Nelson Mandela

[Madaya]

Rest In Peace Nelson.

[jpblue1000]

May his memory resonate amongst the free and bound for a long time to come.
A dedicated, principled and great man despite some flaws.

RIP in the knowledge you made a positive difference.

JP

[zipping]

Yes RIP Mandela. What a great contribution to his country.

[XWGT]

R.I.P Nelson Mandela.
A peaceful man who stood tall.
You will be missed

[XW-BAXR6T]

R.I.P great man.

[Papa Smurf]

R.I.P. Nelson Mandela.
For a man who had such a hard life he sure made a difference
in the country and in the lives of people he loved.

[monzie]

Originally Posted by zipping

Yes RIP Mandela. What a great contribution to his country.

In later life, yes, but in his younger days he belonged to a movement that used such things as a "petrol neckless" on those that didn't agree with there cause.

Pete

[ebxr8240]

At rest at last.. Very patient Man..
For all that has been done to him he didn't have any bitterness..

Rugby games against South Africa will remind me of him..

[LG17]

RIP Nelson Mandela.

Yes he wasn't necessarily an "angel" in his youth but he never veered from what he believed in and became arguably the greatest man of his time.
I only hope that those who follow to make his dream come totally true have the patience and fortitude to do it right.

[mr smith]

Is SA a better place?

[nstg8a]

Finally the old fella gets a rest...

Rip Nelson Mandela.

[Maka]

RIP Madiba, you done your people proud & set an example for others around the world to follow. Truly a father of a nation.


cheers, Maka

[uniacidz]

RIP Mandela

[jg33ht]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Is SA a better place?

We know the answer to that as it's the rape and murder capital of the world..

President Botha offered to release Mandela in 1985 if he was willing to categorically reject violence as a means to reaching his goals. Of course he rejected the offer.

So I guess since apartheid has been abolished since '94, SA should have moved forward in leaps and bounds as those evil white people were holding back the blacks...

Mandela, hero or terrorist?

Saviour of SA or destroyer?

[jawmalawm23]

27 years in prison and not a sign of bitterness toward the people that put him there, forgiving is a powerful thing. What a great man, he not only helped his own country but the world to see what true humility is. Rest In Peace Nelson Mandela

[Corzza]

Madiba was given a great send off yesterday.

[GK]

Originally Posted by jg33ht

We know the answer to that as it's the rape and murder capital of the world..

President Botha offered to release Mandela in 1985 if he was willing to categorically reject violence as a means to reaching his goals. Of course he rejected the offer.

So I guess since apartheid has been abolished since '94, SA should have moved forward in leaps and bounds as those evil white people were holding back the blacks...

Mandela, hero or terrorist?

Saviour of SA or destroyer?

Brave comments. You will most certainly be in the minority. I have been fed a steady diet of the MSM Mandela worship my whole life, but only a few souls have dared to offer a version of history different from the accepted and popular view.

GK

[smoo]

Originally Posted by GK

Brave comments. You will most certainly be in the minority. I have been fed a steady diet of the MSM Mandela worship my whole life, but only a few souls have dared to offer a version of history different from the accepted and popular view.

GK

As usual, don't expect the liberal leftist lamestream media to present both sides of the story going against the usual worship of their commie terrorist poster boy...

[Serial_Fool]

For those praising Mandella as some kind of demi-god, read up on "necklacing" and what his ex-wife got up to while he was imprisoned.

Absolutely disgusting.

[gtfpv]

never studdied this man . whats the verdict . we're told he is some sort of saviour to racism in STH AFRICA .

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

For those praising Mandela as some kind of demi-god, read up on "necklacing"

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Absolutely disgusting.

