Anyone tried the Petrol with Ethanol fuel?

[johnydep]

I've only just noticed it around my area and wondering if it's worth trying in my Territory, I use Premium fuel 90% of the time. It is 95 Octane and about eight cents a litre cheaper than Premium.

I've heard some horror stories about it, like it rusts metal parts of the fuel system, causes condensation to pool into blobs of water in the tank which blocks fuel filters.
Is this true or just a scare campaign from the oil industry?

Is it any good?

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

I tried it in the XF, thought I had nothing much to lose seeing as I have a complete spare car I can pull bits from and replace anything that might break in the XF if it was a bad idea, but it didn't seem to do any harm, if anything the XF went a little better. It idled smoothly, had no less power then usual, didn't seem to have any troubles with it.

I'd put it in again, but I have the safety net of a complete replacement for anything that might not like the 10% ethanol.

[Paxton]

John, I tried it in my Territory, and found that it Pinged like hell. Worse than with 91 Octane Caltex Crap that I normally run in it. I would run it in an older Carbie car, or the Lexus, however I would not run it in my Territory again. My Car has a history of Pinging, however I know what it normally sounds like compared to ethanol. Try it, and tell me how you got on.

-Andrew

[dogbreath_48]

Is this the new mid-octane stuff at mobil (series 5000?)? I tried that and my car pinged it's nipples off, but then i can make it ping on premium :P

If i had of known it had ethanol in it (...which it may well not have) i would never have put it in! Don't think my original 1985 fuel system would like it...

-Stu

[johnydep]

i don't think Mobil use it.

There may be a few different names, one is E10

paxtonandrew, I think I may try it out, oncee shouldn't hurt.

The MaDDeSTMaN, I don't have a spare engine, but like I mentioned ^^ I may try it, depending on the poll.

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

Originally Posted by dogbreath_48

Is this the new mid-octane stuff at mobil (series 5000?)?

That's a good question, which fuel from which petrol station are you talking about? I tried the 10% ethanol blend from united, which was cheaper then the normal unleaded and had a higher octane rating, so I decided it was worth a try

[jabba]

It is better if used in the newer cars, as it does have a tendency to ruin spark plugs in older cars. the first time I used E10 I was less then impressed. But towards the end of the first tank My ute was behaving alot better. I have now filled up with it 7 times and My ute is running the best it has in a long time.

Regarding the issues about rust issues in the fuel line and water ponding in the tank. Ithink this would only affect those in the USA ase they are using up to 30% ethonol in there fuel.. And just for your info about ethonol being used as a fuel for our cars. my grand father spent some time living the the States and told me that in the Good old days you would pull into a Gas station and the pump operator would ask you " Ethel or Methel" meaning do you want ethonol or methonol.

In my opinion ethonol is a good thing and I do recomend it

[johnydep]

Just found this article on it; http://www.unitedpetroleum.com.au/Co...3_company1.htm

BOOST 98 AND PLUS ULP – TWO NEW PETROL GRADES FROM UNITED PETROLEUM
Wednesday, 29 June 2005

“United Petroleum has today introduced two new grades of petrol, BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP, at its retail sites in Adelaide. United’s customers will for the first time be able to choose between normal unleaded petrol and ethanol enhanced petrol grades”, David Szymczak, the General Manager of United Petroleum said today.

“ BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP are high performance grades of petrol, both enhanced with 10 per cent ethanol. BOOST 98 has a 98 octane rating and PLUS ULP has a 94 octane rating as compared to 95 octane premium unleaded petrol and 91 octane for normal regular unleaded .

BOOST 98 will be sold at United at a substantial discount to the price of normal 98 premium unleaded. For the first time Adelaide motorists will be able to buy 98 grade petrol at heavily discounted prices.

PLUS ULP will also be discounted compared to regular unleaded petrol, so motorists will obtain a price advantage and a higher octane fuel.

Adelaide will be the first city where these new innovative fuels from United will be offered.

