Ford & GM co-developing 9 & 10 Speed Transmissions

[aquahead2001]

What interesting about this is the Ford transmission is for RWD use!

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-ford-...smissions.html

GM and Ford are said to be partnering on new 9- and 10-speed transmissions, reports Automotive News.



According to supply chain sources, the two companies started work on the new transmissions early this year with both transmissions still in the design phase. The two companies have agreed to develop either transmission with GM taking on the 9-speed version, while Ford will take responsibility for the development of the 10-speed transmission.

The 9-speed gearbox is being targetted for use in front-wheel drive models, while the 10-speed version is expected to be aimed at rear-wheel drive models including pickups, SUVs and performance cars. By co-developing the new transmissions, the two companies can be expected to reap significant financial savings in research and development costs.

Multi-speed transmissions have been used by a number of leading car makers in recent years. European marques including Audi and BMW offer 8-speed transmissions, while Japan’s Lexus also offers an 8-speed transmission. Chrysler offers an 8-speed transmission in its Chrysler 300 and the 2013 Ram. The main benefits of the additional gears include better refinement, as the engines don’t have to rev as high between shifts, which in turn reduces fuel consumption.

A GM spokesman confirmed that two companies have signed a memorandum of understanding “to jointly develop a variety of all-new, fuel-efficient transmissions." A Ford spokesman wouldn’t be drawn any further on the matter other than saying "We always talk to other companies including GM."

[In Focus]

I take it these are auto transmissions. Might get a bit hard finding the right cog in a manual version.

[Nic85]

Hyundai have almost completed their 10 speed transmission. I think it comes out in the Equus or Genesis next year. 10 speeds... Who'd of thunk it aye?

[Wretched]

Fiat/Chrysler have a 9speed coming out next year within their Guiletta based SUV.

[malazn mafia]

Whats more surprising than 10 gear ratios is ford and gm working together? who'd have thought. Imagine if falcons and commodores were one day just different top hats and interiors on the same chassis .

[pursuit2359]

I'm not an expert in this field, but I would have thought that the fuel economy and performance benefits of nine and ten speed automatic transmissions would be negligible compared to the eight speed transmissions already in use.

Would it be more worthwhile developing continuously variable transmissions to handle more torque? Or making double clutch transmissions smoother in their operation?

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Whats more surprising than 10 gear ratios is ford and gm working together? who'd have thought. Imagine if falcons and commodores were one day just different top hats and interiors on the same chassis .

You mean like V8 Supercars?

Originally Posted by pursuit2359

I'm not an expert in this field, but I would have thought that the fuel economy and performance benefits of nine and ten speed automatic transmissions would be negligible compared to the eight speed transmissions already in use.

Would it be more worthwhile developing continuously variable transmissions to handle more torque? Or making double clutch transmissions smoother in their operation?

Nah, CVT's use a totally different setup to a traditional automatic gearbox. They run on kind of like 2 cogs with a band attached, one small one and one big one. For this reason, they'll always have inherent problems with over acceleration etc. Modern dual clutch transmission are quite good now (well, the one in our Polo is anyway). Still not as smooth as the 5 speed auto in my 380, but it's pretty close.

[dave351cid]

Originally Posted by Nic85

You mean like V8 Supercars?



.

you beat me.


it dosnt seem that long ago that the special cars were using 3 speed autos instead of the old 2 speed boxs.
i wonder what the ultimate number of gears will be before they cant get any better ?

[jpd80]

I see it now,
Mondeo, Ecoboost 1.0 and 9-speed auto trans, 170 nm of torque giving decent acceleration and 5.0 l/100 km economy.

An ICE set up that matches some equivalent sized hybrid vehicles...

[dieseltrain79]

9 gear changes for a 110km/h speed limit ! Hehe .

Next we'll all be driving cat powered minis .

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

9 gear changes for a 110km/h speed limit ! Hehe .

Next we'll all be driving cat powered minis .

When 6-speed auto, were first mooted there was plenty of ridicule but now the fuel saving are recognised.
The 9 & 10-speed gearboxes promise up to 15 % better fuel economy compared to 6-speed autos..

The biggest assistance will be with smaller powerful engines in heavy vehicles, keeping them in their efficiency range.

Hopefully the circus moves on and servicing / repair of 6-speed autos comes way down on all those aging ZFs..

[dieseltrain79]

As a truck driver I understand the need for gears / ratios vs loads( kg ) / engine capacity .

But if going smaller capacity comes at the extra price tag of a 10k gearbox ... Keen to follow it up though .

[Falcon SXR8]

Can't wait to see the repair costs for these

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by dieseltrain79

As a truck driver I understand the need for gears / ratios vs loads( kg ) / engine capacity .

