Mystery fluid leak, TC 2013 Zetec Ecoboost

[stinker]

Hi folks, Greg here, I'm a new member of the forum.

I have a 2013 TC hatch, 2.0 litre turbo petrol, auto, 74,000 klms. I bought it second hand in early 2016, at which time it had 35,000 k's on the clock.

I don't do many k's as you can tell, and I often do short trips (3 to 5 minutes). I have it serviced according to the logbook, which is every 12 months. The last service was done just before Xmas.

It's leaking quite a bit of fluid. My local mechanic has checked it out, he recommended I take it to a Ford dealer for investigation.

The local mechanic tells me that the leak isn't coming from the top of the engine. He said that he can't tell what the fluid is.

The fluid leaked onto a friend's newly laid concrete driveway recently, the stain is black, and it looks quite stylish on the new concrete. The pic below shows the stain, I was parked there for 3.5 hours, so not a small leak.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...mlWJ8PgIjBpss4

Something I've noticed is, if I park on a hill, there'll be fluid on the ground when I drive away, whereas if I park on flat ground there isn't.

I've got it booked in at Byrne Ford Brisbane for a check and quote tomorrow.

Anyone have any suspicion as to what it might be?

Thanks

[Mondaveo]

The picture link is 404 for me...

Originally Posted by stinker

Something I've noticed is, if I park on a hill, there'll be fluid on the ground when I drive away, whereas if I park on flat ground there isn't.

Which direction on the hill - nose uphill or down?

If it was a diesel, black stain would immediately suggest engine oil, but yours is a petrol so not so much a given, unless the oil is old... How long ago was the engine oil and Powershift transmission fluid changed?

[stinker]

Hi Mondaveo, thanks for your post, the car was last serviced in December, oil change would have happened then.

Regarding a transmission fluid change, I'll check the service book and post back shortly.

Regarding parking up or down a hill, fluid will appear on the ground when the car is parked facing up or down.

Is there an easy way of posting the pic directly in this thread?

Thanks

[stinker]

Transmission fluid was last changed in May 2021, a routine "B" log book service.

[edit] Engine oil last changed in October 2023

[.:4:.]

I find it a bit strange that a mechanic would simply throw his hands in the air because the leak is not coming from the top of the engine. Did he even put it on the lift and look from under the car?

[stinker]

Good point, he seemed reluctant to investigate. He said that the leak appears to be coming from where the motor joins the transmission, he said it could be the sump or the transmission, he wasnt sure, and he claimed that a special tool or equipment was required.

But yeah, I thought it was a bit strange. I've been going to him for years, he's been reliable and (as far as I can tell) honest.

[aussiblue]

Oops ignore.

[stinker]

Sorry people, I meant MC of course

[aussiblue]

This; https://www.fordescape.org/threads/o...t#post-1136004 ?

[stinker]

Thanks Blue, that's interesting mate.

In December 2023 I had the vacuum pump o-ring and rocker cover gasket replaced. Neither of these solved the leak, which has been present for about 2 to 3 months.

Prior to that, no leaks evident.

[aussiblue]

Your mechanics advice to take it to a Ford dealer is probably actually sound. They will have seen more of these cars than most mechanics in Australia (although the cars and their engines are just relatively less common rather than rare in Australia) and a dealer will have access to Ford bulletins on the most common oil leak sources. You can always ask the dealer to just diagnose and quote rather than repair if you are concerned about the costs. If you are a member of a auto club in you state like the NRMA or RAC their technical advisory services may alos be prepared to ahve a look at it and/or advise on likely causes too.

[stinker]

Thanks, I've asked Byrne Ford here in Brisbane to diagnose and quote, will know more by tmrw p.m.

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by stinker

Is there an easy way of posting the pic directly in this thread?

You can upload images directly to your forum post, but the space allowance isn't much.

Hosting the image on another service such as Google Photos as you've done there is a fine approach, you just need to make sure you have the image/album set to public or create a sharable link. I'm guessing the link you posted earlier is to a private image (the default setting) so you just need to find the option to set the image public or create a link for sharing.

[stinker]

Thanks for the info, take 2:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JTUhmuEPgBpV5aXt7

[Peter B - CV8]

Looks like engine oil to me. If the leak started after your last service, I'd be checking that the sump plug/ filter have been correctly tightened. Are you able to run the car up onto ramps & investigate yourself ?

[AlanM]

Did you fut your finger on any of the stains? Usually if it's oil it will feel oily for some time before it fully soaks in.

[stinker]

Thanks for chiming in guys, the leak started before the last service if I remember correctly. I was expecting (hoping) the leak would stop after the vacuum pump o ring and rocker cover gasket were replaced, but no luck.

Just collected it from Byrne Ford, the service manager tells me that it's likely leaking from the rear main seal. He's quoted $1750 for the job, more if it's something other than/in addition to the rear main seal. He reckons they won't know for sure until the transmission is uncoupled from the donk.

I've just put 4 new Yokohama tyres on it, was planning on keeping it for another couple of years. Dunno if it's worth it now, I don't want to throw good money after bad.

According to Redbook's Private Price Guide, 2013 MC Zetec Ecoboosts are valued in the range $6,000 to $7,750

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

PS, I have little to no mechanical nouse.

[AlanM]

Before spending that or getting rid of the car it would be worth the effort of seeing just how bad the leak is, and if possible where it's coming from.
If you could put the car on ramps and remove the undertray, give it a good wash down with degreaser from above and below, and also wash the undertray you'd have some kind of starting point.


