Holden's Daewoo gamble beginning to go sour?

[Falcon Freak]

Did anybody notice the sales figures for the Daewoo built Barina and Viva for April 2007 were 40% lower then 12 months earlier? This is in stark contrast to the market trend where the overall new vehicle market is up approximately 10%.

I questioned Holden's decision many months ago to source models from Daewoo and was ridiculed by some people. I will admit that these models did sell reasonably well when they were released. But as time has passed the sales performance of these models has begun to drop. Could it be that people who have purchased these vehicles have been less then satisfied with them and have either discouraged other people from buying them or has spread poor verdicts about these vehicles?

The Captiva has been selling well since its release. The question is will this initial sales surge be maintained? Now there is a fourth Daewoo built model released by Holden - Epica - which will also be worth watching. Early reviews have stated that the car is not a patch on the superseded Opel built Vectra.

Does anybody either own or know somebody who owns one of these Daewoo built Holdens have any comments about these vehicles?

FF

[Polyal]

I doubt quality issues would be a factor just yet. If people were stupid enough to buy them before, nothing has changed to stop that yet.

I cant believe Ford are so soft when it comes to marketing. An example would be that Captiva add, where Holden takes a blatant shot of the Territory in terms of fuel consumption. (even though people with half a brain will see that the Terry is a much bigger car with more capability).

Ford need to have a stab at Holden small car origins, or safety ratings, or something; they are just letting them get away with it at the moment.

[fou_bleu]

If they went with Vauxhal's and Opels, they would have a new Vectra VXR/OPC instead of the Epica and Barina VXR/OPC! How silly are they!!!
Also, the Captiva Diesel ad [suggested above] says it's more fuel economical, BUT Ford don't have a diesel!!! :

[pertuan]

The new Barina (Opel version) looks good. Better than this Daewoo rubbish.

So far, everyone that I've talked to about the Daewoo Holden cars has not bought one. Mainly because I keep referring to them as Daewoos. hehe. "You want to buy a Daewoo Barina? Your choice..."

Holden Marketing people are very good at their job though. Must admit that. Perhaps Ford should poach some of them.

[XCSEDAN]

no joke, the deal went sour as soon as they got bought out by GM, not enough cars been sold to be important to GMH.

[peyote]

my Mrs has the my07 barina "daewoo"
it been back to the dealer 4 times in less than 20,000km
1st time the coil pack died at about 2,000km
2nd to much oil aprox 700ml after 3000km free service rang selling dealer got fobbed of so took it to another dealer
3rd front rotor warped at about 5,000km
4th return to dealer fault light on at aprox 12,000 service centre had NFI what the fault was so reset
and 2 windscreens
she hates the car now

[XR8putts]

If Ford had half a brain, they'd make a point about the competition's cars origins in the TV commericials. And do it well.

[Smoke Pursuit]

The bloke who we bought our VE Calais off told me first hand that the Captiva he had was the biggest bucket of **** hes ever driven!! He was a Ford salesmen previous and said that the Territory made the Captiva look like a 20 year old Suzike Vitara.

As for the smaller cars, everyone knows they are Rebadged Daewoos, and Daewoos were never popular in the first place, how Holden thinks their badge can change how a car is percieved in the market is really beyond me, and it seems them now!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by puts99

If Ford had half a brain, they'd make a point about the competition's cars origins in the TV commericials. And do it well.

Yes holden doesnt mind picking on Ford coz of the higher fuel consumption of the territory, so i dont see why Ford couldnt do the same about their cheap imports.

[TUF_302]

Using daewoos was always going to end badly i think, and the holden add baggin terrys, well surely we can bag there cheap nasty cars without strife!

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yes holden doesnt mind picking on Ford coz of the higher fuel consumption of the territory, so i dont see why Ford couldnt do the same about their cheap imports.

Yeah agree but they need to focus on the quality & safety aspects and compare those.

Saying that "Our cars are made locally or imported from 'x' whilst theirs are Korean" may get Ford into trouble for playing the 'Korean' (anti Asian) card.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Definately, thats what i was trying to say!

[Mercury 8]

Anyone remember the ad that Moffat done in the late 70's.Had a car bra like thing covering the front end with slanty eyes and were taking off the Japanese.Think the ad got pulled after people complained but it was very funny. Many years later in a political correct world they let it air.

