More Koreans for Holden

[ltd]

More Koreans in Holden's line-up


The Epica, made in Korea but partially developed in Australia, replaces the German-built Vectra
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30 January 2007

Gordon Lomas

More Korean blood will flow through Holden's product line-up when the Epica sedan makes its Australian premiere at Brisbane International Motor Show at Brisbane Convention Centre starting on Friday.

The Epica becomes the fourth Korean-sourced product after the Barina, Viva and Captiva to join the local range.

It is essentially a replacement for the Opel-built Vectra that was imported from Europe.

The Epica will come with a choice of two in-line six-cylinder engines — a 2-litre or 2.5-litre CDX and CDXi.

It comes from the General Motors plant in Bupyong in South Korea but extensive development was undertaken at Holden's Lang Lang proving ground outside Melbourne to tune its suspension for Australian conditions.

While these highlight the arrival of Holden's first fresh product for 2007, the Melbourne-based manufacturer is also using the Brisbane show to launch a new Rodeo variant.

The current Rodeo, which was launched at the Brisbane show a few seasons ago, will welcome a new turbo diesel powerplant.

The 3-litre common-rail unit produces 120kW and is said to be the most powerful oil-burner to date in the Rodeo line-up.


Another sure to attract its fair share of admirers is the Astra TwinTop, Holden's replacement for the convertible soft-top Astra.

Following the trend set these days by the Europeans, Holden has moved to a metal folding top for the convertible Astra.

It will share the limelight with the BMW 3-series convertible which makes its Australian debut in Brisbane less than two weeks after its international press launch in the United States.

The Astra's metal roof, electronically controlled, takes 30 seconds to tuck away while the E93 model 3-series takes only 22 seconds.

Holden says the new diesel Rodeo develops 25 per cent more peak power at lower revs and the new powerplant meets Euro 4 emissions standards.

Along with the new oil burning engine there have been a few nips and tucks to its exterior with reworked front and rear fascias, a meaner induction bonnet scoop and updated fender flares.

A comprehensive range of Holden's award-winning VE Commodores will dominate the stand including a cutaway display of the VE Calais V8 which won the CARSguide Car Of The Year in 2006.

The Courier-Mail

Seems as though the die has been cast for more of GM's global plans, as well as a desire to come up with cars for much less money. This does not necessarily mean good news for ford aus, as Holden is sure to source more Korean content for the commodores and ergo undercut the price of falcon which will erode ford aus' profitability; less funds, less development and less viability. Ford may have to look at having stuff built in China at this rate to remain competitive, sort of makes you feel sorry for the employees in both camps.

[GXL078]

Holden means a great deal to Korea. This is a Ford forum. Post stuff about Fords will you.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Holden means a great deal to Korea. This is a Ford forum. Post stuff about Fords will you.

Mate that line is getting old, and I for one dont want to read about Fords all day long.

Well, it makes business sense in the short term to sell these cars, whether that comes back to bite them on the butt is yet to be seen.

Those euro spec "Holdens" are good cars.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Holden means a great deal to Korea. This is a Ford forum. Post stuff about Fords will you.

What, and you can't see this having an effect on ford can't you?
Read what I wrote in my original post again, that was about how this will affect ford and what the potential ramifications of such a move will be. If you missed that message in my post then obviously you must prefer pointless and pretentious erudition.

[chevypower]

Just freakin keep the Opel Astra in the lineup. Whats this crap about Holden developed? they claim everything. Some people think the Captiva is developed by Holden - where as only the engine is supplied by Holden. On the Chevrolet UK website, it claims links to the Suburban (cos of the Chevrolet brand). Let's face reality here. The Captiva is mostly Daewoo, Daewoo was bought out by GM, Daewoo is branded as Chevrolet now in Europe and under the Holden name in Australia. Even the names Epica, Nubira and Captiva all sound like they share a common theme

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Even the names Epica, Nubira and Captiva all sound like they share a common theme

Yeah they all sound gay :ymca:

[charles_wif_xf]

Holden might make a bit of money in the short term, but dumping the Europeans will bite them in the a$$ big time. I've had the misfortune of driving the new Koreans and boy they are so ordinary. My friend's 4 year old Astra with 150,000 kays on the clock feels a helluva lot better than any of the new P.O.S badged as Holden.

