What the hell is going wrong with some of us Men??…

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 08:10 AM

16 Charged over "pack" Rape:

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...006301,00.html

There has been literally dozens of these cases over the past 12 months...

Well I’m not sure how or what to say but this sickens me to the core, and to be honest I’ve had enough of reading about these kinds of things.
What’s going wrong with society in Australia? What’s going wrong in the minds of some Youths/Men...? especially when they get together in groups?
Why doesn’t at-least 1 of them have a conscience and be a man and stop this from happening? 16 guys involved????
Why do some think its ok to disrespect women like this? I’m fed up with it… it’s about time as a society and as individuals we take a stronger pro active stand against this kind of behavior.
Women can and should not “trust” human nature in what should be a civilized safe society.
We're at a point where women need to avoid situations where they could be taken advantage of…
Come on guys... this is despicable..

RG · 29-10-2009, 08:22 AM

Very true Norm, not much I can say here.

What astounds me though is the club coming out and saying that those involved hadn't been involved in any classes on how to treat women. WTF??? Neither have I but FFS I don't need them, it's common bloody sense I thought.

GTJOHN · 29-10-2009, 08:34 AM

You need to attend classes now to learn how to behave and what is right & wrong ??
maybe a good swift kick up the backside when these clowns were growing up from parents would have taught them some respect .... To many dropkicks around nowdays

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RG

Very true Norm, not much I can say here.

What astounds me though is the club coming out and saying that those involved hadn't been involved in any classes on how to treat women. WTF??? Neither have I but FFS I don't need them, it's common bloody sense I thought.

Its quite frightening isn't it that in 2009 we need to train men on how to treat women with respect...

I do think though in light of all this that these workshops are a good pro active approach for sporting clubs.. because clearly the mindset of some is out of touch with common sense and decent moral behavior...

**Polyal** · 29-10-2009, 08:36 AM

I really dont get it either. Not only is it sick its freaking gay, I dont want to see my mate doing the nasty...seriously.

Yet again we call for harsher penalties but will it happen?

The other thing that gets my goat is how the media bring the AFL into it, its got nothing to do with the AFL its just some bumkin town full of DH's...ah!

MITCHAY · 29-10-2009, 08:43 AM

A lot of guys just have lack of respect for women generally in the way they talk and act, it's wrong and how these pigs get this attitude is beyond me.

**Polyal** · 29-10-2009, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

A lot of guys just have lack of respect for women generally in the way they talk and act, it's wrong and how these pigs get this attitude is beyond me.

Yeah I dont get it.

I dont know ANYONE that would even think of the idea and ive got a very large spread of friends/associates from all backgrounds/religions etc.

I honestly cant explain it.

Tom_Jane · 29-10-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

A lot of guys just have lack of respect for women generally in the way they talk and act, it's wrong and how these pigs get this attitude is beyond me.

Hold it. I love making the odd sexist joke. Political correctness is just evil incarnate.

But you will have a hard time finding a man who treats women as well I do.

And it is so true that very often only bad things result when people band together. For example if you go into Surfers Paradise and you see a bunch of guys walking together GET OUT OF THEIR WAY because you know they mean to pick a fight. Real tough guys they are too picking fights when they know they have the group to back them up.

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Yeah I dont get it.

I dont know ANYONE that would even think of the idea and ive got a very large spread of friends/associates from all backgrounds/religions etc.

I honestly cant explain it.

Yes..

What willing and consenting people do behind closed doors is their own business, group sex etc is a personal choice, and that in NOT what this is about.
Its been "suggested" that the portrayal of aggressive group sex (multiple men/1 girl) in porn is triggering this behavior...

This begs the question.. how are these people being bought up and how are their moral standards being formed? where is the compromise occurring? Home? school? social/peer or sporting environments? dare i say it the internet?
Why arent these people able to differentiate between fantasy and reality?