Ethanol is produced in Australia from renewable crops such as sugar cane, which generates new economic activity and employment on Australian farms and in regional communities.

United have entered into an alliance agreement with CSR for the supply of ethanol for BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP.

“CSR have been very helpful in the development of BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP”, Mr Szymczak stated.

“Ethanol has been used extensively as an additive in petrol in America for more than 20 years, and it is becoming increasingly popular in Europe and Asia for its performance and environmentally friendly qualities.

Ethanol is a natural octane enhancer, so the addition of 10 per cent ethanol to petrol boosts its octane level and its performance. Ethanol contains oxygen which helps the other components in petrol to burn more efficiently. It also assists cleaning of the car’s fuel system. Ethanol is widely used in high performance racing fuels.

Ethanol also assists in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, which are a major contributor to global warming. Petrol with a 10 per cent ethanol blend reduces carbon monoxide and total hydrocarbon emissions from a car’s engine, and it contains less toxins and carcinogens than regular unleaded petrol.” David Szymczak explains.

Both BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP fully comply with Australian Fuel Quality Standards, and most vehicles can run on petrol containing 10 per cent ethanol. The Australian Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries (FCAI) has determined that existing vehicle warranties can support petrol with an ethanol level up to 10 per cent.

Motorists can switch between Boost 98 and PLUS ULP and other grades of petrol.

As Lead Replacement Petrol is being phased out by local refineries, it will be replaced by BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP at United sites. However, cars manufactured pre-1986 using BOOST 98 or PLUS ULP may require a lead substitute additive.

BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP are available now at the United Adelaide Airport and United Croydon Park sites. Over the next week it will also be available at United Kurralta Park, United Salisbury, United Richmond, United Pooraka, and United Pennington. Construction of the new United Blair Athol site will be completed in late August, and will open offering these new products.

Mr Szymczak concluded by saying that:

“Ethanol blended petrols such as BOOST 98 and PLUS ULP are the way of the future, so motorists will save money while providing a BOOST to the environment, a BOOST to the economy and a BOOST to their car’s performance.”

I'm thinking about filling up tonight for a try, as I'll need petrol tomorrow any way.

[clampy]

aint seen anything like that in WAWA land yet..

[EFIwindsor]

Originally Posted by jmartion

aint seen anything like that in WAWA land yet..

Same goes for Sunny QLD Nothing like that here.

[Kryton]

ive havent seen it or heard of it yet.
cheaper petrol....ill believe that when i see it.

[brenx]

I tried it in the XB the 95ron one. Not an issue. It's an oxygenated fuel though. So keep that in mind. Meaning you'll use more fuel to make the same power as you did on unleaded. In the end you save nothing. It would have to be at least 10-20c cheaper to make it worth wild.

[johnydep]

OK, I filled up with PLUS ULP @ 112.6
The BOOST 98 was 118.9
Unleaded @ 116.9

I was tempted to get the BOOST 98, but decided I'd try the PLUS 95.

So far I can't feel any difference, but I will keep a close watch on everything, including fuel usage.

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

Originally Posted by johnydep

OK, I filled up with PLUS ULP @ 112.6
The BOOST 98 was 118.9
Unleaded @ 116.9

I was tempted to get the BOOST 98, but decided I'd try the PLUS 95.

So far I can't feel any difference, but I will keep a close watch on everything, including fuel usage.

Yeah, that PLUS ULP is the one I tried. Tell us how it goes

[MickyB]

I have just filled up with the Boost 98, so far my car has felt exactly the same after 50km, I'll let you guys know on the economy of the car when I fill up next.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by jabba

It is better if used in the newer cars, as it does have a tendency to ruin spark plugs in older cars. the first time I used E10 I was less then impressed. But towards the end of the first tank My ute was behaving alot better. I have now filled up with it 7 times and My ute is running the best it has in a long time.

