P Platers - what are you taught?

colossus · 31-01-2007, 07:26 AM

Question to all recent red P platers - what are you actually taught in your lessons, specifically around motorways?

This comes after my trip home from work last night. The entire farken M2 was chocked up with traffic, I slowly made my way to the front after 40 minutes and what do I find? A newish Corolla with red P's, male driver, 3 male passengers, sitting in the right hand overtaking lane. The ENTIRE freeway (both lanes) in front of them was empty, not a car in sight. They were sitting right on their limit of 90km/h (the freeway limit is 100, most people do 120), so due to the difference in speed they had effectivly created a mobile road block.

I witnessed about 20 cars overtake them on the left whilst 5 others that I witnessed pulled around them into the breakdown lane to overtake and cut them off (such was the level of frustration). I came up behind them gave a quick flash of high beem which did nothing, so was forced to overtake on the left - as I got level I beeped my horn (not agressivley) just to get their attention. The driver looked across at me and I pointed with my hand to the left lane. He continued to look at me and raised both hands in the air in a guesture of "what do you want, I am doing nothing wrong". I drove off shaking my head.

Now add this to the red P plater who went straight through a red light just before the M2 - they were not hooning - rather they failed to pay attention and even notice the set of traffic lights. Straight through before locking it up and stopping on the other side of the intersection blocking traffic - WTF!

I realise there are plenty of other seriously bad drivers on the roads who arn't red P platers, but it just really got me thinking - is it their fault (the P platers) or are they being taught the correct rules?

I didn't make this to bag out P platers (plenty of other threads to do that), just had to vent this out of my system and see what they are taught.

**Polyal** · 31-01-2007, 07:32 AM

Exactly what you guys were taught when you were on your P's. Not much, you only learn from driving, no text book is going to help.

Perhaps the only difference is attitude.....

nat_daly · 31-01-2007, 07:34 AM

the bit about the p platers in the overtaking lane i can refer too.. It is one of my pet hates, when u go to over take and there is a car travelling at 90kmph, however its not just p platers that do it.. i see it all the time, it frustrates alot of people, its not that hard.. stay left!

HLC · 31-01-2007, 08:49 AM

The M2 gives me the shits.

i have to travel on there to go to work on weekends. i was stuck behind a suzuki small 4wd thing with an indian family doing 80 in the overtaking lane, sitting parrallel with a truck. causing a mobile roadblock.

after a few km's and me repeatedly flashing my lights (this is in the 100 zone) and them doing nothing, about 20 cars behind me and myself just rounded them up in the bus lane. after that happened, they were still sitting there.

this is a common occurence on the M2. i dont know what it is about the Hills District, but the drivers ******* suck.

in contrast, on the M4, it's rare to see a p-plater sticking to their limit! Pretty much the only people that overtake me are red or green p-platers. its classic. (i'm a green p-plater btw)

4.9 EF Futura · 31-01-2007, 08:57 AM

So long as everyone can reverse parallel park tho, right?

5tumpy · 31-01-2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

Question to all recent red P platers - what are you actually taught in your lessons, specifically around motorways?

This comes after my trip home from work last night. The entire farken M2 was chocked up with traffic, I slowly made my way to the front after 40 minutes and what do I find? A newish Corolla with red P's, male driver, 3 male passengers, sitting in the right hand overtaking lane. The ENTIRE freeway (both lanes) in front of them was empty, not a car in sight. They were sitting right on their limit of 90km/h (the freeway limit is 100, most people do 120), so due to the difference in speed they had effectivly created a mobile road block.

I witnessed about 20 cars overtake them on the left whilst 5 others that I witnessed pulled around them into the breakdown lane to overtake and cut them off (such was the level of frustration). I came up behind them gave a quick flash of high beem which did nothing, so was forced to overtake on the left - as I got level I beeped my horn (not agressivley) just to get their attention. The driver looked across at me and I pointed with my hand to the left lane. He continued to look at me and raised both hands in the air in a guesture of "what do you want, I am doing nothing wrong". I drove off shaking my head.

