G6e turbo boost limit safe tune

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 10:28 AM

hello all I have recently upgraded my g6e. I have a list of mods intercooler, injectors , fuel pump, valve springs, 4" exhaust, cold air intake battery relocation and flash box all tuned by dynamite performance. Making 355rwks. Turbo is boosting at 22psi down low and tappers off at high revs.
Is this tune going to blow anything. I have mixed advice saying 1 week the turbo will blow ext.
Factory turbo
98 pump fuel
Hub dyno

pyrex · 27-06-2020, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy11

hello all I have recently upgraded my g6e. I have a list of mods intercooler, injectors , fuel pump, valve springs, 4" exhaust, cold air intake battery relocation and flash box all tuned by dynamite performance. Making 355rwks. Turbo is boosting at 22psi down low and tappers off at high revs.
Is this tune going to blow anything. I have mixed advice saying 1 week the turbo will blow ext.

What turbo?
What fuel?
Hub dyno?

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 10:44 AM

Factory turbo
98 pump fuel
Hub dyno

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Romulus · 27-06-2020, 10:55 AM

Need a graph with AFR. You want no higher than 0.82 lambda at full load.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 10:56 AM

I just attached the dyno graph

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Romulus · 27-06-2020, 10:58 AM

Yep. It's missing the AFR graph.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 10:59 AM

Bugger. I'll ask for 1

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pyrex · 27-06-2020, 10:59 AM

Can you post a pic of the Dyno sheet?.
22 psi?, seems like they have no control over the boost at all.
Boost must be dropping like mad as the revs rise, as there is no way the 53mm stock turbo can support that boost.
Turbo speed would be high and efficiency would be shocking ( heat pump).
Do you have a ported rear housing?
I would not feel safe boosting a tune like that
Most competent tuners don't go much past 16 psi on the baby turbo on 98.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrex

Can you post a pic of the Dyno sheet?.

22 psi?, seems like they have no control over the boost at all.

Boost must be dropping like mad as the revs rise, as there is no way the 53mm stock turbo can support that boost.

Turbo speed would be high and efficiency would be shocking ( heat pump).

Do you have a ported rear housing?

I would not feel safe boosting a tune like that

Most competent tuners don't go much past 16 psi on the baby turbo on 98.

This the graph thry gave me

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Romulus · 27-06-2020, 11:06 AM

Need more info, probably the most critical piece of info is missing, AFR. If the engine is maintaining 0.78-0.82 Lambda then there's probably not much to worry about. The small turbo is likely operating out of it's efficiency range, it's be interesting to see what the WG duty cycle is, probably close to 100%.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 11:08 AM

I believe its at 100duty because its dropping as it needs more air up high in the rev range. I will need to ask for the afr

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pyrex · 27-06-2020, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy11

I believe its at 100duty because its dropping as it needs more air up high in the rev range. I will need to ask for the afr

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Have you got the gate ported on the rear housing?

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrex

Have you got the gate ported on the rear housing?

No just what ever was on it from factory

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pyrex · 27-06-2020, 11:20 AM

That's your problem , 4 inch exhaust with a standard gate port = no boost control.
I would fix your hardware so you can control boost to a safe level.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrex

That's your problem , 4 inch exhaust with a standard gate port = no boost control.

I would fix your hardware so you can control boost to a safe level.

The boost appears very steady. Just like graph the boost gauge shows the same psi through the rev range. The tuner said it will boost high initially then drop off as the small factory turbo can't push enough efficiently to keep the 22psi all the way through.

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pyrex · 27-06-2020, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy11

The boost appears very steady. Just like graph the boost gauge shows the same psi through the rev range. The tuner said it will boost high initially then drop off as the small factory turbo can't push enough efficiently to keep the 22psi all the way through.

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Ok , if your happy with the tiny stock turbo pushing 22psi in the midrange on 98 .
Also boost is steady for about 1000rpm ( 3300 to 4300) then drops. At 5500 boost is 13 , at 6000 its probably 10.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrex

Ok , if your happy with the tiny stock turbo pushing 22psi in the midrange on 98 .

Also boost is steady for about 1000rpm ( 3300 to 4300) then drops. At 5500 boost is 13 , at 6000 its probably 10.

Yeah its at 10psi at full rpms. I do want a bigger turbo to keep the psi high all the way through. However the current set up i hope won't hurt anything.

