vFacts October 2019

[Syndrome]

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...r-spot-121408/

[jpd80]

That’s now seven months in a row that Ranger 4x4 has outsold HiLux 4x4, so whatever Ford is doing in that segment is working as it’s not simply undercutting HiLux on price.

[hayseed]

I'd say the Thialux's DFP chooks are coming home to Roost..

[BENT_8]

The answer is pretty obvious, Ford buyers just buy the Ranger as an all rounder whereas Toyota buyers choose between Hilux, Prado and Kluger etc.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s now seven months in a row that Ranger 4x4 has outsold HiLux 4x4, so whatever Ford is doing in that segment is working as it’s not simply undercutting HiLux on price.

Even more of a reason for ford to make sure they keep the ranger fresh and ahead of the pack, the next update is very important to get right

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

The answer is pretty obvious, Ford buyers just buy the Ranger as an all rounder whereas Toyota buyers choose between Hilux, Prado and Kluger etc.

That is true and their SUVs look insurmountable at the moment but so was Hilux a few years ago and then it had real competition.

I’ve driven Prados for work, nothing flash and I suspect a lot of sales are to fleet rentals - mine cars and site cars to ORIX and the like. If Everest becomes squarer like Bronco or if we get both of them then things might get quite interesting ...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

nothing flash

That basically describes the entire Toyota range, yet they still outsell the nearest opposition by 2 to 1.
People don't care as much about looks or engines, they want reliability which they find in the 'nothing flash' Toyota and value for money from the well backed Kia, its no surprise that the former sits atop the ladder whilst the latter is slowly making inroads.

I said this in the May 2019 Vfacts thread...

"Kia has already outsold Ford once in the last 6 months, before their new offerings arrived, I'd say Kia will take 4th from Ford before Ford takes third.
And they don't even have a ute....yet"

Took less than 6 months.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

That basically describes the entire Toyota range, yet they still outsell the nearest opposition by 2 to 1.
People don't care as much about looks or engines, they want reliability which they find in the 'nothing flash' Toyota and value for money from the well backed Kia, its no surprise that the former sits atop the ladder whilst the latter is slowly making inroads.

I said this in the May 2019 Vfacts thread...

"Kia has already outsold Ford once in the last 6 months, before their new offerings arrived, I'd say Kia will take 4th from Ford before Ford takes third.
And they don't even have a ute....yet"

Took less than 6 months.

But that’s also the absurdity of a “sales race” where Ford is clearly not interested in selling sub $30k vehicles let alone sub $20k vehicles. Trying to compete with those cheap and cheery vehicle is for the most part a waste of time and resources.

Ford is dropping the ball big time in two very important areas,
1. Focus and Escape that don’t compete on price but don’t offer enough to give buyers reason to choose them over vanilla brands. Yes, ask a premium price but also give buyers product that’s worthy of that price, Ford has to do more than just cutting out lower trim levels, it has to actually offer more.

2. it’s lack of sales in mid sized SUVs that compete directly with Toyota’s three- Prado/Fortuner/Kluger. Nail that and Ranger and the future looks much brighter. I have a good idea of what’s coming and it could really shake things up. Ford has its template for success with Ranger, they just need to apply that learning to the SUVs.

Kia is a bottom feeder, it’s already starting to chop into Toyota and Mazda compact and subcompact sales. Once that happens, you watch those two
Sales leaders bobble, already happening to Mazda.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But that’s also the absurdity of a “sales race” where Ford is clearly not interested in selling sub $30k vehicles let alone sub $20k vehicles. Trying to compete with those cheap and cheery vehicle is for the most part a waste of time and resources.

Ford is dropping the ball big time in two very important areas,
1. Focus and Escape that don’t compete on price but don’t offer enough to give buyers reason to choose them over vanilla brands. Yes, ask a premium price but also give buyers product that’s worthy of that price, Ford has to do more than just cutting out lower trim levels, it has to actually offer more.

2. it’s lack of sales in mid sized SUVs that compete directly with Toyota’s three- Prado/Fortuner/Kluger. Nail that and Ranger and the future looks much brighter. I have a good idea of what’s coming and it could really shake things up. Ford has its template for success with Ranger, they just need to apply that learning to the SUVs.

Kia is a bottom feeder, it’s already starting to chop into Toyota and Mazda compact and subcompact sales. Once that happens, you watch those two
Sales leaders bobble, already happening to Mazda.