FGII-XR6 · 29-10-2009, 09:31 AM

the problem is we treat footballers as heros and they feel they are entitled to do as they want. this is no excuse for their actions just why they act like neanderthals.

it's time we realised that heroes are people who put their lives at risk to help others not a bunch of neanderthals who are good at a game

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

the problem is we treat footballers as heros and they feel they are entitled to do as they want. this is no excuse for their actions just why they act like neanderthals.

it's time we realised that heroes are people who put their lives at risk to help others not a bunch of neanderthals who are good at a game

The problem is not isolated or limited to "footballers".. we only hear about groups of footballers because the media get a reaction from it..

The problem is far greater reaching than just members of sporting codes..

A friend is a member of the sexual crimes unit for the V Police... its not a just a "footballer" issue..

RAMD67 · 29-10-2009, 09:41 AM

Of the 30 or so guys reported to be at the house why did not one of them raise the alarm with the cops?? How is it that so many men think that it is ok to do this to a woman...the younger generation is getting worse and worse and I'm only 26! There is a great difference to how me and my mates thought and acted towards women and how 18 year olds act today. Or maybe I was in the minority when I was growing up?

How would these guys feel if it was their mum, sister, daughter or relative that had to go through that ordeal?

The only solace is that these guys will get a right kicking in prison...which is a lot less of a punishment than what the two effected ladies will go through the rest of their lives.

A friend of mine was raped at 18 and she had a lot of issues ranging from body, trust, relationship problems both friends and men, self harming. It took her really until she was 21 before she could trust others again and go out to places.

It is a disgusting act and it troubles me that in a so called civil society that this happens so regularly. Education starts at home so I think that parents need to take some responsibility for this and step up and teach their kids how to act and behave and then when in a situation can make the correct judgment call and not continue to let this happen. Maybe our cities will finally start to be safe again at night!

Sorry rant over

FGII-XR6 · 29-10-2009, 09:50 AM

i'm not saying it's omly footballers but it is far more prevalent in this group they belive if they want they take because they are "heroes"

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The problem is not isolated or limited to "footballers".. we only hear about groups of footballers because the media get a reaction from it..

The problem is far greater reaching than just members of sporting codes..

A friend is a member of the sexual crimes unit for the V Police... its not a just a "footballer" issue..

RAMD67 · 29-10-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The problem is not isolated or limited to "footballers".. we only hear about groups of footballers because the media get a reaction from it..

The problem is far greater reaching than just members of sporting codes..

A friend is a member of the sexual crimes unit for the V Police... its not a just a "footballer" issue..

I also have a friend who is in a sexual crimes unit and she told me they are the busiest the have ever been which quite sad given the work the do... but she also said they are getting alot more convictions which is a small positive. It is also hard to get these bastards when victims do not want to press charges due to fear, shame etc. which might be some of the reasons why the other girl in this case hasn't taken it any further.

I agree with it being more than members of sporting codes...it is a growing cross section of our society. I'm not sure what has gone wrong with people but it isn't getting better.

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 10:08 AM

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

For those of you older guys out there can you imagine in our day mouthing off
at a cop or any other authority figue..... it just wouldn't have happened simply
because we were taught right from wrong from a very early age when telling
kids NO wasn't considered "negitive reinforcement".

I unfortunatly see this "no respect" happening with my own children because
thier hippy mother won't tell them no or dish out any real punishment when they
step out of line. Instead they get sent to time out in thier room which is of
course full of thier toys and all the other things they love.
At school is no better because there they get sent to the "responsible thinking chair".

Bring back the cane, bring back the wooden spoon, bring back the old mans boot.
Never did me any harm and I am sure as hell if it wasn't for these things I
would be in jail right now because I was some what of a little bast... when I
was a kid and all that kept me grounded was the above mentioned.

:

J.C. · 29-10-2009, 10:09 AM

Gee, I bet their mums are so proud of their little boys now ..........! MAGGOTS!

Line them up and give these animals all the press and public humiliation that they deserve. Shame them and give them the future that they deserve. None.

Let not beat around the bush here. We as individuals have choices and those choices me make directly affect our path into the future. This simple rule should apply to all, no matter who you may think you are. These people have made bad choices and decisions and they should, like everyone else within society, be held accountable.

