How to kill and get away with it...

MAD · 19-03-2010, 05:51 PM

We've long known that for some reason if you're drunk in a car and kill someone, the likelihood of any serious jail time is very slim... Well here's a new way to avoid the iron bars.... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1225842931986

When is our justice system going to actually get hard on offenders?

geckoGT · 19-03-2010, 06:11 PM

Nice when you can get off with murder by saying "oops, I am sorry"

:

GS608 · 19-03-2010, 06:22 PM

and another escaping conviction..

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/granny...-1225833004110

CFOUR · 19-03-2010, 06:28 PM

How to kill and get away with it?
answer. kill yourself

JACK250 · 19-03-2010, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

When is our justice system going to actually get hard on offenders?

Not so long ago I would have agreed with you, but having started legal studies my opinion on punishment has changed altogether. I don't see how a lengthy jail sentence would help much, this guy has made a terrible mistake, but he in no way had intent to hurt anyone. While it is a huge mistake to make, I don't see what good locking him up would do, all that happens is that he gets raped, bashed, and comes out either scarred or hardened, for what good? So that the community feels good when they read the headline?

I don't claim to have all the answers, nor do I suggest this guy should be let off without consequence, but I think people are far too quick to jump on the gaol bandwagon, which I disagree with, especially with the state of the whole prison system of today.

luke1984 · 19-03-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACK250

Not so long ago I would have agreed with you, but having started legal studies my opinion on punishment has changed altogether. I don't see how a lengthy jail sentence would help much, this guy has made a terrible mistake, but he in no way had intent to hurt anyone. While it is a huge mistake to make, I don't see what good locking him up would do, all that happens is that he gets raped, bashed, and comes out either scarred or hardened, for what good? So that the community feels good when they read the headline?

I don't claim to have all the answers, nor do I suggest this guy should be let off without consequence, but I think people are far too quick to jump on the gaol bandwagon, which I disagree with, especially with the state of the whole prison system of today.

Maybe deter others from doing the same?

**Burnout** · 19-03-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACK250

especially with the state of the whole prison system of today.

And what pray tell is the state of the prison system of today?

naddis01 · 19-03-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

We've long known that for some reason if you're drunk in a car and kill someone, the likelihood of any serious jail time is very slim... Well here's a new way to avoid the iron bars.... http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1225842931986

When is our justice system going to actually get hard on offenders?

From personal experience with a losing a family member all you have to say is your sick!

Scott · 19-03-2010, 07:50 PM

I don't think jail would be suitable for that incident, I think that removing her licence for the three years was a good start. Add her own grief, a sincere apology to the family and 2 years worth of community service and I think the lesson would be learned.

I'm sure those who have lost people in such cases will disagree but my emotionless opinion is that jail is not the answer for making a mistake such as this.

Thornie · 19-03-2010, 07:53 PM

I think i'll just sit on what i have to say.

Franco Cozzo · 19-03-2010, 07:58 PM

2008, a bloody P plater killed my great grandma's partner 10 meters from their house. hit him at 60km/h while he was crossing the road, she got let off without any charges. He didn't die straight away either, he convulced on the floor for 20 or so seconds then died. He'd just got out of hospital and was starting to recover really well too.

Dad had to identify his mangled body. If i was there I would have wanted blood.

uranium_death · 19-03-2010, 08:13 PM

The legal system sucks. That is just the way it is.

If any of you are unhappy with the way things are, place some pressure on your state or federal MP. Venting displeasure is healthy, but it is unproductive. Write a carefully considered and well-written letter or email. I doubt much will happen, but if it's an issue you think is affecting the community, the pollies should at least have the courtesy to write back and deny everything and bury their heads in the sand.

T3man · 19-03-2010, 08:14 PM

I agree that the system has to be harder on offenders. Especially repeat offenders. However there are offenders and there are accidents. People make mistakes. And sure those mistakes can have dire consequences but sometimes the situation is just a simple tragedy and further punishment is not going to change history. All it will do is produce another victim.

Before anyone judges the person try putting yourself in their position.

Can you say you've never made a mistake in your life; or that you never will?

Have you ever lived with someone who suffers bipolar disorder? I'm not saying it excuses her, but it goes a long way to explaining why the judge decided against a custodial sentence.

