are full of wall warts doing 240v AC > sub 6v DC

am sure its a common app on trucks giver the dearth of 24v gear like sat nav/ radio/ cell chargers ...

Yes AC is not a problem, DC is though. If you find a cheap lossless way of changing 24 DC to 12 DC you will make $zillions.

[msroadkill612]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yes AC is not a problem, DC is though. If you find a cheap lossless way of changing 24 DC to 12 DC you will make $zillions.

ta 4 advice didnt know it was that so hard comverting - or maybe i did - (using DC for trunk grid lines is the new black - but a hassle converting back to AC)

OTH - as above - they do it all the time w/ wall warts domestically

lossless schmossless - if its ~ free energy - who cares?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by msroadkill612

ta 4 advice didnt know it was that so hard comverting - or maybe i did - (using DC for trunk grid lines is the new black - but a hassle converting back to AC)

OTH - as above - they do it all the time w/ wall warts domestically

lossless schmossless - if its ~ free energy - who cares?

You really don't get it do you?

You started the thread asking about using 24v to get away with lighter gauge wiring. If you down convert with losses you will need the thicker wire as you are still drawing the same current.

[msroadkill612]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really don't get it do you?

You started the thread asking about using 24v to get away with lighter gauge wiring. If you down convert with losses you will need the thicker wire as you are still drawing the same current.

Good point

but in my dotage I trust the advice of guys who have been there & done that over the theorists

& I have it on good advice from pragmatic sparkys i am right

u may be right - the cost of extra copper & 12v may trump 24v & conversion hassles - hence the debate?

[ebxr8240]

I have solar in motorhome .. Has 700 watt solar panels.. 4 /6 / 250 A/H volt deep cycle batteries running 12V system.. 240v is supplied through inverter.. I find it FAR less complicated to start generator [4500 watt] if large amps are used such as frying pan etc..
It works WELL supplying power to fridge and freezer..
I would say if you used larger wire size and kept voltage to 12V you won't have issues..
Say 4mm as main wire and 2.5sq off .. This is NOT the rule with 240V but with extra low voltage its o/k.. The more systems you have converting power you lose something in every device..
Funny thing I specifically bought a 12V LED T.V... So I didn't need to run inverter or gen set at night .. Yea 12V supplied through 240v transformer !! I still require a 12V lead...Sheesh !!
If you use batteries as storage ? Deep cycle are best as they have longer use intervals and survive longer with larger discharges were car type batteries give up..

[flappist]

Originally Posted by msroadkill612

Good point

but in my dotage I trust the advice of guys who have been there & done that over the theorists

& I have it on good advice from pragmatic sparkys i am right

u may be right - the cost of extra copper & 12v may trump 24v & conversion hassles - hence the debate?

Well good to see you have your solution.

Closed.