Now add this to the red P plater who went straight through a red light just before the M2 - they were not hooning - rather they failed to pay attention and even notice the set of traffic lights. Straight through before locking it up and stopping on the other side of the intersection blocking traffic - WTF!

I realise there are plenty of other seriously bad drivers on the roads who arn't red P platers, but it just really got me thinking - is it their fault (the P platers) or are they being taught the correct rules?

I didn't make this to bag out P platers (plenty of other threads to do that), just had to vent this out of my system and see what they are taught.

Asian P Plater perhaps? I know it sounds racist, but I mean nothing by it, my best mate is a bus driver for Sydney Buses, spends a good chunk of his shifts in and around the city, and he's got a million stories similar to this, 99% are asians...

P Platers are not "taught" anything on their P's. The learning is experience. L platers are taught to keep left unless overtaking, especially on the freeway.

ON_DUBS · 31-01-2007, 09:02 AM

I had a similar experience on the highway yesterday, after getting to the front of the 'mobile road block' there was a small car on P Plates full of people.

I'm still on my P Plates myself, due to get my full licence in a couple months.

It's pretty ridiculous to set a speed limit for P Platers. If I'm on the highway, I do the highway limit.

**Polyal** · 31-01-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

So long as everyone can reverse parallel park tho, right?

Funny story there.

I despise reverse parallel parking. Usually Ill just drive by and hunt for another park, doesn't matter if its right in front of where I want to go, I just could not be bothered.

Until my GF's Dad stayed in town for a couple of weeks. He would take us out to Dinner and naturally, he would point out the parking spots.

Every single damn time I was forced to reverse parallel park, I couldn't tell him that I dont do them because I have a reputation as "the car guy". And what kind of car guy cant reverse park.

So, I did it, wasn't perfect but hey, considering I never do them it was alright. I think Ive done no more than 20 reverse parks in my life, 15 of them were in those two weeks.

Atleast I can do them now without worrying..LOL

GXL078 · 31-01-2007, 09:03 AM

Maybe they learnt to drive overseas where they were taught to keep right. Who knows what they are taught because they can get the handbook in any language these days.

Schwinn · 31-01-2007, 09:15 AM

I've got a better one...

A more mature driver in his Toorak Tractor (I'm in Melbourne)
We're heading to the airport on the Tulla Freeway, truck in the left hand lane, doing about 80, I indicate to pull around, the TT scoots up behind, honks me out(I'd checked all my mirrors) and gets up beside the truck and slows down to 80 as well..
I know for sure that he wasn't anywhere near when I started indicating, so he wasn't creeping up slowly.

I get into the right lane to overtake the truck and get stuck behind the silly TT..

now more traffic is banking up behind me and the're getting impatient..

I flashed and honked after the cars behind had done the same to me and the silly ole TT slows down even more...

I think he thought he was teaching me a lesson, I was in my ED Fairmont that had Tickford Rims, Tinted Windows, a slightly lower profile than the norm and a spoiler..

Eventually, he slows down enough that I can go back into the left lane, go around him and then overtake the truck as well, as all the ppl behind had to as well, he was keeping that right lane all to himself..

Why do they do it???

The one thing that really annoys me is that he was actually breaking the law by being in the right lane without overtaking, but if anyone had an accidingle, he would have sworn black and blue that he was doing nothing wrong..

Cheers

John

Tommo224 · 31-01-2007, 10:16 AM

man it shits me when people do that..

i was taught pretty early to keep to the left and all that jazz.. i only ever sit in the right lane when im doing the speed limit (or over lol).. then i usually merge back in after ive passed cars and there is a fair distance ahead of me and there are cars behind me..

im on my greens now, whenever i was on the highway id do the highway speed limits.. because, it is dangerous doing 10-20 under the speed limit when there are so many people doing, or travelling over, the speed limit..

at 90kmh, people are catching up to you at around 20-30kmh on most highways.. if they arent expecting you to be going slower, they have to brake or change lanes.. i think its more a hazard to be travelling slower in sitations where people are doing speeds of 100-120kmh..