But if going smaller capacity comes at the extra price tag of a 10k gearbox ... Keen to follow it up though .

Please be aware that Ford and Gm intend sticking these 10 speed autos into their F150 and Silverado respectively,
not because they want to but because they have to as part of a strategy to stay on the right side of CAFE regulations.
The big trick is to trade your vehicle before it needs major repair like gearboxes...for obvious reasons..

[mik]

it`s good to hear ford and gm doing a joint program , i always wondered why they did`nt do something years ago when the euro /asian cars started to gain in popularity, i suspect they always saw each other as the main arch enemy.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Can't wait to see the repair costs for these

Built in obsolescence.

As long as the vast majority of these gear boxes last out the warranty period Ford and GM wouldn't really care what happens to them after that.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by mik

it`s good to hear ford and gm doing a joint program , i always wondered why they did`nt do something years ago when the euro /asian cars started to gain in popularity, i suspect they always saw each other as the main arch enemy.

Ford and GM collaborated on the 6F FWD gearbox that arrived in 2006, it was a huge success
and is still the main gearbox in FWD Ford and GM passenger and CUV applications.

A 9/10 speed auto can be built with three compounded planetary carrier sets.

[Bossxr8]

Just a matter of time before they start using autos with more gears than my mountain bike.

[Franco Cozzo]

Makes you wonder, small car with 9sp auto, it'd be shifting gears every 200 RPM.

Or you'd be able to have an insanely tall final drive ratio possible because of the extra gears.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

Can't wait to see the repair costs for these

Golfs with dual clutch boxes are starting to be a throw away proposition once the gearbox gives up the ghost.

[SteveJH]

The more ratios you add, the less efficiency you gain for each additional ratio. At some point the cost of additional ratios will outweigh the benefits.

For example, using the same total ratio spread:
5 to 6 ratios = 20% decrease in ratio gap
6 to 7 ratios = 16.6% decrease in ratio gap
7 to 8 ratios = 14.2% decrease in ratio gap
8 to 9 ratios = 12.5% decrease in ratio gap
9 to 10 ratios = 11.1% decrease in ratio gap

[bmorris]

Another article

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/551...issions-report

Mercedes-Benz kicked off a transmission war with its seven-speed auto, and Lexus upped the ante in 2007 with its eight-speed unit.

Specialist ZF followed with its own eight-speed shifter, which has featured in a wide range of Audi, BMW, Chrysler and Jaguar models.

Now, American icons Ford and GM have reportedly partnered on new nine- and 10-speed cog swappers, taking on ZF's upcoming nine-speed and a 10-speed from Hyundai.




According to US industry paper Automotive News, suppliers have quietly tipped that development of the new transmissions is in the early stages - although neither carmaker has offered any confirmation.

A GM spokesperson reportedly told the paper that discussions between the two brands are ongoing, focusing on the joint development of "a variety of all-new fuel-efficient transmissions".

The report adds that GM is expected to build the nine-speed unit, destined for front-wheel-drive models, while Ford will produce the 10-speed for rear-wheel-drive and performance models.

For now, GM is understood to be developing its own eight-speed shifter, expected to debut in a new Cadillac model in the coming year.

Ford has also been working on its own eight-speed unit, although recent reports suggest that this project has been binned in favour of the new joint venture.

[smoo]

Should be no need for bulky transfer cases with hi/lo ratio in Ford and Chev pick ups, just a direct drive to both axles with a locker.

[Charliewool]

[2011G6E]

Oh good god...just go CVT and be done with it...9 or 10 speeds? For christs sake...I wonder how much extra all the complexity adds to the cost of a vehicle?

I even saw a VW Amarok out at the Emerald VW dealer that had a huge sign on the door saying "I am now 8 speed auto!!".

I know the reasoning behind going for more and more speeds and closer and closer ratios...but why not work on a current technology like CVT's and get them working properly in all applications and all engine types instead? Would have to be cheaper than developing whole new gearboxes from scratch...

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by In Focus

I take it these are auto transmissions. Might get a bit hard finding the right cog in a manual version.

I was thinking the same thing...haha

[strobe]

Transmissions have gone the way of razors.

[TheSneakiness]

Getting a bit ridiculous now isn't it?

[BaraFGXR6]

?

S0o0o0o0 7sp manual maybe?

Nope?

Cant wait for the 1 pedal car to come out..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BaraFGXR6

?

S0o0o0o0 7sp manual maybe?

Nope?

Cant wait for the 1 pedal car to come out..

The new Porsche 911 already has a 7 speed manual.