Regarding the issues about rust issues in the fuel line and water ponding in the tank. Ithink this would only affect those in the USA ase they are using up to 30% ethonol in there fuel.. And just for your info about ethonol being used as a fuel for our cars. my grand father spent some time living the the States and told me that in the Good old days you would pull into a Gas station and the pump operator would ask you " Ethel or Methel" meaning do you want ethonol or methonol.

In my opinion ethonol is a good thing and I do recomend it

Too right. In the USA it is very hard to find fuel without at least 25% ethanol, and their octane rating of fuel is lower than ours too. The americans are using much higher blends of ethanol too, as they don't like grabbing their ankles on the white house lawn waiting for some OPEC delegate to speak. Ethanol is really clean, keeps motors clean, easy to produce, cheap and renewable.

In this country, as the sugar farmers have been dudded by the free trade agreement, I think it's only fair that we stop relying so much on crude oil and start running ethanol blends made from sugar cane. This will keep our farmers happy, the environmentalists, the greens, the motorists and basically everyone but the oil companies really happy.

Apparently there is only a little retuning to be done in order to run ethanol, (ie injector strainers need to be swapped to brass instead of polypropylene etc). I heard some guy on the radio the other day talking about how he filled his car up with pure ethanol, and it supposedly ran great. He also reckons that it cost him 4-5 cents per litre. The government could still charge its fuel taxes and all that and we'd still only be paying 50-60 cpl.

I honestly believe in the next few years we are going to look back on the days we used crude oil for fuel and say to ourselves; "how stupid were we to use that filthy crap". Go the ethanol.

[Des]

Before I bought the XR8, tried it in our Explorer and Corolla, and had pinging, idle problems and surgeing rpm's. I'd never put it anything I own again. This was before the big "crackdown" here in NSW, so they blends may be better now. I'm still worried though as all the countries that run higher blends of ethanol have their engine/ fuel systems designed and built from the word "go" to cope with the blends. About the info tallied about in Australia, almost all of it is by groups who have an interest in the results, so who do you believe? My father was employed by a fuel company for 33+ years, all of the company scientists always ran and recomended PULP, because if it's cleaner properties (in regards to engine internals). It's your car, it your choice, but remember some of the detergents and other agents added to petrol to help keep your engine clean may be "killed off" by the ethanol.
Later, Brad....

[OzJavelin]

At the rate we consume petrol, how many acres of sugarcane would we need to plant to run 10% ethanol across the board? A lot I'd think? It would make Qld a "resource capital" ...

[ltd]

One of the things to remember in regards to the expose that the media did on service station owners recently was that it was toluene that was causing the biggest problems. This is because it is essentially a very potent caustic stripper, and it was responsible for stripping the lining out of fuel lines, rubber seals, coated metal etc. Also, it effectively lowered the octane rating of fuel, bringing about the pinging that everyone complained about. Ethanol on the other hand is a great way to increase the octane rating, and it does not harm fuel systems.

Seriously, it is only a small adaption in manufacturing to make an engine run on pure ethanol, and it's also not that hard to adapt existing engines. For the sake of saving billions of dollars that would otherwise go to the saudi's; I really hope we grab this opportunity by the short and curlies and help our sugar, wheat, barley etc farmers out. Sure, we may need 66 litres where we currently use 60, but at 50-60cpl who really cares? I for one would love to hear the price of oil on the television and laugh my head off knowing that it won't effect me anymore.

Go the ethanol.

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by ltd

I heard some guy on the radio the other day talking about how he filled his car up with pure ethanol, and it supposedly ran great. He also reckons that it cost him 4-5 cents per litre.

Ahahahahahha. yeah, right. An engine set up to run on alcohol consumes 3-4 times as much fuel to achieve Stoichiometric fuel air ratio, this translates into massive consumption....(one of the tricks on a carbied alcohol fueled car is to simply remove the main jets to get enough fuel flow) *And* its cost per litre is still quite high. I somehow think this guy was off with the pixies, having consumed a little too much ethanol himself.