But so often i come across people doing well under the speed limit in the right hand lane.. honestly, i more often see full licenced drivers than p-platers breaking laws and getting in peoples ways.. because, i guess, once you get your fulls.. your instantly the greatest driver ever!

its the same with fricken escalators at train stations.. people standing there blocking it, while there are banks of people trying to get to the top.. the curtious thing to do anywhere is keep to the left...

Powdered Toast Man · 31-01-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAIRMONT4.0

I had a similar experience on the highway yesterday, after getting to the front of the 'mobile road block' there was a small car on P Plates full of people.

I'm still on my P Plates myself, due to get my full licence in a couple months.

It's pretty ridiculous to set a speed limit for P Platers. If I'm on the highway, I do the highway limit.

Im with you. I really dont understand what the premise behind the P plate speed limits is. Down here in Vic P platers dont have their own speed limits (well unless its changed since I had my Ps 7 years ago) unless you count the ones who think their own personal speed limits are 20kmh above everyone elses. How can you learn to drive with the rest of the traffic if you have a different set of rules than them.

:

photn · 31-01-2007, 11:06 AM

just to let you all know incase some one starts saying they dont keep left. The Only Time that you are required to Keep Left unless Overtaking is when the Posted Speed Limit is OVER 80kmh. Underthat. they can be in whatever lane they require. and sometimes you have to look at what experience some of these Red p platers have had. SOME have Never been on the Highway. and Tests these days dont take you onto the HIghway and test you.......In july it will.......So just be concious of other peoples position. take into account they may not have had that training and they dont know better. the NSW gov in JULY are instituting new laws and more stringent Tests as you all know, which includes Highway Driving and what not.

photn · 31-01-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Maybe they learnt to drive overseas where they were taught to keep right. Who knows what they are taught because they can get the handbook in any language these days.

(no offence intended) but if you come from Asia ie China and you have your "licence" from there. you have to do an Australian Test. now if you have learnt all your bad habbits from over there then of course you are going to bring them here. Also what makes it worse is that the written Test can be done in another language. now im all for multiculturalism and all. But come one. If you cant speek or read English then why the hell are you trying to get and Australian Licence. i think thats the Problem with these "asians" as stated. I think they dont really understand how to drive properly or obey the road rules. They just dont simply UNDERSTAND......

b2tf · 31-01-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Every single damn time I was forced to reverse parallel park, I couldn't tell him that I dont do them because I have a reputation as "the car guy". And what kind of car guy cant reverse park.

I know what you mean, I get put in that position all the time.

"What do you mean you dont know?!"

31-01-2007, 11:35 AM

P-Platers aren't taught a damn thing about freeways and highways. Alot has to do with the 80kmh limit on thier L's and 90kmh for P1. Is just downright dangerous having regular drivers doing 110, truck drivers doing 95-100, red P-platers doing 90 and Ls doing 80kmh.

It also get indimidating doing 80kmh whilst on your L's for both the learner and the supervisor, hence, if there is freeway travel involved, the learner does not get to drive.

When I was on my Ls and Red Ps I hated doing 80 or 90kmh. I refused to keep to the Ls speed limit and went up to 105kmh where the speed limit allowed and conditions pretty much perfect. That was also the time I saw some of the most dangerous driving. Ie overtaking/undertaking someone doing way below the speed limit, then seeing the L plate in the back window, speeding up and cutting me off whilst trying to merge back in as the lane was ending. The whole way up the Pacific Hwy.

On my L's I ended up doing about 160 hours, (only recorded the first 70), 42 hours of that was freeway/highway long distance travel, to QLD and regional places around NSW.

On my Red Ps I usually kept to 90kmh in a 100 zone but 110 I brought it up to 100. Common sense regarding safety over "rules".

And for the record I'm not saying I was above/better the rules or I was a better driver than anyone else at that stage of licencing. I just observed the conditions and drove accordingly.

4.9 EF Futura · 31-01-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

just to let you all know incase some one starts saying they dont keep left. The Only Time that you are required to Keep Left unless Overtaking is when the Posted Speed Limit is OVER 80kmh. Underthat. they can be in whatever lane they require.