[ltd]

Agreed charles, the captiva was recently tested by drive and they only gave it 3 stars, whereas the territory was given 4. They also trashed the claimed and actual fuel consumption, as well as the overall sense of lacking in the vehicle. It starts to become apparent that ford may in fact win the battle for sales, what with the german focus versus a rebadged daewoo. Time will tell which one got it right, but I think the Holden group may be on a bit of a loser here. Ford really do need to capitalise on this though with some clever marketing.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by ltd

Ford really do need to capitalise on this though with some clever marketing.

Agree.

If ford are going to market anything right this year, it has to be everything else other than the Falcon.

Point out the fact that they are daewoo's, you dont have to do it so its obvious, but subtle quality remarks etc would be funny.

There you go FoA, if you are to have any chance, as GM are going to cain you on price, point of their negatives damn you!

[xr8-200]

I think any weakness in Holdens line up will probably help Toyota more than Ford, after all isnt this the part of the market where they are already strong.

[drcook]

Originally Posted by ltd

Agreed charles, the captiva was recently tested by drive and they only gave it 3 stars, whereas the territory was given 4. They also trashed the claimed and actual fuel consumption, as well as the overall sense of lacking in the vehicle. It starts to become apparent that ford may in fact win the battle for sales, what with the german focus versus a rebadged daewoo. Time will tell which one got it right, but I think the Holden group may be on a bit of a loser here. Ford really do need to capitalise on this though with some clever marketing.

i think holden are onto the winner here, as sad as it is to say. more and more people these days dont care about dynamics, build location or cars being re-badged. they want cheap, cheap, cheap.

lets face it, the sort of person who buys a barina/epica is too busy trying to work out what cute name they'll call it instead of working out that its a cheap tin-can rip-off, rebadged and sold with a great profit margin for holden.

[drcook]

Originally Posted by xcgxl

Holden means a great deal to Korea. This is a Ford forum. Post stuff about Fords will you.

tool.

[robs_ls1]

Originally Posted by ltd

Seems as though the die has been cast for more of GM's global plans, as well as a desire to come up with cars for much less money. This does not necessarily mean good news for ford aus, as Holden is sure to source more Korean content for the commodores and ergo undercut the price of falcon which will erode ford aus' profitability; less funds, less development and less viability. Ford may have to look at having stuff built in China at this rate to remain competitive, sort of makes you feel sorry for the employees in both camps.

I've been saying that since ION fell over. I don't think we realised how bad things were up to that point. Anyhow, Holden have been making the Statesman in China for a while now. I wonder how long before they start selling some of those ones here? If Ford Australia haven't (at the very least) evaluated this option yet, then they are doomed to fail.

Like it or not, the Australian motor industry is dying a long, slow, painful death. The government doesn't care that all these so-called "free trade agreements" are killing it, either.

Originally Posted by charles_wif_xf

Holden might make a bit of money in the short term, but dumping the Europeans will bite them in the a$$ big time.

You might be right, but in the mean time they're raking it in. In the entire history of the Barina, they've never sold as many as they have since they started bringing them in from Korea. Personally, I think that that particular market segment doesn't care about cars. They want basic transport and will only spend $15K on a new one once the wheels fall off the old one.

Originally Posted by Polyal

Point out the fact that they are daewoo's

They don't need to. Everyone who cares about cars already knows this, because it has been written in virtually every car magazine in Australia. The thing is, most of that market segment couldn't care. All they want is a cheap car.

[LeadFoot81]

In the short term Holden are supplying the Aust. public with underwhelming POS Korean built cars with Holden badges, undercutting their competition on pricing. In the long term, Holden will supply the Aust. public with Australian designed (half decent) Korean bulit cars with Holden badges, undercutting their competition on pricing.

Whether the dodgy cars they sell now will ruin Holden's credibility before the better stuff comes along, we'll have to wait and see. Holden have done achieved great things with dodgy cars sourced from overseas (Commodore 1978-2006)

This is all very dangerous for Ford. Hopefully FoMoCo will start building more models south of the equator, Focus, Fiesta, Mondeo sourced from South Africa or the Asian region.