**GasoLane** · 19-03-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

And what pray tell is the state of the prison system of today?

N.S.W...QLD...SA...NT...WA...TAS...ACT

**Burnout** · 19-03-2010, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

N.S.W...QLD...SA...NT...WA...TAS...ACT

Cheeky!

Adamz Ghia · 19-03-2010, 09:53 PM

I used to be all for longer gaol terms, but these days I think for things that are tragic accidents, community service is a good idea. The whole point if the justice system is to repay society for your wrongs. Gaol doesn't do this, it costs the tax payer more.

That's what this was, an accident, and to rob a family of their wife and mother will serve nothing. She will live with this for the rest of her life. Just let it go and let them get on with their lives.

Franco Cozzo · 19-03-2010, 10:04 PM

http://sunbury-leader.whereilive.com...in-goonawarra/

Except, he didn't live alone, and the police did nothing to track down his only surviving relitive, his sister which we had to do, police did jack crap, except get the coroner over and block off the intersection. He was 84, but he wasn't a moron, I seriously doubt he stepped in front of a car. Known hoon hotspot where he died.

Thats my family's experience with one of us being killed and the ************ who did it got away scott free. I wouldn't want jail, having blood on your hands is pretty horrible but a lengthy community service term, helping looking after my 94 year old great grandma who the driver has severely affected and cancelled drivers license would be in order.

geckoGT · 19-03-2010, 10:12 PM

Without knowing the full story and taking the information on face value, I need to disagree here. It seem that the driver "missed" the red light, meaning she was not paying attention. Therefore she was driving without taking due care and attention that is required of her by law, she was negligent, she should be held to answer for it.

Now this leaning on her Bi Polar, how is that relevant, was she in a state that she was not fit to drive? If so, why was she driving against warnings, she still retains responsibility here.

Custodial sentences are not just about teaching the person a lesson, they are also about sending a message out to other people that may end up in that situation. I believe many road users need to see that if you look down to change that CD, miss the red light and kill someone, you will get jail time. At least it might make some think twice about changing that CD at 80 km/h.

**Burnout** · 19-03-2010, 10:19 PM

And Bi-Polar, "zonked out on the meds as she is on a full downer at the moment."

Shouldn't be driving, shouldn't have a license being Bi-Polar.

mr smith · 19-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Getting real tired of this as an excuse for bad behaviour.........

Judge Montgomery took into account Waller's remorse, bipolar disorder, depression and thoughts of suicide after the crash. He found her mental state meant jail would weigh more heavily on her.

geckoGT · 19-03-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

And Bi-Polar, "zonked out on the meds as she is on a full downer at the moment."

Shouldn't be driving, shouldn't have a license being Bi-Polar.

Bi polar does not preclude someone from a license, I hope you did not take that from my comments. It just depends on the response to treatment and what meds they are on.

The feeling I got from the article is that she used her Bi polar to get out of a custodial sentence, that I disagree with.

geckoGT · 19-03-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

Getting real tired of this as an excuse for bad behaviour.........

Judge Montgomery took into account Waller's remorse, bipolar disorder, depression and thoughts of suicide after the crash. He found her mental state meant jail would weigh more heavily on her.

Yep, so terrible, going to kill myself, I don't know how I will survive. Then she skips out of the court house happy that she got out of it light. If I was the judge I would have slapped a Justice Examination Order on her and had her assessed under the Mental Health Act, obviously she either needs treatment or she should be fit to do her time.

**Burnout** · 19-03-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Bi polar does not preclude someone from a license, I hope you did not take that from my comments. It just depends on the response to treatment and what meds they are on.

The feeling I got from the article is that she used her Bi polar to get out of a custodial sentence, that I disagree with.

I would agree with you, however you & I have both observed those with the same condition who should not be in charge of a motor vehicle.

The sentencing authority in this case seemingly made no mention of it or made reference to a clinical state of the disorder at the time.
All of which I find interesting.........

It could be that the 'scribbler' who wrote the 'piece' didn't bother to add any of that in their prose.

