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03-05-2017, 07:24 PM | #1 | ||
DJT 45 and 47 POTUS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,278
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I just recently heard GM, Ford and Chrysler have signed up to this act:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita..._Copyright_Act Do people realise that this act makes it illegal to modify OEM software and breaches could result in fines and gaol time? In other words, the act makes it illegal to modify the factory EMS software if you want to obtain more power from your engine.
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03-05-2017, 08:05 PM | #2 | ||
^^^^^^^^
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: online - duh
Posts: 9,642
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I haven't read the full link but this really bothers me.
I want car manufacturers to design, build and market the car. Once I choose to buy it and have payed my money what I then do with it is none of their bloody business. Sure, if I expect them to honour warranty during that period then I respect that mods need to be kept to minimum, and beyond that to remain road worthy (legal) certain standards have to be maintained but the manufacturer has nothing to do with that. .
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03-05-2017, 08:30 PM | #3 | ||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,863
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It's an interesting issue but the question remains.....
Who owns the product after you buy it?? |
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03-05-2017, 08:36 PM | #4 | ||
bitch lasagne
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Sonova Beach
Posts: 15,110
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There is a train of thought that posits that the purchase price is essentially a bond and yearly rego is the rental fee... think about why govco is able to get away with impounding cars and not be guilty of theft of a motor vehicle...
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03-05-2017, 09:09 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,064
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Yeah, i guess they are concerned about product image. Imagine if tuners reprogram a DBW system or fit aftermarket pedals and there is a problem with interface with the management system and it causes major accident or fatality..... it's the manufacturers name in the paper,ABS systems or traction controls modified as a by product of fooling a system,stuff can go into limp modes and still cheat warning lights,all sorts of possibilities that I'm sure the manufacturers see and get accused for making unsafe cars etc etc......but on the flip side it's the owner car of course. Personally,I get zero mods till out of warranty,then it's your to do as you wish,or void warranty if you mod before hand. I think Ford got wind of guys spraying Mustangs and fronting up with torched pistons to claim warranty,don't blame them for being onto it...this is of course taking it to another level.
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03-05-2017, 10:41 PM | #6 | |||
Moderator
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Quote:
So lets say you buy a music CD.... You own the physical CD disc, and the songs are licenced to you to listen to in private forever, but you don't actually own the rights to the copyrighted songs themselves.... Nor of course the copyrights or patents on the physical CD disc itself. Last edited by GO FURTHER; 03-05-2017 at 10:55 PM. |
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04-05-2017, 06:40 AM | #7 | ||
irregular member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NSW
Posts: 1,457
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Even if this does come in there will be a least 1 or 2 manufacturers who won't sign it and they will pick up all the sales from the tuning crowd.
I sure as hell wouldn't touch a vehicle that stopped me from tinkering with it. |
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04-05-2017, 10:17 AM | #8 | |||
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
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Quote:
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BA BF FPV starter button repairs. PM me. Nizpro equipped and Tuned by the BEST in the west Xtreme Ford Tuning 479RwKw Fuel limited, more pumps and power too come. F6#0507 & #0639 Pro racer and Tech expert NIZPRO modifying falcons like Premcar can only dream of , see VIDEO below. https://youtu.be/oa4IfguGQ-A |
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04-05-2017, 10:38 AM | #9 | ||||
Sling Shot
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Canberra
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Quote:
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04-05-2017, 10:53 AM | #10 | |||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,863
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Quote:
You own the physical disc so you also have the right to copy this disc, not to damage the original. I remember years ago Apple suggesting this to the Federal court regarding people JailBreaking their iphones. Apple locked their phones for 'Modifying their systems/patents', it was thrown out, apple ordered to fix and pay compensation. This is going to get very messy in a court system that can't handle the load now! |
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04-05-2017, 12:46 PM | #11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,064
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Very true, my only worry would be if there was an accident, even if unrelated to mods the insurance companies would have an out if it was deemed to have illegal mods,
if there's a way for them to avoid a pay out they'll find it. Leaves the owner holding the baby and wearing the brunt of the whole deal. |
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04-05-2017, 01:13 PM | #12 | ||
FAWD - No Boundaries
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 8,129
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..... in the USA....
