Pioneer announces 16 layer 400gb blu ray disc

Jeeepers · 03-12-2008, 01:03 PM

The race for mass storage has just gained pace, with Pioneer showcasing the new 16 layer 400gb Blu Ray disc. It is fully compatible with most of todays players to boot. We should have it by 2010, with a 1tb version by 2013. I guess it will help with bookshelf space, as box sets like The Godfather would be on 1 disc in stead of 3 and so on.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/p...rms-compatibi/

I love techy stuff.

Fev · 03-12-2008, 01:23 PM

man thats more space then my computer! kinda useless though isnt it? i just cant imagine what you would do with all that space on one disc that you cant rewrite once you've burnt on to it although it would be good to copy your whole movie library onto hehe - and by 2013 they're gonna have a 1 terrabyte disc! crazy!

flappist · 03-12-2008, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

man thats more space then my computer! kinda useless though isnt it? i just cant imagine what you would do with all that space on one disc that you cant rewrite once you've burnt on to it although it would be good to copy your whole movie library onto hehe - and by 2013 they're gonna have a 1 terrabyte disc! crazy!

Ah so you understand as much about IT as you do about motor vehicles. Archive backups of commercial storage maybe?

Are you aware that computers can be used for other things besides constantly posting mindless dribble on an internet forum?

Silly question really.........

Jeeepers · 03-12-2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

man thats more space then my computer! kinda useless though isnt it? i just cant imagine what you would do with all that space on one disc that you cant rewrite once you've burnt on to it although it would be good to copy your whole movie library onto hehe - and by 2013 they're gonna have a 1 terrabyte disc! crazy!

Hmmmm...... Well if you read the article in the link, it also states that a re-writeable version will be available. So this media has many applications, beyond the obvious.

Fev · 03-12-2008, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Ah so you understand as much about IT as you do about motor vehicles. Archive backups of commercial storage maybe?

Are you aware that computers can be used for other things besides constantly posting mindless dribble on an internet forum?

Silly question really.........

Wouldn't it be easier just using hard drives for that? much easier to access but yes i can see it's a good space saver.

and my understanding of re-writeable discs was just blank discs you can burn things on to - i admit i havnt looked into it that much as i rarely use them anyway

Rodp · 03-12-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

Wouldn't it be easier just using hard drives for that? much easier to access but yes i can see it's a good space saver.

and my understanding of re-writeable discs was just blank discs you can burn things on to - i admit i havnt looked into it that much as i rarely use them anyway

Are you serious?

Mean time before failure of a hard disk is roughly 3 years. Current DVD technology is said to have an archival life of ~100 years. Unsure of this new 16 layer technology as it's the first I've heard of it. That's not even taking into account the cost of hard drive storage vs DVD media storage.

Depending on the speed of the re-writables, it could be a viable alternative to tape for backup of large data stores. We've certainly needed one for a long time.

Fev · 03-12-2008, 02:13 PM

that was something else i was factoring in - Is it just as fast to access the information on these discs as it would with say USB 2.0?

ch33z1l · 03-12-2008, 02:30 PM

Another factor, with USB harddrives, backups can be scheduled to run automatically, whereas CD/DVD storage is a manual exercise, but as Rob said, CD/DVD has a longer lifespan.

asizzy · 03-12-2008, 02:31 PM

Don't know about you guys but i'll take that chick who's holding the Blu-Ray Disc.

On another note, would the current Blu-Ray Burners be able to burn on this 16-Layer Disc? Or does one have to buy a 16 Layer Blu-Ray Disc Burner? I wonder how much the Burners are going to be if you have to buy this special 16layer Burner?

RG · 03-12-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

that was something else i was factoring in - Is it just as fast to access the information on these discs as it would with say USB 2.0?

It would make my life a hell of a lot easier if I could back up CCTV footage to a blu-ray disc of that size compared to a 700mb CD or a DVD.

See there is another use for computers.....

Fev · 03-12-2008, 02:55 PM

How large does your storage need to be to back up your CCTV? how long do you keep it for? a week/fortnight or indefinately?? a 500gig portable harddrive would suit that well wouldnt it? - much easier to acess, delete, file and store the data

RG · 03-12-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

How large does your storage need to be to back up your CCTV? how long do you keep it for? a week/fortnight or indefinately?? a 500gig portable harddrive would suit that well wouldnt it? - much easier to acess, delete, file and store the data

A portable hard drive would be a pain in the.....

If I have to send it somewhere a disc is easier to use and takes up less space.