And think about what a Winston Churchill unleashed on the people of Germany during WW2. Carpet bombing of civilians is pretty disgusting but was done as it needed doing. Sometimes great men and women need to do things that are unpopular, that are bad or even evil but in the fight for freedom and right sometimes eggs need to be broken.
Mandela was no angel, almost every great leader isn’t, what he became came from an unwavering belief in his cause (you may disagree his cause was right but that was his cause) he held true and pursued that belief utilising whatever means he saw fit and would work.
We shouldn’t have double standards for white men in power and black men fighting for freedom.
Is South Africa a better place? The vast majority of the countries people are free compared to pre 1990, there is still strife but change takes many generations. It may never get better, but that is not the point. The reason for Mandela's status is that he achieved his goal despite the massive odds against him, he set the country on a course towards a better world, can those that follow match him? maybe not.
Is Mandela a hero or terrorist? I guess to the majority of the world (leftist commies that we may be who despised Apartheid) he is a hero. To those that appose his goals a terrorist. But there is no doubt he was a leader of great repute something all countries should aspire too.
JP

[Serial_Fool]

If we are going to use Winston Churchil (another man that I think is unduly praised as being some kind of supreme leader) and the bombing of Germany, it's quite well acknowledged by historians that the bombing of Dresden was a war crime that didn't contribute to the defeat of Germany in any significant way.

In fact, much of the aerial carpet bombing of WW2 had little to no effect on production for the Reich (war production peaking in 1944). That's a story for another day however.

Mandella hardly campaigned for freedom, no more than Mugabe to the north did. He was convicted for being a terrorist, thrown in gaol, and was free from the mid-1980s onwards under the provision that he didn't take up arms against South Africa. He chose to stay in gaol.

The economic position of black South Africans has declined heavily since 1994. Hardly freedom at all if you can't feed yourself.

South Africa is now a worse place because of the ANC. Ever wonder why we have so many South Africans fleeing to our shores? A direct result of our own political class getting together and advocating sanctions on South Africa, Rhodesia and any other country that dared to go against the agenda of decolonization.

Yet we're the result of successful colonization, the height of hypocrisy.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

If we are going to use Winston Churchil (another man that I think is unduly praised as being some kind of supreme leader) and the bombing of Germany, it's quite well acknowledged by historians that the bombing of Dresden was a war crime that didn't contribute to the defeat of Germany in any significant way.

In fact, much of the aerial carpet bombing of WW2 had little to no effect on production for the Reich (war production peaking in 1944). That's a story for another day however.

Mandella hardly campaigned for freedom, no more than Mugabe to the north did. He was convicted for being a terrorist, thrown in gaol, and was free from the mid-1980s onwards under the provision that he didn't take up arms against South Africa. He chose to stay in gaol.

The economic position of black South Africans has declined heavily since 1994. Hardly freedom at all if you can't feed yourself.

South Africa is now a worse place because of the ANC. Ever wonder why we have so many South Africans fleeing to our shores? A direct result of our own political class getting together and advocating sanctions on South Africa, Rhodesia and any other country that dared to go against the agenda of decolonization.

Yet we're the result of successful colonization, the height of hypocrisy.

Interesting observation... You don't often hear a point of view from this angle...

[jpblue1000]

[QUOTE=Serial_Fool;4959705]
The economic position of black South Africans has declined heavily since 1994. Hardly freedom at all if you can't feed yourself.

South Africa is now a worse place because of the ANC. Ever wonder why we have so many South Africans fleeing to our shores? QUOTE]

I have no doubt that South Africa (SA) has its problems as with much of Africa as a result of White or corporate invasions, abuses and continued manipulation. I do believe however the majority of the SA poulation is free to make their own decisions something until the fall of Apartheid they could not.
The freedom to make your own decision is something we in the west hold precious as a tenant of our being, yet we feel free to acuse those trying to achieve freedom as terrorists, troublemakers and or villains. yet we ignore our own ancestors fights for those exact rights we hold so true.
Yes there are many South Africans fleeing the country, those with the means to do so. In my experience that means white people. but if all the whites left ( I am not arguing for this) that would account for about 10 percent of the current legal population.
Ill tell you now, if 10 percent of the population of Australia had legalised, institutionalised and ingrained better rights and opportunities than my majority I too would rise against them, deal with the consequences later.
Reminds me of the old and apt saying better to dies on your feet then live on your knees.

JP

[Serial_Fool]

I have no doubt that South Africa (SA) has its problems as with much of Africa as a result of White or corporate invasions, abuses and continued manipulation.

JP

Everything apparently is the white devil's fault, we tend to forget that without the evil colonizers there wouldn't have been a nation state in the first place.

Much like Australia.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Serial_Fool

Everything apparently is the white devil's fault, we tend to forget that without the evil colonizers there wouldn't have been a nation state in the first place.

Much like Australia.

