What Power & Torque is the standard XR6 N/A ZF-6 Speed Rated At?

krzysiek · 31-10-2012, 12:19 PM

Hi everyone, hope you are all doing well.

I have a friend who works at Ford as a mechanic, and I've asked him a couple of times if the N/A and Turbo models of the Falcon have different transmission (that is, if the Turbo transmissions are built stronger).

He says they are identical in every way and both take the same power/torque with no problem.

I have an EcoLPi and I am thinking of getting it tuned at some point. I may or may not go ahead with it, but one of the main things sitting on my mind is the transmission.

I have heard that during production when they were testing the EcoLPi it was blowing things up, and I am not keen on going forward if that's going to happen. Especially do not want to damage the 6-speed.

Does anyone know what the N/A 6-speed is rated at. What kind of power / torque can it handle? And is there any official mention to these numbers, I mean, how do people know the transmission is different between the N/A and the T?

Thanks for reading, have a good one!

mik · 31-10-2012, 01:02 PM

have you had a look at the id tag under bonnet for transmission? if there is one it might give you a serial number you can trace back on the net for specs.

NeoBF · 31-10-2012, 01:39 PM

Hi mate,

I asked a similar question a few months ago, here is the thread:
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ighlight=neobf

Bossxr8 · 31-10-2012, 08:44 PM

The NA 6 speed is rated at 450nm, the turbo versions are rated at 600nm. The only internal difference is a couple of extra clutches in the turbo version. I think 4 Vs 6. The Miami version gets 7 clutches.

You will have headroom if you get the LPi tuned. The ZF's have proven they can handle much more than the factory torque ratings anyway.

madmelon · 31-10-2012, 10:50 PM

A transmission's torque rating is not what it "will blow up at" but rather a rating that ensures satisfactory life of all internal components. Of course, there is a point at which shafts will snap or teeth will be broken off gears however this is usually much lower than the fatigue strength of these components.

krzysiek · 01-11-2012, 12:49 AM

Thanks guys for chiming in. 450nm for the N/A sounds reasonable. The LPi is rated at about 410nm stock (Ford may have been conservative with this rating anyway, it could be a few nm more).

So if I get it tuned, what's the chance it's going to push past 450nm? I know it could go higher than 450nm (the transmission, that is - but longevity is affected) but I'd like to keep it within safe limits if possible. Don't want to destory anything by chance.

Anyone know of / heard of any tuners who have dealt with the LPi's yet? Don't necessarily want to be a guinea pig either!

madmelon · 01-11-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

A transmission's torque rating is not what it "will blow up at" but rather a rating that ensures satisfactory life of all internal components. Of course, there is a point at which shafts will snap or teeth will be broken off gears however this is usually much lower than the fatigue strength of these components.

I need to correct:

The point at which gear teeth bend off or shafts twist is much HIGHER than the torque required to induce a fatigue failure. Oops!

madmelon · 01-11-2012, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krzysiek

Thanks guys for chiming in. 450nm for the N/A sounds reasonable. The LPi is rated at about 410nm stock (Ford may have been conservative with this rating anyway, it could be a few nm more).

So if I get it tuned, what's the chance it's going to push past 450nm? I know it could go higher than 450nm (the transmission, that is - but longevity is affected) but I'd like to keep it within safe limits if possible. Don't want to destory anything by chance.

Anyone know of / heard of any tuners who have dealt with the LPi's yet? Don't necessarily want to be a guinea pig either!

I'm still keenly awaiting results from someone getting an LPi tuned. I've googled several times but haven't yet found anything.

krzysiek · 01-11-2012, 01:04 PM

It will be a bit of time before I get to doing it. I have a bit of research left to do in front of me, and I don't feel overly comfortable with being the first to go and get their LPi tuned. Maybe I have a poor understanding of the potential risks, but from what I have read, things could go bad.

Bossxr8 · 02-11-2012, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

A transmission's torque rating is not what it "will blow up at" but rather a rating that ensures satisfactory life of all internal components. Of course, there is a point at which shafts will snap or teeth will be broken off gears however this is usually much lower than the fatigue strength of these components.

Yep, the 450nm rating is for the life of the transmission ie. it's rated to handle upto 450nm for the life of it. And thats probably a conservative rating. If you treat it well it would probably go well past that rating.

krzysiek · 03-11-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Yep, the 450nm rating is for the life of the transmission ie. it's rated to handle upto 450nm for the life of it. And thats probably a conservative rating. If you treat it well it would probably go well past that rating.