I think Hybrid Escape should do well...if and only if Ford Aust. don't think they are selling a BMW....and also bring in the more powerful Ecoboost models.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by au2000

Even more of a reason for ford to make sure they keep the ranger fresh and ahead of the pack, the next update is very important to get right

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

[csv8]

I looked at a Focus Active. Add option packs 1 and 2 makes it $38k drive away.
A lot of competition in that price range. Some have that kit for less price.
Option pack 1 has adaptive cruise control, blind spot monitoring, cross traffic alert and AEB $1250. Pack 2 18" wheels, adaptive LED headlights with cornering function and rear privacy glass $1800. Sunroof $2k. Orange Glow Hue $650. Ford said its "niche vehicle".

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

But that’s also the absurdity of a “sales race” where Ford is clearly not interested in selling sub $30k vehicles let alone sub $20k vehicles. Trying to compete with those cheap and cheery vehicle is for the most part a waste of time and resources.

Yeah, we keep hearing this but I'm not sure it's any more than positive spin to justify the falling market share, but assuming it is what they want, whats the number required to be viable?
It's ok to say they don't mind shedding quantity for profit margin but dealerships and salesmen need both to survive.
If we believe the article they've shed another 500 units, unless that's all Ecosport, Focus and Mondeo I'd say their profitable lines are copping a hammering too.

[au2000]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

Personally I'd not think so, the contradiction is not lost on me from some of the former falcon motor company haters not seeing the new ranger motor company in the same light,

If ford aus can't make the rest of the range end up near the top of their respective segments then they leave themselves open if a time comes that the ranger falls out of favour.

I find it interesting that the twin cabs are outselling hilux while the "povo packs" loose out to the hilux, yet hilux still outsells ranger.

Be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow tbh

[Fordman1]

Holden ? Gone

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by au2000

be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow tbh

very...

[BENT_8]

Ford around 4800
Holden around 3000

[Rob 351]

https://www.caradvice.com.au/805288/...ota-hilux-4x4/

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

Maybe Ford USA should look in the mirror. It's not as though Ford USA said "Here Ford Aust. collegues please take our RHD Explorer, RHD F-Series, we'll force Ford Europe to only use torque converter auto tranny's..etc" and Ford Aust. replied "no we won't need those vehicles and treat us as an extention of Ford UK with their buyers preferences".

[Fordman1]

Holden down 41%

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Holden down 41%

They must be buying cheap and cheery kias and hyundais

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Yeah, we keep hearing this but I'm not sure it's any more than positive spin to justify the falling market share, but assuming it is what they want, whats the number required to be viable?

I’d sooner have Ford’s future plan than Holden’s ...
At least Ford has a plan and a future.

Toyota will literally crap it’s pants when it sees
what Ford has coming with the NG Ranger and
Everest, they are just not prepared....

[au2000]

Is it just me or is there always about a 400 vehicle sales difference between ranger and hilux every month?

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I’d sooner have Ford’s future plan than Holden’s ...
At least Ford has a plan and a future.

Toyota will literally crap it’s pants when it sees
what Ford has coming with the NG Ranger and
Everest, they are just not prepared....

With all due respect mate, Toyota's sales of models in the top 10 alone is double that of Fords entire range, I don't think they'll be crapping anything anytime soon.

Unless you think Ford will double every segment it competes in and then some, which would be an industry first and not something achievable by a brand which has just come off its worst decade for public perception in its 100 year history, I don't see it happening im sorry.

As I've said numerous times, Fords problem isn't its line up, its the badge and people's perception of it, which makes asking a premium for it a **** take at best.

Had to lol at this paragraph in the above articles 'fast facts'.
Looks like Mr Dowling reads AFF, as I made reference to this last month..

'While some brands like to split variants to claim a victory (such as distinguishing 4x4 or 4x2 utes) all vehicles are calculated by nameplate and have been for decades.'

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

They must be buying cheap and cheery kias and hyundais

Certainly not buying an alternative American brand..

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by au2000

Personally I'd not think so, the contradiction is not lost on me from some of the former falcon motor company haters not seeing the new ranger motor company in the same light,

If ford aus can't make the rest of the range end up near the top of their respective segments then they leave themselves open if a time comes that the ranger falls out of favour.

I find it interesting that the twin cabs are outselling hilux while the "povo packs" loose out to the hilux, yet hilux still outsells Ranger.

Be interesting to see the numbers tomorrow tbh

The 4x4 Ranger outsells the 4x4 Hilux, has done so for past seven months
Hilux 4x2 outsells Ranger 4x2 because it offers a $27k Single Cab petrol Ute, that’s about $10k less than the cheapest Ranger Ute.