Agree but would make the following comments.

- Keep left unless overtaking applied when limit > 80 AND if there's signposting saying keep left unless overtaking.

- GOOD PRACTICE (no, im not saying you HAVE to...) is to keep as far left as practicle. Keep to the left lane if you can and keep to the left side of that lane to the best you can.

There's a lot of ways to collectively improve our driving that arent spelled out in the black and white letters of the law.

NC_GHIA · 31-01-2007, 11:40 AM

Can't blame me I always stay left...

What I hate is on two laned roads when people travel side by side slowly and you can't overtake...

MITCHAY · 31-01-2007, 11:42 AM

Not a lot. I only got lessons because I wanted something to do and rather than do a one off test, I could just walk straight in and get my licence on my birthday.

My instructor fell asleep on the final drive.

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

just to let you all know incase some one starts saying they dont keep left. The Only Time that you are required to Keep Left unless Overtaking is when the Posted Speed Limit is OVER 80kmh

If there's a "Keep left unless overtaking" sign you have to keep left regardless of speed. I have never encountered these signs in any under 80km/h zones though.

Even if it's not breaking the law it is common courtesy. I had a Honda CRV pull in front of me in the overtaking lane whilst I was overtaking everyone else.

Yeah he wanted to overtake aswell but I wanted to take everyone as they were holding me up and couldn't do a decent speed on bends and I was doing about 140km/h when he pulled in front of me. Lucky these 4 pots wipe off speed quick!

This **** box couldn't even do the speed limit whilst overtaking! Would it of been hard to let me pass him first?

If I know a car is going faster than me, I wait for them to pass first before I proceed to pull into the overtaking lane.

31-01-2007, 11:43 AM

Anyone for a group buy of road rage flipbooks?

merlin · 31-01-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

- GOOD PRACTICE (no, im not saying you HAVE to...) is to keep as far left as practicle. Keep to the left lane if you can and keep to the left side of that lane to the best you can.
.

Exactly. Not many people do it though. Pfft common courtesy...whats that?

XRCISM · 31-01-2007, 01:06 PM

I can't stand anyone in the right hand lane .... don't you all know that it's reserved for me? :Reverend:

This is what really gets me mad .... I'll be cruising on the speed limit on the freeway with the cruise control on and there always seems to be someone who wants to pull in front of me or just plod along in the right hand lane. Screws up my momentum ..... coast - resume - coast - resume!!
What is so hard about keeping left .... and if you are going to overtake - don't pull out in front of approaching cars - wait for a decent gap.

I frigin hate it when there's nothing behind you but people just have to pull out of a side street there and then ... and YOU end up having to use your brakes cause they didn't want to wait the extra 10 seconds to go into the gap that's behind you.

:

4Vman · 31-01-2007, 01:12 PM

2 issues: first off maybe they were taught correctly but forget how they were taught or just plain refuse to follow curtious safe driving techniques?
Secondly assuming they were not taught correctly who teaches P Platers how to drive in the first place... i think a fair bit of the poor "behavioural" on road issues lie there....

MITCHAY · 31-01-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

2 issues: first off maybe they were taught correctly but forget how they were taught or just plain refuse to follow curtious safe driving techniques?
Secondly assuming they were not taught correctly who teaches P Platers how to drive in the first place... i think a fair bit of the poor "behavioural" on road issues lie there....

Most instructors teach you to pass a test (or log book depending where you live). They do as much as legally required and follow the compentecies. Nothing more and nothing less.

I learnt way more from my parents than I ever did from an instructor. I pretty much just went with the instructor to "mark off and **** off" as my parents did a much better job for free.

Like I said my instructor actually fell asleep.

:

I don't whether that is a bad thing or reasurrance that my driving is excellent.

XR06T · 31-01-2007, 01:22 PM

i would like to hear from ppl who do these kinds of things, because i cant understand how ppl can be paying so little attention on the roads..