Drive the car say a week, and remove the undertray again and have a look.

Sometimes main bearing seals just leak slightly, but over a period the undertray can become saturated and eventually start to drip.

There's also leak stop oil additives that have been known to reduce seal leaks considerably.

To be frank, I have pretty much zero faith in Ford dealers' honesty or competence.

[stinker]

Thanks for the advice Alan.

My local mechanic asked me to leave it with him for a day, he did a degrease first thing in the morning and then checked it at the end of the day. It had leaked oil in that time, he said it was coming from the rear of the engine and/or transmission.

It's losing quite a bit of oil. Yesterday, I parked on flat ground at work, there were some drops on the concrete at the end of the day. It's weeping like a Holden supporter the day Peter Brock retired.

I'll look into leak stop additives, was the old STP one of those?

Interesting about Ford dealers mate, they know how to charge. My local mechanic didn't want to touch it because, he said, he didn't have the equipment required.

[AlanM]

Originally Posted by stinker

Thanks for the advice Alan.

My local mechanic asked me to leave it with him for a day, he did a degrease first thing in the morning and then checked it at the end of the day. It had leaked oil in that time, he said it was coming from the rear of the engine and/or transmission.

It's losing quite a bit of oil. Yesterday, I parked on flat ground at work, there were some drops on the concrete at the end of the day. It's weeping like a Holden supporter the day Peter Brock retired.

I'll look into leak stop additives, was the old STP one of those?

Interesting about Ford dealers mate, they know how to charge. My local mechanic didn't want to touch it because, he said, he didn't have the equipment required.

I don't know about STP, I think it was of a lubricating additive.

I haven't really used an engine leak additive, but I did use Lucas's transmission oil treatment on a badly leaking Borg Warner marine gearbox and it stopped leaking immediately. I wasn't even able to get the whole bottle in because it just stopped leaking!

There's a YouTube channel called Project Farm where a completely independent guy tests all kinds of stuff, no doubt he'll have tested oil additives.

[stinker]

Great, thanks, will check it out,

Borg Warner, would they have been manufacturing cars in the 60's?

My brother had a car in the mid late 60s that I thought was called Borg Ward or something like that, it quite possibly have been Borg Warner. I was a young'un, but I clearly remember that the car went like a shower of the proverbial

[AlanM]

Originally Posted by stinker

Great, thanks, will check it out,

Borg Warner, would they have been manufacturing cars in the 60's?

My brother had a car in the mid late 60s that I thought was called Borg Ward or something like that, it quite possibly have been Borg Warner. I was a young'un, but I clearly remember that the car went like a shower of the proverbial

Borg Warner used to supply a lot of automatic transmissions to Ford and some other manufacturers. Some other bits like power steering pumps too. Maybe they made entire cars at some stage, I'm not aware of it though.

[stinker]

Good old Google: Borgward was a German car manufacturer

[stinker]

Byrne Ford service dpartment have uncoupled the transmission from the engine and completed an inspection, they tell me that I have 4 fluid leaks (not me, the Mondeo, although I've just had my own fluid leak):

1. Front clutch cover seal (transmission oil) & rear main seal leaking (engine oil) (includes gear box removal and re install) $2010.00.
   
2. Engine oil sump leaking (engine oil) (reseal) $704.00.
   
3. Transmission oil filter housing and hose (transmission oil) leaking $386.00.

I don't have the expertise required to verify the accuracy of these diagnoses. Byrne Ford have sent me photos, I'll try to upload them.

Total cost of repairs = $3,100. That's roughly half the value of the car on the used car market.

Hoping to get opinions on those pricings.

Thanks guys.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by stinker

Byrne Ford service dpartment have uncoupled the transmission from the engine and completed an inspection, they tell me that I have 4 fluid leaks (not me, the Mondeo, although I've just had my own fluid leak):

1. Front clutch cover seal (transmission oil) & rear main seal leaking (engine oil) (includes gear box removal and re install) $2010.00.
   
2. Engine oil sump leaking (engine oil) (reseal) $704.00.
   
3. Transmission oil filter housing and hose (transmission oil) leaking $386.00.

I don't have the expertise required to verify the accuracy of these diagnoses. Byrne Ford have sent me photos, I'll try to upload them.

Total cost of repairs = $3,100. That's roughly half the value of the car on the used car market.

Hoping to get opinions on those pricings.

Thanks guys.

Do you have that quote on paper?

[stinker]

Hi mate, they sent that info through via email

[.:4:.]

Well, you could take that quote to other mechanics for an opinion and counter quote. However, even if you get a better quote, it better be significantly better as im sure the dealer will charge you for the time already spent pulling the trans. So just some things to ponder.

[aussiblue]

However, even if you get a better quote, it better be significantly better as im sure the dealer will charge you for the time already spent pulling the trans.

As well as the cost of putting it back together so it can be driven or towed elsewhere. And if it's not fixed it will also probably be worth a lot less than your estimate.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

As well as the cost of putting it back together so it can be driven or towed elsewhere.

Thats what i was indicating.

[aussiblue]

Hmm https://www.productreview.com.au/lis...ne-ford-kedron perhaps not where I would have taken it. They also should have been able to some assessment of it without decoupling the transmission even if it was with some estimates of contingent issues (i.e, if its clutch cover seal & rear main seal leaking that will cost you...) and the last two item I think should have been detectable without that. But I think you are sort of stuck with them now and at least the repair should be Ford warranted (but please do ask and confirm that and for how many km and how long).