These days, the majority of Hilux and Ranger sales are crew cabs in 4x4 and 4x2
the single and extra cab utes are there but small sales compared to crew cabs.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Dearborn wasn't happy with Ford Australia when it was the "Falcon car company". Will it be any different now it has become the "Ranger car company"?

Why? they are basically the F150 car company on percentages

[jpd80]

Ford would actually be pleased that Australia has embraced a global product that doesn’t rely on Australian sales for survival, finding $700 million every seven years or so was a real problem but now that America is bankrolling development of T6 Bronco, a crap ton of good stuff is now available to all T6 products.

The best thing Ford could do is double down with more and better T6 products, Aussies love and miss that six cylinder smoothness and easy power, if Ford manages to replicate that in a non-car vehicle segment, then they will recover a lot of sales.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Ford would actually be pleased that Australia has embraced a global product that doesn’t rely on Australian sales for survival, finding $700 million every seven years or so was a real problem but now that America is bankrolling development of T6 Bronco, a crap ton of good stuff is now available to all T6 products.

The best thing Ford could do is double down with more and better T6 products, Aussies love and miss that six cylinder smoothness and easy power, if Ford manages to replicate that in a non-car vehicle segment, then they will recover a lot of sales.

There's a lot of extra money and effort going into Ranger. A lot. Ford HQ know how important Ranger now is globally and are really pushing it. The next few years will put Hilux in it's place.

And can we all move past trying to compare sales figures against companies that sell small, cheap low profit junk. I found this interesting.

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/kia/k...-04/80389.html

When asked what the brand will do once passenger cars stop becoming a profitable venture for the brand around 2021 or 2022, Mr Meredith said KMAu has plans up its sleeves to replace the volume elsewhere.

Looks like they will eventually follow Ford's lead of replacing small cars for ones that actually make decent profit. Pretty funny considering the boneheads who continually get stuck into Ford about pulling out of passenger cars

Profit is where it's at, not sales numbers (the GM bankruptcy approach).

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

There's a lot of extra money and effort going into Ranger. A lot. Ford HQ know how important Ranger now is globally and are really pushing it. The next few years will put Hilux in it's place.

And can we all move past trying to compare sales figures against companies that sell small, cheap low profit junk. I found this interesting.

https://www.goauto.com.au/news/kia/k...-04/80389.html

When asked what the brand will do once passenger cars stop becoming a profitable venture for the brand around 2021 or 2022, Mr Meredith said KMAu has plans up its sleeves to replace the volume elsewhere.

Looks like they will eventually follow Ford's lead of replacing small cars for ones that actually make decent profit. Pretty funny considering the boneheads who continually get stuck into Ford about pulling out of passenger cars

Profit is where it's at, not sales numbers (the GM bankruptcy approach).

I understand that it obviously frustrates you that Australian consumers would rather purchase white goods on wheels or cheap low profit junk than the cars you work on, but is it too much to ask for you to get your message across without the condascending tones, it says nothing about our shopping habits but plenty about you.

Also, could you clarify your opinion of junk, as I'm not sure if you're referencing my $18k purchase which has been faultless or someone else's 60k dualcab with stuffed gearbox or dodgy injectors.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

With all due respect mate, Toyota's sales of models in the top 10 alone is double that of Fords entire range, I don't think they'll be crapping anything anytime soon.

Trust me, they will because Ford is going after the important Ute and SUV
sales that strike at Toyota's heartland.

All vehicles from compact car and utes down will soon be cannon fodder for
the Koreans, so Toyota is going to cling to Hilux, LC and upper SUVs like a
drowning man.

As I've said numerous times, Fords problem isn't its line up, its the badge and people's perception of it, which makes asking a premium for it a **** take at best.

If it was the badge, Ranger wouldn't sell worth a cracker, and wouldn't sell with the price premium it has, so your theory is a bust. In lower categories, Ford is fishing with the wrong bait, they simply cannot sell over priced
Euro vehicles with missing lower trims, they need a different plan.

Had to lol at this paragraph in the above articles 'fast facts'.
Looks like Mr Dowling reads AFF, as I made reference to this last month..

'While some brands like to split variants to claim a victory (such as distinguishing 4x4 or 4x2 utes) all vehicles are calculated by nameplate and have been for decades.'

It's an interesting observation that the generally higher priced 4x4s easily outsell
the lower priced 4x2 utes but of course, Toyota with a distinctive price leader
always wins out because it's prepared to sell cheaper tradie utes.

Sales "winners" without the context of vehicle values is pointless, the
objective for Ford must be to strike at Toyota's most lucrative 8,000 sales
a month and gain as many of them as it can and just forget the nickel and
dime stuff