****es me off to the max when i see ppl in their own little world oblivious to the rest of the world.. sure i go a little over the speed limit but is that as dangerous as pulling out infront of ppl, or causing major delays?

PS i once sat behing this one guy in the right lane of the freeway with no other traffic on the road for at least 10k's, just to see if he would notice me.. you guessed it, not a chance. once they get undertaken by 3 or so cars they start to get the message, but as for just paying attention because thats what you should do on the road? no way!!

Powdered Toast Man · 31-01-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

- GOOD PRACTICE (no, im not saying you HAVE to...) is to keep as far left as practicle. Keep to the left lane if you can and keep to the left side of that lane to the best you can.

I understand where theyre coming from with this but I think it is a bit irrelevent. I know its a safety precaution for when stuff coming along the other way on a 2 way road drifts a bit into you lane etc.
But you get people hugging the left too much and driving in the gutter. You definately dont want to go hiting the gutter while doing 80kmh, or drifting onto the shoulder and losing control trying to bring it back on the road.

As long as the lane is only 1 car wide, not like some roads that could be dual lane but have no lane markings, I sit in the middle of my lane. You have to be watchful of objects on both sides of you not just the right.

Totally agree with staying in the left lane unless overtaking though no matter what the speed limit. I hate the people who waft along in the right hand lane. I dont mind if theyre doing over the speed limit even if I want to go faster and overtake them. Hopefully they move out of my way when they feel they can otherwise I just pass them on the left.

4Vman · 31-01-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Most instructors teach you to pass a test (or log book depending where you live). They do as much as legally required and follow the compentecies. Nothing more and nothing less.

I learnt way more from my parents than I ever did from an instructor. I pretty much just went with the instructor to "mark off and **** off" as my parents did a much better job for free.

Like I said my instructor actually fell asleep.

:

I don't whether that is a bad thing or reasurrance that my driving is excellent.

I would suggest 90% of the driver "teaching" should/does come from parents, maybe some parents see teaching their kids to drive as a chore? and as such the quality of their instruction is poor?
That said ive been a passenger with many P platers and also older drivers who have a natural dislike for driving in the left lane or "keeping left"... and will continually drive in the right lane regardless of what's behind them, ive questioned them for "road blocking" the right lane and their ressponse has been "i hate driving in the left lane, it doesnt feel comfortable"..

From a personal perspective in built up areas i prefer the right lane simply because it gives you far more options should you need to take "evasive" action against someone pulling out from a driveway or side street, or coming at you head on, you get a better view of the road and roadside, but i will move over when traffic approaches from behind.

mUTHA · 31-01-2007, 01:39 PM

in peak hr i sit in the right lane as it moves faster and to be honest i dont mind sitting a lil above te limit to keep traffic flowing... the left lane if theres an accident its raining or im not in a hurry...

but over here in WA we are taught to keep left unless overtaking. thats the wway its meant to be but not always the case

coupdy do · 31-01-2007, 03:16 PM

Don't ever move to victoria the old migrants that have been here for 40 years still can't drive and the new ones are even worse (three point turns on a bridge, stopping to change lanes on a freeway, coming off a roundabout and driving up the wrong way for 1km before relizing it) The RTA/ Vic roads have allot to answer to
Did anyone see the story about the chinese drivers on SBS?

4.9 EF Futura · 31-01-2007, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8GLI

I understand where theyre coming from with this but I think it is a bit irrelevent. I know its a safety precaution for when stuff coming along the other way on a 2 way road drifts a bit into you lane etc.
But you get people hugging the left too much and driving in the gutter. You definately dont want to go hiting the gutter while doing 80kmh, or drifting onto the shoulder and losing control trying to bring it back on the road.

As long as the lane is only 1 car wide, not like some roads that could be dual lane but have no lane markings, I sit in the middle of my lane. You have to be watchful of objects on both sides of you not just the right.

Agree completely mate.

I think the key is the "when practicle" and "whenever possible" type wording. Obviously dont want to be hugging the gutter when there's kids around or risk putting left tyres in the dirt on a road with no sealed edge.