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Romulus · 27-06-2020, 11:58 AM

The turbo is overspeeding. It's a matter of when, not if, it will fail.
I'm seeing around 45% duty cycle for my GTX3582R, using a 15psi Turbosmart wastegate actuator to get 21psi boost.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 12:02 PM

Why would a tuner set up a vehicle that is just going to blow my turbo? He did say it won't hurt the turbo. I also don't understand how a turbo is spinning faster than ts meant to. There is only so much air from the exhaust that can get through. Is it possible the tuner has set the boost over what the turbo is capable of and the turbo just works harder to get there?

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Romulus · 27-06-2020, 12:09 PM

Your tuner should have told you the pros and cons of spinning a turbo outside its efficiency range. Your solution is simple, upgrade the turbo, the Gen2 GTX3582R is popular, or perhaps a GTX3584RS. Then there's PTE and BW turbo's that make an easy 400-500rwkw as well.

You also need to understand the concept of volume. A GTX3582R will flow more volume of air than the stock 3576, even though they're reading the same pressure.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romulus

Your tuner should have told you the pros and cons of spinning a turbo outside its efficiency range. Your solution is simple, upgrade the turbo, the Gen2 GTX3582R is popular, or perhaps a GTX3584RS. Then there's PTE and BW turbo's that make an easy 400-500rwkw as well.

You also need to understand the concept of volume. A GTX3582R will flow more volume of air than the stock 3576, even though they're reading the same pressure.

Volume makes sense. The 83r can push 22psi and be working at 50% duty cycle. Where is mine is maxed out. Didn't think maxing it out would be bad for it. Certainly over boosting is. I didn't think 22psi was over its limits. He did say for the 82r fitted and tuned it will cost 4grand and it will push 400rwks with my set up. Then is that maxing out that turbo also?

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Franco Cozzo · 27-06-2020, 12:16 PM

Dynomite performance are a reputable tuner and Barra gurus - surely there wouldn't be too much cause for concern?

https://m.facebook.com/dynomite.performace/

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 12:19 PM

That's what I thought. Dynamite work on all fords. However I'm told my turbo will explode by many and it won't by others. Trying to work out or get others experiences on boosting a falcon.

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pyrex · 27-06-2020, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Dynomite performance are a reputable tuner and Barra gurus - surely there wouldn't be too much cause for concern?

https://m.facebook.com/dynomite.performace/

Lol , ask forum sponsor Pitt Lane how many stock turbo falcons they let out the door with no boost control running 22psi in the mid?

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 12:31 PM

So how do I now make my boost more controlled and safe besides buying the bigger turbo?

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Franco Cozzo · 27-06-2020, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy11

That's what I thought. Dynamite work on all fords. However I'm told my turbo will explode by many and it won't by others. Trying to work out or get others experiences on boosting a falcon.

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Personally I wouldn't worry bud, they're a reputable tuner who know those cars and engines inside out and at the end of the day you're probably just driving it in and around Melbourne traffic anyway and blasting onto the odd freeway onramp or cheeky blast.

pyrex · 27-06-2020, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy11

So how do I now make my boost more controlled and safe besides buying the bigger turbo?

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I have told you how - you need a ported ( larger wastegate hole ) in your exhaust housing of the turbo. Bigger port - more flow - more chance to keep boost at reasonable level.
I cant believe Dynomite would not insist on a ported rear housing with a 4 inch dump.

Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 12:40 PM

That's pretty much how I drive. I don't flog my car around I just like the option of the power. So if its going to blow my turbo it will most likely be because I'm driving it like its stolen. My thoughts. Im still going to ask him is it safer to put the bigger turbo on.

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Topsy11 · 27-06-2020, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrex

I have told you how - you need a ported ( larger waist gate hole ) in your exhaust housing of the turbo. Bigger port - more flow - more chance to keep boost at reasonable level.

I cant believe Dynomite would not insist on a ported rear housing with a 4 inch dump.

Im asking him. I believed his words being highly recommended. Thank you for your information. This option is cheaper than a new turbo?

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pyrex · 27-06-2020, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy11

Im asking him. I believed his words being highly recommended. Thank you for your information. This option is cheaper than a new turbo?

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For them to pull off the turbo, port the housing and re-fit and tune who knows , maybe $900-$1500.
Larger turbo say gtx3582 gen 2 supercore -$2300, plus port your rear housing plus fit and tune $4000 ish