Boss, thanks for your reply.

What do you mean when you say treat it well? Not put the foot down too much, or service it often? Or both?

Bossxr8 · 03-11-2012, 10:17 PM

I just mean not thrashing the absolute bejesus out of it all day everyday, drag racing and circuit racing too.

And although they say its supposed to be sealed for life i'd still service it at least every 50 or 100k. It can only do it good.

krzysiek · 04-11-2012, 01:22 AM

Thanks Boss.

Do you know How much trouble and cost it would be to add those extra clutch packs that the box is missing? Worthwhile to ensure longevity do you think?

Know anyone who does a good job servicing these boxes? A friend who works at a Ford dealership said there is no need to do it so I'm assuming the dealership stance on it is that it doesn't need to be done. Rather get it done by someone who specialises in this type of work

Bossxr8 · 04-11-2012, 10:00 PM

I'd assume it would require the whole box to be pulled apart.

It won't need it anyway, just adding a tune won't effect it.

krzysiek · 05-11-2012, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd assume it would require the whole box to be pulled apart.

It won't need it anyway, just adding a tune won't effect it.

Hi Boss, thanks again for your replies.

Given that it is rated at 410Nm @ the fly as standard, I am thinking that with an improved intake, headers, cat-back (and possibly high flow cat) as well as a custom tune, it might net over 450Nm.

Maybe I am being too hopeful. But from the comments some people have brought up about the output capabilities of the LPi during development, it sounds like these engines are certainly capable of a lot more than factory. So essentially my only worry here is spending the money only to find out that it's making a bit too much for the box.

I am sure, like you said, that they have included some type of factor of safety in the rating of 450Nm, maybe 10% or something, but no one really knows.

I apologise if I am coming across as a stress head! Just wanting to have all my ducks in a row before I actually start giving this stuff some serious thought!

madmelon · 05-11-2012, 08:34 AM

Perhaps you haven't considered this: It's not like you drive around at 100% torque all the time. Whilst you're putting around normally, the performance modifications aren't making any difference...

krzysiek · 05-11-2012, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

Perhaps you haven't considered this: It's not like you drive around at 100% torque all the time. Whilst you're putting around normally, the performance modifications aren't making any difference...

Madmelon, as silly as it sounds, I actually wasn't considering that. I generally drive very calmly, but when there's an opportunity to put it down, it happens (obviously when safe only).

But this would only account for a small portion of the time that the box would be under full load.

Maybe I'm being too concerned, maybe not. I guess I can always go for it and if the results come back showing that it's a fair bit over 450Nm at the fly, then I can concern myself with it at that time.

dimka100 · 05-11-2012, 01:35 PM

When tuning a LPG powered car be very very careful about the quality and knowledge of your tuner when it comes to tuning LPG powered vehicles!

LPG mixture varies from station to station and season to season a lot! While Ford when tuning would accommodate for all that, there is no way a tuning workshop could perform the same unless you bring them samples of every one of these mixtures. Remember its far easier to tune Petrol as the standard dictate for far more consistency of the mixtures.

krzysiek · 05-11-2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

When tuning a LPG powered car be very very careful about the quality and knowledge of your tuner when it comes to tuning LPG powered vehicles!

LPG mixture varies from station to station and season to season a lot! While Ford when tuning would accommodate for all that, there is no way a tuning workshop could perform the same unless you bring them samples of every one of these mixtures. Remember its far easier to tune Petrol as the standard dictate for far more consistency of the mixtures.

Yep, I know LPG can vary but I wasn't thinking too much about it. A lot of people seem to have XR6T's on LPG and get them tuned so is it reasonable to assume that some tuners do know what they're doing when it comes to LPG and the variability in quality/mixture?

dimka100 · 05-11-2012, 03:22 PM

The tunes you are talking about are of a far safer variety designed to mostly just convert the engine on running on LPG rather than trying to squeeze the maximum efficiency from LPG ... I seriously doubt you will find much improvement over Fords factory tune when it comes to the EcoLPI cars, the risk to me seems just not worth it (which is probably why nobody has done it yet). Personally i think there are better ways to spend 1.5K