Fev · 03-12-2008, 02:59 PM

ok fair enough - just depends on what applications your using it for

Perana · 03-12-2008, 03:00 PM

Nice will be very useful for data archiving. Though tape is still very widely used anyway.

Even still 400GB isn't that much anymore, most companies have masses and masses of information, and all this needs to be backed up, however it is still quite impressive and 1TB even more so.

It probably wouldn't be any faster than a USB HardDrive but USB is rubbish for data transfer anyway.

asizzy · 03-12-2008, 03:01 PM

Stop farken arguing. Theres Adavantages and theres disadvantages for both media Types. This thread was meant to display the technological advancements from your normal DVD capacity to Blu Ray and now this 16 Layer Disc that can supposedly hold 400Gigs worth. Now stop acting like little children.

RG · 03-12-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asizzy

Stop farken arguing. Theres Adavantages and theres disadvantages for both media Types. This thread was meant to display the technological advancements from your normal DVD capacity to Blu Ray and now this 16 Layer Disc that can supposedly hold 400Gigs worth. Now stop acting like little children.

As soon as you stop avoiding the swear filter.

ch33z1l · 03-12-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asizzy

Don't know about you guys but i'll take that chick who's holding the Blu-Ray Disc.

On another note, would the current Blu-Ray Burners be able to burn on this 16-Layer Disc? Or does one have to buy a 16 Layer Blu-Ray Disc Burner? I wonder how much the Burners are going to be if you have to buy this special 16layer Burner?

Any Blueray burner should be able to burn to the 16layer disk. Much the same as burning to Dual Layer DVD's.

davez104 · 03-12-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

man thats more space then my computer! kinda useless though isnt it? i just cant imagine what you would do with all that space on one disc that you cant rewrite once you've burnt on to it although it would be good to copy your whole movie library onto hehe - and by 2013 they're gonna have a 1 terrabyte disc! crazy!

Back when 1.4 megabyte floppy disks where the standard, they probably said the same thing when 700 megabyte CD's where introduced. TV's are coming out in higher and higher resolutions these days so people are demanding higher resolution from movies etc. All that extra info takes up space, won't be long before they won't fit a movie on a standard DVD.

Dave.

Jack91 · 03-12-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davez104

Back when 1.4 megabyte floppy disks where the standard, they probably said the same thing when 700 megabyte CD's where introduced. TV's are coming out in higher and higher resolutions these days so people are demanding higher resolution from movies etc. All that extra info takes up space, won't be long before they won't fit a movie on a standard DVD.
Dave.

I though that was already happening to movies with extended scenes and special features. Even 2 years ago movie dvd's were 6 or 7gb. I really doubt that a movie would need 400gb though. I really hope they bring out 100 200 and 300gb discs with the 400. Will be interesting to see what they charge for them too.

SB076 · 03-12-2008, 05:29 PM

I heard that Ford Forums have already put a deposit down on the first 1 terrabyte disk and apparently its required to store Fev's posts

I remember buying a computer with a 1 Gb hard drive - I was told I would never fill it in a lifetime and I could install as many games as I want - now people complain when 1 Gb isnt enough for a mobile

Rodp · 03-12-2008, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fev

that was something else i was factoring in - Is it just as fast to access the information on these discs as it would with say USB 2.0?

Who knows right now... I'd suggest the difference would be negligable depending on the information you're storing on either.

Rodp · 03-12-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ch33z1l

Another factor, with USB harddrives, backups can be scheduled to run automatically, whereas CD/DVD storage is a manual exercise, but as Rob said, CD/DVD has a longer lifespan.

Rob? I'll accept being called Rob, Ron, Ross and even Roger verbally.. but on a printed medium?!

You're looking small scale. Lets face it, sod all 'tiny' users backup.

Business scale where backup is mandatory (I've observed businesses go under because their backup regime sucked after a brutal crash), USB backup is absolutely out of the question - it's resigned to home users.

I can see a personal benefit of DVD storage 100 times that of which I enjoy today but at an enterprise level, I would love to see a phase out of tape technology which this advancement would well and truly spell obsolescence.

Rodp · 03-12-2008, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

I heard that Ford Forums have already put a deposit down on the first 1 terrabyte disk and apparently its required to store Fev's posts

I remember buying a computer with a 1 Gb hard drive - I was told I would never fill it in a lifetime and I could install as many games as I want - now people complain when 1 Gb isnt enough for a mobile

The newer generation.

I remember buying a computer before hard drives even existed. That was well before a pointy headed nerd told me that 640k was more that I would ever need.

IIRC, the first hard drive I ever bough was about 10MB!

