Mitsubishi, Nissan and Renault to be the same thing

[Bossxr8]

Mitsubishi, Renault and Nissan vehicles in future will all be pretty much the same car, just with slight changes to grille, wheels, badges etc.

Not sure this is going to be a good thing. They really must be in financial dire straights if they are forced to do this just to survive. If they lose their individuality then what have they got going for them?




https://www.caradvice.com.au/853332/...ical-overhaul/



Next generation Mitsubishi Triton and Nissan Navara utes were supposed to look different, but be twins under the skin. A radical overhaul announced overnight means they will also look the same.


The Mitsubishi Triton and Nissan Navara are among the first casualties of a radical overhaul of the struggling Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance.

The original plan was for all three car makers to save money by sharing platforms, technology and engines – components customers cannot see – but retain their own identity with unique exterior designs and bodywork.

But in a sweeping and unexpected overhaul announced overnight, the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance vowed that future models will also share largely identical bodywork and wear different badges.


The most recent examples of the future direction for the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance are the Renault Trafic and Mitsubishi Express vans (pictured below), which are identical except for their grille, bonnet and badge.


However, the next generation Mitsubishi Triton and Nissan Navara utes – due three to five years from now – will also share the same philosophy, and commonality. The same rules will also apply to hatchbacks and SUVs across the brands, all of which will likely have few design differences.


In a video conference last night, Alliance operating board chairman Jean-Dominique Senard said 39 per cent of vehicles produced last year by all three brands were based on shared underpinnings.

However that number will double to approximately 80 per cent – or eight out of every 10 vehicles – by 2024.

In addition, the majority of future Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance vehicles will also share body styling, with discreet changes to badging, grilles, bumpers, and wheel designs.


It is unclear whether the remaining 20 per cent of vehicles are niche models which would keep their original design, or be shared in some form as well. For example, will the upcoming Nissan 400Z be exclusive to Nissan, or will it too be shared across the Alliance?


Mr Senard said car underbodies (referred to as “platforms”) represent one-third of the total development cost of new vehicles, and upper bodies represented another third of the overall investment.

The shift to making identical vehicles – except for badges and other minor styling details – across the Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance, would consolidate approximately two-thirds of the development costs, said Mr Senard.

The Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance will also introduce a “leader, follower” development strategy.


In essence, one of the three brands would lead development of a certain vehicle and then be supported by the others to tailor their requirements.

In examples given by executives during the video conference, Renault would lead development of micro electric cars, Nissan would lead development of small and medium electric cars, and Mitsubishi would take charge of medium to large electric cars.


In another example, executives said Alliance partners in Brazil currently built six models off four “platforms”, but this would change to seven models off one “platform”, and the vehicles would share common bodywork and technology – and be built on the same production line to improve efficiency.

In such a scenario, largely identical cars will roll off the same production line but wearing different badges, before being shipped to the dealers for each brand.


Market analysts were yet to predict how such a radical move might dilute the brand values of each badge when there is little to no differentiation across the various models.

However, Mr Senard said the overhaul is the result of “a highly collaborative process” between all three companies.

“An open diagnosis was carried out on the strengths and weaknesses of the previous model, feedback (was) collected from all the teams around the world, helping to focus on the main topics to be addressed,” said Mr Senard.


That means, for example, Mitsubishi will lead development of the next generation Triton utility.


CarAdvice understands a recent internal study by the Alliance found the cost to develop, engineer and build the Mitsubishi Triton was significantly cheaper than for the Nissan Navara.

As a result, CarAdvice understands, Mitsubishi was appointed as the “leader” of the utility for the Alliance, and Nissan would be the “follower”.

Mitsubishi is already well progressed with a new generation Triton which is believed to be about three years away from showrooms, however the next generation Nissan Navara is not due until about 2025.

Under the original plan, the next generation Nissan Navara was going to share the hardware, technology and underbody of the next generation Mitsubishi Triton – but have a unique upper body and a distinct design.



The differentiation arrangement would have been similar to the current generation Nissan Navara and Mercedes x Class utilities – which have unique bodies but largely share the same underpinnings.

However, under the new plan, the Nissan Navara will likely be a clone of the Mitsubishi Triton except for a unique front end appearance, badging and wheels, for example.

Despite concerns about diluting each brand, Mr Senard insisted the radical approach would be the envy of the car industry.

“I bet … in a few years time, given what we are doing now, this Alliance is going to be the most powerful combination of companies in the (automotive) world,” said Mr Senard.