My view about society in this country. We are lacking self discipline, respect for ourselves and other individuals along with the fact that there is no accountability. We do and say what we please with very little thought on how it may effect others or ourselves in the future. (Please note that this does not apply to all people. There are some truely good people out there but they are getting fewer as time goes on).

What can we do? Well, personally, I try to make a point of doing one out of my way good deed a day for someone. Honestly, respect and manners cost me nothing and it may just rub off onto someone else. It the small things that count and can make a difference. As my wife just mentioned after reading this, the pay it forward idea (she's a smart women).

I really don't have the answers on how to fix this. Just try and bring back old fashion values. That is how we raise our kids and make them aware that who we associate with will affects our lives (you hang out with scumbags, you will eventually be one). This is how we have been raising our kids and we have had many a compliments from friends, teachers etc about their attitudes and manners etc. This alone has had positive impact on my young daughter of 10yrs to the point where she is constantly helping out the less able children in her class group both in class and out in the play ground and the teachers are relying on her (which they tell us about) to help communicate with these kids and settle them down, some a which are aggressive when frustrated due to their disabilities (her grades are above average and improving ....... she got the brains from mum I reckon).

Back to basics may not be the only answer to our problems, but as a layman, I think it is a good starting point. It all starts at home at a very young age and what we as parents teacher them of what is acceptable and what is not.

As for the lad above, I hear you and smile. Those were the days. Nothing like a teacher breaking a T square across your a$re on a cold winters morning to bring you back into line. Yep. I was no saint as a child ..... but I soon learnt what was expected.

4Vman · 29-10-2009, 10:13 AM

Some very good points here guys.

Id be very interested to hear from some of our female members about how they perceive the way some men relate towards them, and women in general, especially in social situations..?

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 10:18 AM

Very well said JC.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAMD67

I'm only 26! There is a great difference to how me and my mates thought and acted towards women and how 18 year olds act today. Or maybe I was in the minority when I was growing up?

Same here. I had a few mates who were real low lifes but they would never stoop this low.

People like this should rot in jail for 25yrs minimum but alas our stupid legal system will give them nothing more than a slap on the wrist, sure they will (I hope) get jail time but it won't be sufficient to deter them. Whilst sometimes I disagree with the way other countries laws work, there are times I agree. In the U.S they would basically rot in jail for this, in other countries they would be shot. Maybe if our laws were not so crap people would be detered.

burnz · 29-10-2009, 10:25 AM

a lot of country's have the woman walk behind the man, must cover their faces, and are generally seen as sub human.
and the younger boy grow up learning this.

or am i being racist?

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

People like this should rot in jail for 25yrs minimum

At a cost of about 50k per year per inmate, times that by 25years $1,250000
times that by the 16 involved $20,000,000. Cost of 16 5 meter lengths of
decent rope is all of what $200 tops. Think the solution is right there.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

a lot of country's have the woman walk behind the man, must cover their faces, and are generally seen as sub human.
and the younger boy grow up learning this.

or am i being racist?

Yes but in this case I don't think these guys were from those backrounds.

SB076 · 29-10-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

For those of you older guys out there can you imagine in our day mouthing off
at a cop or any other authority figue..... it just wouldn't have happened simply
because we were taught right from wrong from a very early age when telling
kids NO wasn't considered "negitive reinforcement".

I unfortunatly see this "no respect" happening with my own children because
thier hippy mother won't tell them no or dish out any real punishment when they
step out of line. Instead they get sent to time out in thier room which is of
course full of thier toys and all the other things they love.
At school is no better because there they get sent to the "responsible thinking chair".

Bring back the cane, bring back the wooden spoon, bring back the old mans boot.
Never did me any harm and I am sure as hell if it wasn't for these things I
would be in jail right now because I was some what of a little bast... when I
was a kid and all that kept me grounded was the above mentioned.

:

I agree, there are issues out there in society that need to be addressed, unfortunately the vocal minority will come up with more rubbish and things will not improve.

Sperate but related issue, the police are in trouble for shooting a man that was threatening them with swords - herein lies the problem with society, in the past, your actions had conseqeunces. At present however there seems to be a big push to eliminate the consequences of your actions.