[ltd]

drcook, good point mate. Most of the smaller Holden appear to be women enamoured with naming their cars "cute" names like bunny barina etc.
Maybe some of them will test drive the competition and notice a discernable difference sufficient to make them go to Honda, Toyota, Ford or even peugot.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Inline6

In the short term Holden are supplying the Aust. public with underwhelming POS Korean built cars with Holden badges, undercutting their competition on pricing. In the long term, Holden will supply the Aust. public with Australian designed (half decent) Korean bulit cars with Holden badges, undercutting their competition on pricing.

Whether the dodgy cars they sell now will ruin Holden's credibility before the better stuff comes along, we'll have to wait and see. Holden have done achieved great things with dodgy cars sourced from overseas (Commodore 1978-2006)

This is all very dangerous for Ford. Hopefully FoMoCo will start building more models south of the equator, Focus, Fiesta, Mondeo sourced from South Africa or the Asian region.

Good points all.
Time will tell what happens, looks as though the price really does determine buying trends, therefore pretty much pre empting what Holden will do to win the sales race against Toyota and Ford. Particularly true when the venerable Orion finally goes on sale, and Holden are left in a bit of a quandry as to how to move stock. Probably will source majority from South Korea and undercut the crap out of the ford. The future for manufacturing in this country certainly is looking bleak.

[LeadFoot81]

In the current national and internation climate, cars designed specifically for any one country and built IN any one country just wont cut it anymore. Globalisation is the key to Ford Oz and Holdens survival (not to mention the parent companies) What this mean for local manufacturing I dont know. Tough times ahead, but we may end up with better and cheaper products overall.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Just letting people know that cars are going BOTH directions...

I have just returned from Korea, and if the pics I have taken of the Epica (called Tosca in Korea) are correct than the car will look pretty good for the local line up.

Cheers,
Jason

[ltd]

I don't know, the vectra crowd seem pretty devoted to the european thing, and the origins of daewoo may make them a little more selective. I realise the Barina type don't much care about the car, but the vectra crowd are happy to spend up to $46000.00 on an opel derived 4 door; I can't see them loving this.

Looks like it wants to be a camry, but is too tall and narrow to achieve it.

[ltd]

Just as a sidenote, I must admit I'm really impressed with the genuine and thoughtful responses in this post, it seems to be a reasoned debate without any of the Holden vs Ford denigration. I know this because often I have partaken in aforementioned denigration, but it's encouraging to have such a reasonable debate nonetheless.

[robs_ls1]

Originally Posted by ltd

I realise the Barina type don't much care about the car, but the vectra crowd are happy to spend up to $46000.00 on an opel derived 4 door; I can't see them loving this.

Have to agree with you there. Those customers must be a minority that Holden don't mind losing.

Originally Posted by ltd

Just as a sidenote, I must admit I'm really impressed with the genuine and thoughtful responses in this post, it seems to be a reasoned debate without any of the Holden vs Ford denigration.

Can I just say that there have been a few derogatory & immature comments made. Some of which are hard to ignore, but we are because this is a Ford forum after all. :

[merlin]

Originally Posted by drcook

as sad as it is to say. more and more people these days dont care about dynamics, build location or cars being re-badged. they want cheap, cheap, cheap.

lets face it, the sort of person who buys a barina/epica is too busy trying to work out what cute name they'll call it instead of working out that its a cheap tin-can rip-off, rebadged and sold with a great profit margin for holden.

I agree as I have witnessed it first hand. Wether it is a good move though or not I am not sure - it has the potential to massivly devalue the brand "Holden". Just look at Hyundia - they actually make some damn nice cars now but they still cant shake the Excel tag of the "cheap, POS, Korean".

[LeadFoot81]

Holden just have this aura about them. It's all in the marketing, and the history they've built up around themselves. On reputation alone they should be able to weather the current crop of Daewoos until the better stuff comes along. Regardelss of where the cars come from (or in some cases how good they are), Holden is either the little Aussie Battler, or King of the hill and everyone wants a piece, wheres people think of Ford Oz as the yankee car company, and...meh who cares. I think this (and Holdens Korean imports) are the reason Ford are so ferverently trying to make themselves appear as Euro as possible. Are low volume 'euro' sales better than high volume 'korean' sales? Time will tell.