[AU-MUSTD]

So far my captiva has been a brilliant car and the only issue's with it have been dealer related. Even my father who had 2 territories previously cant believe how tight it is to drive. Both his tezza's fell apart quicker than a sand castle in a storm. To me l dont care where it's made but how well it's engineered and what sort of service you get when things go wrong that counts. That was my biggest dissapointment with previous new fords.

[vztrt]

FF has it just been this month that the sales have dropped or has this been getting lower and lower every month?

[schnoods]

My sister in law bought a Viva last year (2nd hand) as the previous owner didnt like the build quality of it. She picked it up for 13k with 15 thousand on the clock. Seems ok so far but the noise from the road was a bit of an issue.

She fixed that by puting a loud exhaust. :rolleyes:

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

So far my captiva has been a brilliant car and the only issue's with it have been dealer related. Even my father who had 2 territories previously cant believe how tight it is to drive. Both his tezza's fell apart quicker than a sand castle in a storm. To me l dont care where it's made but how well it's engineered and what sort of service you get when things go wrong that counts. That was my biggest dissapointment with previous new fords.

The one i drove felt cheap in comparison to the Ford, plus it had **** all power when it came to overtaking, id rate the car 4 out of 10 while id give my territory 7 / 10.

Comes down to personal opinion i guess, but I couldnt bare to put up with something that had the equipment level of my AU XR6.

[mrnsx]

ford probably wont go and spend $$$ advertising just to put holden down, they know that holden cant back up its claims vs ford so there probably just letting it slip past till holden slaps themselves in the face.

from a marketing point of view, holden putting ford down only justifies that holden is scared from ford, plus, i wont be surprised if ford has a secret weapon in the making atm (like a diesel falcon or something heaps different), the more petrol prices rise, the higher chance of a new car being made to replace the petrol munching falcon

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by puts99

If Ford had half a brain, they'd make a point about the competition's cars origins in the TV commericials. And do it well.

Something like "More economical than Prado Pajero (etc - as appropriate), although we do use more Fuel than Sante Fe diesel, and Captiva diesel, Fiat Uno ... if you want economy, buy a vesper"

[merlin]

Captiva - what an ugly, ugly "car" - saw one on the road yesterday, looks like it has been squished in at the sides, so tall and narrow.

[ltd]

How typical of Holden to rubbish the opposition, the cheapest and most offensive form of marketing available. For Holden this form of marketing is something that they should stay away from, especially when their main product (commonwhore) is less fuel efficient than their competition. If Holden had any brains they would pull the ad and STFU about fuel efficiency; atleast Ford can soon come about and bite them in the you know what with the BF, BF2 and Orion when it comes to fuel economy.

I laugh my guts out every time I see that stupid Epica ad, and those words "effortless power" - what, all 105kw of them? What a joke. They also have a 2.5 litre engine making a whopping 115kw. Fuel efficiency on this little gem is still a mile off from the Camry, yet the camry makes the same power out of a 4 cylinder engine. Watch how few people buy the crappy epica.

Predictions: Holden will eventually WANT to go back to the Opel sourced cars, as people will not fully embrace the Koreans due to resale value and the perception of a cheap and nasty Holden. Captiva may woo a couple of thousand buyers, but the market it's aimed at is purely for the family which means it's going to be subjected to size comparisons. This will see alot of people end up in a territory or a similarly larged car. So FF is right, and the Korean AWD will get over its New Kid On the Block syndrome, especially when people try to resell it later on. The Captiva will eventually go the way of the crewman when the terry diesel comes out.
Finally, the VE hasn't done as well as first hoped and Holden has already started heavy discounting to fleets. Watch the VE2 come out in February next year in order to pip the Orion launch, however watch what Holden sales do with Orion as fleets move to the more modern, more fuel efficient Falcon. Compared to Orion the commodore looks quite dated, and the antiquated drive train will ensure that Holden has to spend money in order to compete. At the moment, the VE is still celebrating its Honeymoon period, and for all intents and purposes the VE is the Kevin Rudd of cars. All flash, all new and full of shyte.