Originally Posted by ltd

One of the things to remember in regards to the expose that the media did on service station owners recently was that it was toluene that was causing the biggest problems. This is because it is essentially a very potent caustic stripper, and it was responsible for stripping the lining out of fuel lines, rubber seals, coated metal etc. Also, it effectively lowered the octane rating of fuel, bringing about the pinging that everyone complained about.

Toluene isn't caustic, however it is a very agressive solvent. Its also used as an Octane *BOOSTER*. During the Turbo F1 era when the teams were allowed to blend their own fuels, they used alot of toluene to raise the octane and make the engines live with a 6:1 compression and 60-70Psi of boost. The bottles of "Octane booster" that you can buy are pretty close to straight toluene with a couple of other aditives...
Try getting your facts straight instead of watching Today tonight or listening to John Law's braindead callers.....

[johnydep]

Toluene was a problem for a while, because unscrupulous petrol station proprietors were mixing way too much of it into the fuel.
The correct mix is great for engines, increased octane.
http://www.c-store.com.au/magazine/a...2000/fuel.html

Too much is also toxic; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toluene

Chronic or frequent inhalation of toluene over long time periods leads to irreversible brain damage; lower levels can cause damage to teeth

[johnydep]

I asked a few guys at work today and they all reckon I am mad to use it, reckon all the metal parts will corode.

Well there isn't too much metal in modern fuel system these days, and 10% isn't much. I'll try two tanks and keep reading this thread for users opinions & experience with it.

[xr8daz]

If it is safe to use in all petrol engines , then why do the bowsers have little stickers on them that read " Not to be used in aircraft engines"?
I worked in a lolly factory for 15 years and i have seen first hand the damage Ethanol can cause to rubbers etc.. in machinery.
I'll stick to dirty old premium petrol.....
Darryl

There is not a "I use straight LPG" option :(

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by ltd

Too right. In the USA it is very hard to find fuel without at least 25% ethanol, and their octane rating of fuel is lower than ours too.

There's a reason its lower. They use a different measurement system. In Australia, we use RON (Research Octane). The formula Americans use for their octane goes as follows

RON + MON / 2. (MON = Motor Octane).

In reality, 91 RON is about the same as their 87 octane regular.. and 98 RON is about the same as their 93 octane premium. Plus they have 95 in some places...

[bindi]

I know that in NSW, as some ppl have stated here, that Today Tonight and all those godawful shows kicked up a big stink over both ethanol and toluene, and I can't remember what happened but now we have big stickers on some of our servos which say stuff about the petrol being petrol and nothing else... can't think of it off the top of my head though.

Does anyone remember this, and what was the outcome? I am curious. If I don't use at least Optimax in the Rolla she runs like the Monty Python Machine That Goes Ping.

[jabba]

Originally Posted by nvy069

Same goes for Sunny QLD Nothing like that here.

Independent fuel supplies have E10 in QLD

[Pinkbits]

Have been using United "plus ulp" for a week now, in the work van (90 Econovan) carting around tools etc, seems to go and idle better and does not ping any more.

[Buzz]

Filled up with the cheap ethanol blend (Plus ULP) Last week.

At first car idled a bit rough although it seemed to run OK when off idle

about 70-100 K's later Idle was as good as it's ever been if not better

Was so impressed I filled up again this morning with the same gear.

Didn't check economy (it hurts too much to calculate the costs of running a big car for no reason), but the dash computer average KM/100L display started off at 15 L/100KM ( not good) and then by the end of the week had returned to my usual 13 L/100KM. End result economy seems at least the same.

Cheers

Buzz

[Matto_84]

I would stick away from ethanol. I have used it in my old car ( I knew as it had 10% ethanol stick on the pump.) and immediately I got less power, worse economy stuttering and hesitations. I went to a BP petrol station afterwards and got a tank of 91 octane petrol and she ran like a dream..