Stattic · 19-03-2010, 10:44 PM

if you cant drive a car safely, you shouldnt be driving one
if you have a condition or are on medication which prevents you from driving safely, you should not be allowed to drive whilst they are in effect. its not a slur on someone for having bipolar or does that mean if im an alcoholic then im allowed to drink and drive? course not lol.
problem is, how could you possibly police it? "just breathe in here, it will tell us how depressed you are". just like fatigue, i nearly found out the hard way that sometimes you just shouldnt be driving but i was lucky and the lessons stuck without consequence

**Burnout** · 19-03-2010, 10:57 PM

Some few years ago a man, a cook by trade, left his place of work to travel in his car to an appointment with his GP in order to obtain a prescription for a serious disorder.
So he drove off eastwards along the Logan Motorway traveling no doubt near or at the speed limit of 100kph, where some distance down the road he swerved right over a median and into the path of an oncoming vehicle.

This resulted in the death of one of the occupants and the considerable injury to two more.

The Cook got sent to jail - the same jail in which he used to cook at the time of this prang.
He still has epilepsy.

XR Martin · 19-03-2010, 11:05 PM

This guy got two years gaol (suspended after four months) for exactly the same thing.

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news...-1225798605451

JACK250 · 19-03-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

And what pray tell is the state of the prison system of today?

Same as what it's always been. School for criminals, who get angry, more street smart, and generally lose respect for the system. Like I said but I don't hold all the answers, but prison doesn't rehabilitate like a lot of people like to think.

And yes deterrence is a factor, but I don't know if it's a big enough one to sentence someone to time in gaol. A lot of people would have a different opinion of gaol if they'd been in there or seen the conditions of most of them (not claiming I have, but have seen a few docos at school).

**Burnout** · 19-03-2010, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JACK250

Same as what it's always been. School for criminals, who get angry, more street smart, and generally lose respect for the system. Like I said but I don't hold all the answers, but prison doesn't rehabilitate like a lot of people like to think.

And yes deterrence is a factor, but I don't know if it's a big enough one to sentence someone to time in gaol. A lot of people would have a different opinion of gaol if they'd been in there or seen the conditions of most of them (not claiming I have, but have seen a few docos at school).

With respect to your opinion, that is a very simplified approach to prisons, which are so much more than this. To say prisons don't rehabilitate, is not correct, there are some who are rehabilitated by the system. Just as there are some who are those so selfish and anti-social, that no prison could rehabilitate them. You could say that being in goal is the best place for the anti-social people as, while they are there they are not offending while inside. This is equally simplified as the anti-social are offending inside as a way of life. Modern corrections cannot prevent it.

Deterrence is a factor, one would hope in all sentencing.

We all tend to judge the guilty depending upon our own values, our environmental upbringing or at times our political leanings. Further we are sometimes swayed in our judgment of offenders by those who present the offenses and the offender in the media.

geckoGT · 19-03-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

Some few years ago a man, a cook by trade, left his place of work to travel in his car to an appointment with his GP in order to obtain a prescription for a serious disorder.
So he drove off eastwards along the Logan Motorway traveling no doubt near or at the speed limit of 100kph, where some distance down the road he swerved right over a median and into the path of an oncoming vehicle.

This resulted in the death of one of the occupants and the considerable injury to two more.

The Cook got sent to jail - the same jail in which he used to cook at the time of this prang.
He still has epilepsy.

And so he should, he knew he was an epileptic, he knew he had not taken his meds, he knew he is not legally allowed to drive in this situation.

If we attend an epileptic who has a seizure, they have to be taken to hospital or our medical director has to be contacted if we believe they were in control of a motor vehicle. The department of transport has to be notified of their uncontrolled epilepsy and their license suspended.

Scott · 19-03-2010, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

she was negligent, she should be held to answer for it.

Like being banned for 3 years and having to live with it for the rest of her life? I cannot imagine trying to sleep without having that moment flash before your eyes - how long does being responsible for killing someone hang around? A lot longer than a few months in jail I would bet.

I think about it as if me, a friend or family member was the one on trial - how would I like it if my morally upstanding, honest, caring, die-for-her-family mother had made this mistake?

I know she'd be destroyed over it and I would be there to help pick up the pieces. No-one means to make a mistake, humans are human and at some point it must be accepted that being human is reason enough not to be stuck in a cage to ruin your already shattered existence.