Magna · 29-10-2009, 10:42 AM

im all for what been said if its true but don't forget they havn't been found guilty yet.

Spudz27 · 29-10-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

I blame the do gooders and greenies holy and soly for this sort of behaviour.
For those of us who are a little older remember back to the days when smaking
children was ok, when getting the cane or strap or ruler at school was a part of
our disipilne. We knew the boundries we knew the lines and where they were
drawn. We didn't in most case stray to far over those lines because we knew
the consequences if we did. With this disipline we also learnt respect which is
what is missing in this picture and most of society today.

For those of you older guys out there can you imagine in our day mouthing off
at a cop or any other authority figue..... it just wouldn't have happened simply
because we were taught right from wrong from a very early age when telling
kids NO wasn't considered "negitive reinforcement".

I unfortunatly see this "no respect" happening with my own children because
thier hippy mother won't tell them no or dish out any real punishment when they
step out of line. Instead they get sent to time out in thier room which is of
course full of thier toys and all the other things they love.
At school is no better because there they get sent to the "responsible thinking chair".

Bring back the cane, bring back the wooden spoon, bring back the old mans boot.
Never did me any harm and I am sure as hell if it wasn't for these things I
would be in jail right now because I was some what of a little bast... when I
was a kid and all that kept me grounded was the above mentioned.

:

I don't know the age group you are targeting but I am 26 and I can tell you we didn't get the cane at school but I if I did something wrong I knew what to expect when I got home. I have 2 kids now a 3yr (nearly 4) old girl and an 8month old son. I smack (not hard but enough that she knows she did wrong after all she is 3) my daughter for backchatting us or doing something she knows was wrong before she did it, as I will do with my son when he is getting old enough to know right and wrong. We do have timeout for when a smack is not really warranted but it is in a corner facing a wall with no toys or anything.

ieatsports_cars · 29-10-2009, 10:52 AM

I my self have been a victom , men can also be victoms as well..... thats is all iam saying ,as a male i think it has destroyed my whole life.. and i agree with all above comments, in society today we tend to disrespect others quite alot driving, sexual acts, people in general, shop assistants, nurses, teachers, waiters, that is all i can think of at the moment. but we tends to forget that how do you want to get treated iam sure that they would not like to get treated in the same way.

burnz · 29-10-2009, 10:55 AM

well if you swear at a teacher you get suspended for two weeks, or is that two weeks holidays. i'm confused

(homer Mr burns said if you dont come in tommorrow dont come in to work monday)
wo ho four day weekend.

BIGJB · 29-10-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDfutura25

but I if I did something wrong I knew what to expect when I got home.

There you have it. That is basically my exact point.
Seriously have a look at alot of the young kids out there today when you
are at the shops. Look at the way they speak to thier parents. Or more importantly
the way thier parents interact with them when they are misbehaving.
You were obviously brought up with morals and respect which I am glad to see
you are trying to enstill on your own children which I commend you for.
I am not saying that there is anything wrong as such with time out if it is done correctly
and used in conjuction with other disiplinary actions. But to send a kid to time
out in thier room with there toys or my personal pet hate the responsible thinking
chair at school. ( I am talking a grade 1 childin this imparticular case)
is just stupidity and not going to teach them any consiquences what so ever.

BENT_8 · 29-10-2009, 10:59 AM

Bloody neanderthals!

I cant believe where society is headed in this country.
Why has this gang mentality emerged in young men?

Not a sexual assault, but just 2 days ago i witnessed half a dozen young men beating up a woman(one of their women) in our local shopping centre carpark.
They then walked into the shopping complex and bashed my neighbours son with chairs, an old bike, a bottle to the head, then chased him home and tore out roses from his front yard.
All cos he didnt have a smoke!

How bloody brave we've become!

RAMD67 · 29-10-2009, 11:05 AM

I was never smacked, got the strap or wooden spoon and have turned out alright. I have a healthy respect for authority, people and property.

I don't believe that you need to smack or hit as a form of punishment and I won't be enforcing it on my children. You can gain obedience and respect in other ways. But the real point is that I was obedient and I respect my father and mother and listen to them and absorbed the moral code the passed onto me.