Hyundai will quickly swap the el cheapo reputation (if they keep going down the right track with cars like the new Sonata, Santa Fe) for a cheapo but alrite reputation.

[ltd]

So if Holden manage to trade their way through the suspected dubious quality period, do you agree that they would certainly look at outsourcing a lot more of the commodores suppliers to Korean shores in order to save money?
By that I mean make the car in Korea in CKD form and assemble it here, and then say it was built in Oz and is still an Oz car/company.
I think this "cheaper means more sales" attitude that Holden have displayed on the commodore as well as on other replacement Daewoo's may have set a precedent that is too attractive on the books to ignore. Buy a car for 6K, sell for 15K on the road, make big profit as opposed to buy same for 11K, sell for 15K, make less profit.
I can honestly see them being the first Australian car maker to move their production offshore. Anyone agree?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by ltd

So if Holden manage to trade their way through the suspected dubious quality period, do you agree that they would certainly look at outsourcing a lot more of the commodores suppliers to Korean shores in order to save money?
By that I mean make the car in Korea in CKD form and assemble it here, and then say it was built in Oz and is still an Oz car/company.
I think this "cheaper means more sales" attitude that Holden have displayed on the commodore as well as on other replacement Daewoo's may have set a precedent that is too attractive on the books to ignore. Buy a car for 6K, sell for 15K on the road, make big profit as opposed to buy same for 11K, sell for 15K, make less profit.
I can honestly see them being the first Australian car maker to move their production offshore. Anyone agree?

Probably - but they will still manufacture one bolt here or something so their marketing department can claim it is "Aussie tuned and bred"

[MeestaNob!]

Cant wait for Mondeo Vs Epica.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by MeestaNob!

Cant wait for Mondeo Vs Epica.

Has it been confirmed that Ford Aus are getting the Mondeo?
Only problem will likely be price because I'd bet Holden try to obliterate the competition with the Epica by pricing it in the low 20K area. From recollection I thought the Mondeo was going to be around the 30K mark.

[XRchic]

I saw a Daewoo Barina sitting next to an Astra at the dealership on Unley Rd the other day, and I have to say the difference between the two in terms of quality, appearance, style, etc was astounding. They just look so different. The Astra looked sturdy, well built, finished nicely and styled well - whereas the Barina looked cheap, tinny, poorly finished and styled and just really bland and yuk.

If you look at the two together and compare things like headlights, bumpers, paint, panel fit, door handles, wheels, grilles, etc.. you can really see how bad the Daewoos really are.

I really am surprised that they sell so well, because I thought the average female really wouldnt want to go that cheap. My Mum wouldnt touch one of those and even if she would, my Dad would put a stop to that very quickly. My Mum is very girly girly but she isnt stupid. She has a Mazda 6. I would have thought that most females out there were more intelligent than to be fooled by a low price - "you get what you pay for" is not a new slogan.

If there are lots of females buying them, then I have to say that Im ashamed of them, and myself in having overestimated the intelligence of my own species!

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by ltd

So if Holden manage to trade their way through the suspected dubious quality period, do you agree that they would certainly look at outsourcing a lot more of the commodores suppliers to Korean shores in order to save money?
By that I mean make the car in Korea in CKD form and assemble it here, and then say it was built in Oz and is still an Oz car/company.
I think this "cheaper means more sales" attitude that Holden have displayed on the commodore as well as on other replacement Daewoo's may have set a precedent that is too attractive on the books to ignore. Buy a car for 6K, sell for 15K on the road, make big profit as opposed to buy same for 11K, sell for 15K, make less profit.
I can honestly see them being the first Australian car maker to move their production offshore. Anyone agree?

Defnitely! Why wouldnt you outsource if it was cheaper and as good (and god forbid better)
Slowly more bits of the Commodore will be outsourced until the whole thing is built over there. As long as its designed over here, we'll still be getting an 'Aussie' car to suit our tastes but much cheaper, with the unfortunate side effect of Aussie jobs lost.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by MeestaNob!

Cant wait for Mondeo Vs Epica.

The result of that contest is a no brainer!!!