The Alliance operating board chairman said the framework for the overhaul of all three companies was worked out during high level meetings in Japan at the end of January, just as the world was going into COVID-19 lockdowns.



“Our three companies have been working hard … throughout the COVID-19 crisis we have maintained strong links and continued discussions on our future,” said Mr Senard.

“Today Renault, Nissan and Mitsubishi have relaunched. Now is the time to rebuild. For our three companies, the Alliance is the keystone to our resilience and to our competitiveness.”

Mr Senard said the previous business model was based on “strong growth” and “very high sales volumes”.

However, he said, “we all know … the mobility landscape is changing fast as competition in the automotive market increases; today we adjust our (business) model accordingly.”



Executives also reiterated that each manufacturer would be supported by the others, and have access to the latest technology.

“The leader/follower scheme is not about being leader against each other, it is about the Alliance competing with the automotive industry,” said Mr Senard.

[Franco Cozzo]

I bet accountants are responsible for this.

[aussiblue]

I bet accountants are responsible for this.

No; as an Accountant, I would prefer to blame the French.

Oops; but I have French ancestry too so I can't win. But Renault has essentially progressively dragged Nissan and Mitsubishi down to their level of unreliability and style over function mentality, so they are all now in deep financial doggy do.

[Polyal]

Unfortunately I predict as time goes on and EV takes hold the days have multiple manufactures making cars as we know it will dwindle.

Is Ford not also sharing the ranger with VW, did so with Mazda etc.

EV's will change the landscape with less mechanical requirements and therefore less costs which is good, but its going to be dynamically a bland landscape.

[FTE217]

its been coming for a few years this annoucement.
Not surprised, lol like blame the French for lets face it their cars are poo.
Gawd knows why Nissan agreed to have those crap motors in their top line Novarras etc....
Between Nissan/Mitsu their light vehilce range is poo, barring the exception mighty GTR's, dropped so many models and all SUV/Light Truck males sense to survive.

Polyal, word was VW sharing the Ranger platform but I think that has gone cold now.

The game is changing and faster than we'd like.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

No; as an Accountant, I would prefer to blame the French.

Oops; but I have French ancestry too so I can't win. But Renault has essentially progressively dragged Nissan and Mitsubishi down to their level of unreliability and style over function mentality, so they are all now in deep financial doggy do.

Apparently it costs the french 40% more to develop a car than either Nissan or Mitsubishi. The Japanese are efficient, but you can also imagine the frenchies having a long lunch with multiple wines everyday.

Originally Posted by Polyal

Unfortunately I predict as time goes on and EV takes hold the days have multiple manufactures making cars as we know it will dwindle.

Is Ford not also sharing the ranger with VW, did so with Mazda etc.

EV's will change the landscape with less mechanical requirements and therefore less costs which is good, but its going to be dynamically a bland landscape.

You are missing the point. The Amorak and Ranger will have unique styling, interiors and suspension tuning. The Navara and Triton will be the same car with different grilles and badges.

There are a lot of companies using the same platforms, but they spend the time and money differentiating the 2 vehicles. Infusing them with their brands look and feel.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by FTE217

its been coming for a few years this annoucement.
Not surprised, lol like blame the French for lets face it their cars are poo.
Gawd knows why Nissan agreed to have those crap motors in their top line Novarras etc....
Between Nissan/Mitsu their light vehilce range is poo, barring the exception mighty GTR's, dropped so many models and all SUV/Light Truck males sense to survive.

Polyal, word was VW sharing the Ranger platform but I think that has gone cold now.

The game is changing and faster than we'd like.

Nissan are in deep poo as well. Ghosn made a push to increase sales by 10%, and offered the dealers insane dealer incentives to move cars. It followed the good old GM model towards bankruptcy. How did they not see the previous failures of trying to buy market share via incentives, and destroying profits in the process

No wonder Nissan tried so hard to skewer Ghosn. They wanted him out, so what better way then drumming up financial misconduct charges.

And the Ranger/Amarok deal is full steam ahead.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You are missing the point. The Amorak and Ranger will have unique styling, interiors and suspension tuning. The Navara and Triton will be the same car with different grilles and badges.

There are a lot of companies using the same platforms, but they spend the time and money differentiating the 2 vehicles. Infusing them with their brands look and feel.

No I get how it works, I was simply stating that platform sharing is becoming more prevalent and diluting the brands until eventually they meld into a couple of generic transportation devices.