D
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04-05-2017, 01:57 PM | #13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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04-05-2017, 02:05 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
With electronics it could be a huge minefield,ie a certain software mod for a tune sends a limp mode or fault signal,the tuner then disables the warning leaving the fault,possibly rendering a safety related sub system compromised,it would be very hard to stand up in court and argue that is not the case against the people who actually designed the systems.....It's certainly an interesting topic,it would be interesting to see different countries legal angles on such issues too,ie the US..but like I say,no lawyer here! Cheers. Last edited by XByoot; 04-05-2017 at 02:14 PM. |
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04-05-2017, 03:59 PM | #15 | ||
BA/F6 BF/F6 SSV/R TTG
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There isn't any proof until you get caught. And with no proof you haven't done anything wrong
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04-05-2017, 04:45 PM | #16 | ||
Regular Member
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Location: St Albans, VIC
Posts: 349
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currently this only applies to the US
in Aus as shown with iPhone's etc our copyright laws are a bit different in that regard |
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04-05-2017, 04:54 PM | #17 | ||
Oo\===/oO
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Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Isn't it already illegal to alter the ECU if it effects the EPA standards anyway...
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04-05-2017, 05:25 PM | #18 | ||
DJT 45 and 47 POTUS
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,278
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Yes it ask. Just ask Volkswagen.
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04-05-2017, 05:46 PM | #19 | ||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,863
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I think we may be lucky here as the TTP has been shelved.
This was one of the policy's pushed into the TTP. |
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04-05-2017, 10:46 PM | #20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Just another reason that justifies my Haltech.
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05-05-2017, 10:33 AM | #21 | ||
Moderator
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Location: Melbourne
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If it is indeed illegal to alter the car software, such as getting your car tuned... The question is... Who gets in trouble?
Is it the tuning house that does the tune on your car or you as the owner of the vehicle? |
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05-05-2017, 12:02 PM | #22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
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there's a lot of proprietary software on a PCM. If you are going to keep using 99% of that, and just modify the torque curve, them I think the OEMs have a right to get upset. If you released a song where you have only changed 1% of the notes you'd expect to pay the originator wouldn't you? what's the difference if the OEM effectively copyrights the car software?
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05-05-2017, 02:06 PM | #23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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At the moment, it onus is on the owner to ensure their car meets emission and rwc specifications.
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05-05-2017, 06:11 PM | #24 | ||
Regular Member
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Location: Sydney/Singapore
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Copyright means that you cannot copy without permission. In the case of tuning, the software is not copied, it is modified.
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05-05-2017, 06:40 PM | #25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Perth, WA
Posts: 1,311
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Quote:
1. You own the original, non-infringing copy, 2. The copy made is for private and personal use, 3. The copy is made to a device (or disk) that you own, 4. The copy is not made from an infringing copy (e.g., downloaded illegally), and 5. Once copied, the original copy must not be sold/let for hire/distributed/otherwise traded. It is not an infringement of copyright to copy music CDs onto a USB/SD card for instance so you can listen to it in your car. No. Copyright includes the right to modify and adapt the original work. Making an adaptation of an original work without consent of the copyright owner is an infringement of copyright.
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05-05-2017, 06:44 PM | #26 | |||
Moderator
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This is the same as a tuning house modifying the original copyrighted software in the ECU and then reselling it on to the customer. The tuner has also broken the law. Last edited by GO FURTHER; 05-05-2017 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Spelling |
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05-05-2017, 07:43 PM | #27 | |||
Mad Scientist!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 2,863
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Quote:
BTW, when you copy an original, onto a disc/usb surely the software is illegal for circumnavigating the protection software. More Haziness there, do they sue you for coping, the software company that prob states use at your own risk. Then you have the software protection suing the software company for the program and also you for using the software...... My Head Hurts!!! All it is, is $$$$ for lawyers!! |
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06-05-2017, 12:18 PM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Barossa Valley, South Australia
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Don't forget that there is plenty of other code within cars these days, not just the ECU. You'll probably find that the manufacturers would rather look after their intellectual property on those millions of lines of code than the probably 1000's in an ECU.
The other thing is, why would manufacturers shoot themselves in the foot by starting to prosecute tuners or people with aftermarket tunes? That then means they'll lose sales as people who want to tune their cars will avoid those manufacturers that litigate and look to others that don't.
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15-05-2017, 11:35 PM | #29 | ||
Regular Member
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This is a big issue in the US. John Deere the tractor company is trying to stop farmers from repairing their own machinery.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...hn-deere-apple They are using DMCA to prevent anyone except their agents working on their products. A lot of computer software companies only licence their products. You cannot buy them and you have to renew the licence each year to continue to use it. I am sure car companies would like to do that also. |
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16-05-2017, 06:04 AM | #30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Quote:
You can see cars in the future just becoming a motorised smartphone
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