From a colonial point of view the colonisers are never wrong, they bring white rules, commerce and the so called nation state. (who says that is good, desireable or called for... usually only white people?)

From the local African tribes point of view the colonisers were wrong because they were not invited, enforced enslavement, persecution and caused many of the troubles that Africa faces today. Their actions resulted in Apartheid, a loss of Freedom.
In my mind the whites of history are to blame, because they were in the wrong. I don’t believe what White cultures have offered the world is the ultimate goal of all earths peoples.
And how dare we as white people force our different ideals on others, under the guise of we know better, when the reality was the whites needed to control the locals to gain financial benefit of trade, mining, manufacturing and pillage of the old world.

JP

[superyob]

Society does tend to blame the white man for every evil but turn a blind eye and mutter something about 'culture' when looking at other races. And yes the white man certainly has a lot to answer for. But let's not forget that other tribes of differing origins were only too willing to inflict the same crimes the white man is guilty of on each other. This is vastly overlooked, leading to the commonly held notion that only whites are racist. The white man just found the means to colonise/subjugate en masse before anyone else did. If the shoe was on the other foot, could Asia have colonised Europe at sword point? Oh wait, they did with Attila the Hun and his Mongols. Fortunately he died before Western Europe fell. And while I am on the subject, past events cannot be judged by modern values...
I am over the application of modern day values on events from another age...

On the subject of Nelson Mandela, I can only assume that the people loved him for being a symbol of freedom and he obviously struck a chord with both white and black. I think history will remember him fondly...

[Windsor]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

And think about what a Winston Churchill unleashed on the people of Germany during WW2. Carpet bombing of civilians is pretty disgusting but was done as it needed doing. Sometimes great men and women need to do things that are unpopular, that are bad or even evil but in the fight for freedom and right sometimes eggs need to be broken.
Mandela was no angel, almost every great leader isn’t, what he became came from an unwavering belief in his cause (you may disagree his cause was right but that was his cause) he held true and pursued that belief utilising whatever means he saw fit and would work.
We shouldn’t have double standards for white men in power and black men fighting for freedom.
Is South Africa a better place? The vast majority of the countries people are free compared to pre 1990, there is still strife but change takes many generations. It may never get better, but that is not the point. The reason for Mandela's status is that he achieved his goal despite the massive odds against him, he set the country on a course towards a better world, can those that follow match him? maybe not.
Is Mandela a hero or terrorist? I guess to the majority of the world (leftist commies that we may be who despised Apartheid) he is a hero. To those that appose his goals a terrorist. But there is no doubt he was a leader of great repute something all countries should aspire too.
JP

Adolf Hitler was a man who fought for his country & to bring it back from the brink of ruin (which he did rather successfully). But everyone looks at him as the boogeyman of the 20th century..By your rationale & words, Hitler should be a man you & all other countries should aspire too?

Cheers,
Steve.B

[Serial_Fool]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Adolf Hitler was a man who fought for his country & to bring it back from the brink of ruin (which he did rather successfully). But everyone looks at him as the boogeyman of the 20th century..By your rationale & words, Hitler should be a man you & all other countries should aspire too?

Cheers,
Steve.B

The Germans certainly did after the battle of france, not so much after the end of WW2. Ultimately his actions left Germany in way that was even worse than in 1918. It's all about perspective.

Time will tell if South Africa progresses into becoming a 1st world country, though I highly doubt it.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Windsor

Adolf Hitler was a man who fought for his country & to bring it back from the brink of ruin (which he did rather successfully). But everyone looks at him as the boogeyman of the 20th century..By your rationale & words, Hitler should be a man you & all other countries should aspire too?

Cheers,
Steve.B

And your point.
If it wasn't for the genocide the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nazi) would be seen in a completely different light. (hard to process I know)
A nationally progressive party that introduced many policies our own governments use today, that many of us take for granted or even aspire too. (besides geoncide and annexation)
A state funded Welfare system, animal rights, national parks, medical breakthroughs (experimentation on humans was rife across the globe back then) the mass produced peoples car, autobahns, rocketry propaganda and film.
I'm not suggesting a change of opinion for the Nazi party and Hitler etal but there are always two sides to a story and two matching opinions. From obvious evil came some good and from good comes absolute evil.

JP