[naddis01]

How long until the 3 brands turn into 1? Or none?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Polyal

, I was simply stating that platform sharing is becoming more prevalent and diluting the brands until eventually they meld into a couple of generic transportation devices.

Future car assembly robot/worker....

"What badge do I install on this one boss."

[Nu66et]

Choosing the next gen Triton over Navarra, if current models are any guide, would surely be suicide. Maybe there's a reason Mitsubishi could do it cheaper?!

[oldel]

Originally Posted by naddis01

How long until the 3 brands turn into 1? Or none?

I don't think that will happen (merging)
They are after sharing costs for boring volume sellers so they can still do development on their own special cars (hopefully).

Not many people buy any of these brands in volume. Sure some buy the navara or triton but that's only based on low pricing, but when was the last time anyone really cared about those brands? For mits it was the evo and for nissan it was the skyline and that's a long time ago - and performance sedans are dead. They don't even have much skin in the small hatch back segment, nissan or mits haven't sold much there in a long time. Except the leaf it's on in the renault megane.

Sharing platforms never really hurt ford and mazda did it?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by oldel

I don't think that will happen (merging)
They are after sharing costs for boring volume sellers so they can still do development on their own special cars (hopefully).

Not many people buy any of these brands in volume. Sure some buy the navara or triton but that's only based on low pricing, but when was the last time anyone really cared about those brands? For mits it was the evo and for nissan it was the skyline and that's a long time ago - and performance sedans are dead. They don't even have much skin in the small hatch back segment, nissan or mits haven't sold much there in a long time. Except the leaf it's on in the renault megane.

Sharing platforms never really hurt ford and mazda did it?

You would be hard pressed to find anything worth buying from any of them beyond say a Megane RS, or Nissan GTR. The rest of their ranges are just cheap boring crap. Outlanders, ASX, X- Trails etc. All just boring crap. Yet they have a long history of making really cool stuff. Evo's, Skylines etc, etc.

[Sprintey]

France you can do the mechanical, Japan you can do the styling... er hang on, was it Japan you can do the mechanical, France you can do the styling... um, no maybe let's do it the first way.

[Sprintey]

This is part of the big consolidation as we go electric. 3 companies together, or is it that they shrink to 1? Car industry caught between oncoming electric, overcapacity, ridesharing rather than ownership demographic change.

Not all will survive so hopefully Ford makes it to the other side.

Oil industry will be in strife too.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

You would be hard pressed to find anything worth buying from any of them beyond say a Megane RS, or Nissan GTR. The rest of their ranges are just cheap boring crap. Outlanders, ASX, X- Trails etc. All just boring crap. Yet they have a long history of making really cool stuff. Evo's, Skylines etc, etc.

The vehicles mentioned in your original post were the type that Mines and Tradies use, and neither care much for styling so long as it gets the job done and they can claim it on tax.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

The vehicles mentioned in your original post were the type that Mines and Tradies use, and neither care much for styling so long as it gets the job done and they can claim it on tax.

Not anymore. Private buyers are buying dual cab utes in droves now. The days of them being completely commercial vehicles is long gone.

But this policy will extend to 8 out of 10 vehicles. Utes only make up 1 of those.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

This is part of the big consolidation as we go electric. 3 companies together, or is it that they shrink to 1? Car industry caught between oncoming electric, overcapacity, ridesharing rather than ownership demographic change.

Not all will survive so hopefully Ford makes it to the other side.

Oil industry will be in strife too.

I think ridesharing is a complete deadend. There have been many companies trying to set this up and they have pretty much all failed.

Covid 19 could be the final nail in its coffin too. Who wants to share a car with someone who might have something.

[eb2fairmont]

Model sharing that is superficial does not work.

The Allianace has taken once great brands and turned them into rubbish.

They’ll fold in the next 10 years

[oldel]

Anyone relying on cheap dual cabs and suvs like they currently are is bound to fail anyway - if they do nothing to cut costs.
People that buy them buy on price and don't care who makes them - they'll be buying something even cheaper from Korea, south asia or china in the next 10 years anyway as they currently don't particularly care about mits or nissan brands.

[CyberWasp]

This guy is a tool.
Look how much additional money it costs to design a new grill on a computer screen to distinguish between the makers.
You could obviously save more money in not designing a new grille, and just have the badge to distinguish between them.
Actually they should be sold without the badge. The customer could purchase it separately when you buy the car and stick it on them self.
This would save the company heaps in the factory by not having to purchase and stick badges on.
I think he could save more also by making them all the same colour. If they buy 6 x more of one colour, they well get a better rate buying in greater bulk.