[ClevlndStemer]

i don't think Ford need to worry about taking cheap childish stabs at Holden and the origin of their cars, they have their own issues. FFS Ford need to concentrate on their own reputation (slowly but surely coming down) and QC. Only then when they have the proven reliability and quality can they take such steps in putting the opposition down.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ClevlndStemer

i don't think Ford need to worry about taking cheap childish stabs at Holden and the origin of their cars, they have their own issues. FFS Ford need to concentrate on their own reputation (slowly but surely coming down) and QC. Only then when they have the proven reliability and quality can they take such steps in putting the opposition down.

True, but Holdens issues are equally as bad. Were just lucky that our small/meduim cars are euro based.

Daewoo might get better eventually (actually probabily only a matter of time), so now is the time to have a stab.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by mrnsx

petrol munching falcon

ever since the launch of the ve the falcon has been more fuel efficient due to the ve bulking up over the vz.

also saying that when the orion is launched fleets will flock to it due to superior build and technology. i beg to differ. when ba was launched it was light years ahead of its opposition (still competitive now) and yet it only won the sales race for maybe 2 or 3 months and not consecutive either. people still flocked to the vy/vz commo's even though every journo in the country bar none said the ba was better.

the vt was a better car than the el falcon and many would argue it was better than the au. despite this i would never buy a holden as i'm a blue blooded fellow. the opposite is also true. even though ford may release a superior product, only those who are not one eyed will even consider it. most holden fans i know only have 1 eye.

an example - a young fellow at work needed a wagon as he owns a few food vending machines and needs to cart stock around for them. he likes his holdens. i suggested he get a ba wagon as price wise it was about the same as the vx he was looking at, way better car, more features and better carrying capacity in the rear due to leaf suspension. needless to say he now owns a vx wagon.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Did anybody notice the sales figures for the Daewoo built Barina and Viva for April 2007 were 40% lower then 12 months earlier? This is in stark contrast to the market trend where the overall new vehicle market is up approximately 10%.

You found smoke but there is no fire, Holden has just had supply issues. From memory Focus and Lancer were in a similiar predicament.

[Tles]

Originally Posted by ltd

How typical Holden rubbish product (commonwhore). Holden STFU; atleast Ford bite.laugh
Holden a cheap and nasty Holden Captiva for the family with Korean AWD New Kid On the Block syndrome. The Captiva will eventually go the way of the crewman when the terry diesel comes out...... At the moment, the VE is still celebrating its Honeymoon period, and for all intents and purposes the VE is the Kevin Rudd of cars. All flash, all new and full of shyte.

Itd very good - It's funny cause it's true!

Ford will be moving more upmarket with Orion - all indicators and some press suggest this. Worked for Mazda, Subaru, VW, Peugeot, Audi. More profit per unit from specialising and consistently delivering what you do well. Comfortable well handling and even fun too drive cars. Let Toyota and Holden be the everydog suppliers.
Ford was still Australia's biggest local seller of Oz built cars last year. Fairmont Ghia was always a good thing, it was the base beancounter specials which muddied the water, even if they provided the volume, they killed resale.
Orion volumes will be unlikely to exceed BF volumes without export, so more bucks per car will be the only way - Which means, like with Territory, selling more higher specced unit mix, not price rises.
This will be why there is now room for Mondeo and the other Euro worldclass products in AU showrooms.

[Polyal]

And thats it. You can have all the volume you like, but if your not profiting then whats the point. And if those volumes come through a cheap product then it will eventually bite you in the bum.

[Noddy]

This says it all, the epica does 16.4 to a 100kph in their tests and is thirsty.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...parisonID=1029

[ltd]

Allow me to elaborate on my point.
What I was saying is that the Holden would lose out to ford on the basis of fuel costs alone. With Toyota Camry and Aurion encroaching on typical ford and holden territory with the fleets, companies are looking for lower costs such as fuel burn. Ford is 0.3l/100klm behind the Aurion, Orion should see this number debunked. Furthermore, ford is offering fantastic value for money with its e-gas option (police anyone), Holden don't have that yet. The holden whilst it addressed many glaring issues with its new platform has failed to tackle efficiency, and it is hurting them in the fleets due to toyota and others raising the bar. It will take a miracle for Holden to beat fords efficiency, and as an engine they aren't even on the same terms power wise until Holden drops the whole V6 thing and goes an I6.
For these reasons alone, Holden will continue to be at a disadvantage to toyota and to a lesser extent Ford.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Noddy

This says it all, the epica does 16.4 to a 100kph in their tests and is thirsty.

16.4 when fully laden.