Lukeyson · 03-12-2008, 09:59 PM

nice nice. With technology like UHDTV (7680x4320 res) no doubt heading into home stuff in a decade or more, they will need to start getting media with stupidly high capacity (by todays standards)

Daymoe · 03-12-2008, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Are you serious?

Mean time before failure of a hard disk is roughly 3 years. Current DVD technology is said to have an archival life of ~100 years. Unsure of this new 16 layer technology as it's the first I've heard of it. That's not even taking into account the cost of hard drive storage vs DVD media storage.

Depending on the speed of the re-writables, it could be a viable alternative to tape for backup of large data stores. We've certainly needed one for a long time.

Average MTBF on HDDs is 100,000 hours, 24 hours in a day, 365 days in a year:

24x365 = 8760 hours = 1 year

100,000 hours = 11 years.

Can be used as an archive without having to worry about MTBF time if you only write to it, then remove it and store it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

I heard that Ford Forums have already put a deposit down on the first 1 terrabyte disk and apparently its required to store Fev's posts

I remember buying a computer with a 1 Gb hard drive - I was told I would never fill it in a lifetime and I could install as many games as I want - now people complain when 1 Gb isnt enough for a mobile

Bill Gates also once said we'd never need more than 640KB of RAM. That really backfired didn't it LOL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Nice will be very useful for data archiving. Though tape is still very widely used anyway.

Even still 400GB isn't that much anymore, most companies have masses and masses of information, and all this needs to be backed up, however it is still quite impressive and 1TB even more so.

It probably wouldn't be any faster than a USB HardDrive but USB is rubbish for data transfer anyway.

Tape is a pain in the pooper because you can't randomly access data off it like you can with CDs, it has to read through everything up until that file.

Jeeepers · 04-12-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

I remember buying a computer with a 1 Gb hard drive - I was told I would never fill it in a lifetime and I could install as many games as I want - now people complain when 1 Gb isnt enough for a mobile

Hehehe... My first computer was an Amiga 500, with a 20meg hard drive (XT Drive in an A590) and only ever half full. My first pc had a 1.2gb drive, and I was always trimming the fat.

This Blu Ray technology has certainly pushed the boundaries of the humble optical disc. As far as other layer options goes, I dare say there will be variants. The Blu Ray format is 25gb per layer. A 100gb test disc was around some months ago (in the lab).

Jeeepers · 04-12-2008, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8fella

nice nice. With technology like UHDTV (7680x4320 res) no doubt heading into home stuff in a decade or more, they will need to start getting media with stupidly high capacity (by todays standards)

How much for your spider?

SB076 · 04-12-2008, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8fella

nice nice. With technology like UHDTV (7680x4320 res) no doubt heading into home stuff in a decade or more, they will need to start getting media with stupidly high capacity (by todays standards)

Can the human eye actually see the benefit of that sort of resolution? I have a 1080P TV and watched a Bluray movie, it looks great very lifelike, what benefit would 7680 x 4320 res give (could we see it) I am only talking about home use - obviously higher resoltuion could be beneficial for some industries (military, medical I presume)

Rodp · 04-12-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Average MTBF on HDDs is 100,000 hours, 24 hours in a day, 365 days in a year:

24x365 = 8760 hours = 1 year

100,000 hours = 11 years.

Can be used as an archive without having to worry about MTBF time if you only write to it, then remove it and store it.

Are you going on manufacturers inflated claims or real world data? MTBF on several storage products that I service has been calculated to ~3 years across several vendors drives. It's widely regarded that drive manufacturers stated MTBF claims are bogus. Removing and storing a functioning drive also doesn't stop the MTBF 'clock', in fact it can substantially lower it.

Using a hard drive as an archival medium is not only impractical for anything of substantial size, it's ludicrously expensive per MB.

Daymoe · 04-12-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Are you going on manufacturers inflated claims or real world data? MTBF on several storage products that I service has been calculated to ~3 years across several vendors drives. It's widely regarded that drive manufacturers stated MTBF claims are bogus. Removing and storing a functioning drive also doesn't stop the MTBF 'clock', in fact it can substantially lower it.

Using a hard drive as an archival medium is not only impractical for anything of substantial size, it's ludicrously expensive per MB.

If you have a few TB of Data? What are you going to use? That 400GB Bluray is coming in another 3 years, that's a long way away, and by then HDDs will probably be reaching 5TB+ and the amount of data being stored everywhere is going to be insanely huge.

a 500GB HDD isn't much going by desktop equipment, if you happen to use SCSI drives, well yeah you have a very valid point.