[Adamz Ghia]

Nissan would be experts at this. Just make it like the Ute, a Nissan badge stuck over a Ford one.

[oldel]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

Nissan would be experts at this. Just make it like the Ute, a Nissan badge stuck over a Ford one.

Just like when ford got a nissan patrol and shoved a ford badge on it and called it a ford maverick? Or when ford got a nissan pintara and stuck a badge on it and called it a corsair?
Nissan got the raw end of that deal because all they got was a falcon ute that nobody bought when it had a nissan badge on it. Way more people bought the ford badged cars that nissan made.

About 20 years ago I wanted to get one of those nissan XF/g utes and put a nissan turbo rb engine into it
E: Still would, if they were cheap enough these days - not likely.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by oldel

Just like when ford got a nissan patrol and shoved a ford badge on it and called it a ford maverick? Or when ford got a nissan pintara and stuck a badge on it and called it a corsair?
Nissan got the raw end of that deal because all they got was a falcon ute that nobody bought when it had a nissan badge on it. Way more people bought the ford badged cars that nissan made.

Why do you have to be one of those people...?

[au2000]

What sad automotive times we lie in now, if you can't be bothered even trying to make them look different why should anyone even bother buying them..ahh the 80's, where a ford lazer was a Mazda 323, a Camry was a Holden Apollo, corolla was a Holden nova, xr ute the Nissan ute, maverick / patrol... And of course the mighty lexcen and commodore match up, ....

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by au2000

What sad automotive times we lie in now, if you can't be bothered even trying to make them look different why should anyone even bother buying them..ahh the 80's, where a ford lazer was a Mazda 323, a Camry was a Holden Apollo, corolla was a Holden nova, xr ute the Nissan ute, maverick / patrol... And of course the mighty lexcen and commodore match up, ....

To the point IMO were Supercars are also becoming bland and generic.

The pursuit of ultimate engineering perfection has also brought blandness. Yes they are faster than ever but the soul and character of supercars from 20-30 years ago has faded. Brand acquisitions and economic pressures to blame aswell.

Our generation will see out what was "good". Hence why I am keen to get my kids exposed to older cars just to realise were it all came from...not sure they care to much either.

Transport A-B here we come.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by au2000

What sad automotive times we lie in now, if you can't be bothered even trying to make them look different why should anyone even bother buying them..ahh the 80's, where a ford lazer was a Mazda 323, a Camry was a Holden Apollo, corolla was a Holden nova, xr ute the Nissan ute, maverick / patrol... And of course the mighty lexcen and commodore match up, ....

Don't forget the Ford Trader/Mazda T series and Toyota Dyna/Diahatsu Delta

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I think ridesharing is a complete deadend. There have been many companies trying to set this up and they have pretty much all failed.

Covid 19 could be the final nail in its coffin too. Who wants to share a car with someone who might have something.

So much hope you are right... also imagine trying to score a ride share to get you back home on a dirt track somewhere west of Cape Otway with a 7 foot board and soaked wettie...

[Mr Brooksy]

VW seem just fine doing the same thing with VW, Audi and Skoda all basically the same cars. And they have been doing it a fair while now. I don't really see much of an issue with it. It's not like there isn't an awful lot of car manufacturers out there...

I remember a few years ago we were all complaining of the sheer number of manufacturers coming into Australia and hurting our local manufacturing. Only for many to basically say, that more competition means it's better for the buyer.

I see this as the outcome of that argument. Too many manufacturers all competing on the knifes edge of profitability for market share and for whatever reason you don't sell your projected numbers, what choice do you have?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

VW seem just fine doing the same thing with VW, Audi and Skoda all basically the same cars. And they have been doing it a fair while now. I don't really see much of an issue with it. It's not like there isn't an awful lot of car manufacturers out there...

I remember a few years ago we were all complaining of the sheer number of manufacturers coming into Australia and hurting our local manufacturing. Only for many to basically say, that more competition means it's better for the buyer.

I see this as the outcome of that argument. Too many manufacturers all competing on the knifes edge of profitability for market share and for whatever reason you don't sell your projected numbers, what choice do you have?

But those cars all have unique sheetmetal, interiors, suspension and steering tunes and dimensions. The Skodas are usually a half size bigger than the equivalent VW for example.

How does that relate to having whole cars identical bar grilles and badges?