Holden needs your cash to keep going

[stang65]

http://www.optuszoo.com.au/news/top/...p-going/933638

THE boss of Holden Mike Devereux says the company will follow Ford and shut its Australian factories if it doesn't get a commitment for enough taxpayer support to maintain its local loss-making operations.
The anxiety in the car industry has reached new levels in the lead-up to the Federal election given that the coalition has vowed to slash $500 million in assistance to automotive manufacturing, said to be a deal-breaker for Holden.

Holden's head of government affairs Matt Hobbs said at the weekend that any reduction in support to the industry would prompt the company to "cease manufacturing".

When asked today if that was true, Devereux told News Ltd: "Absolutely true. If there is no comprehensive competitive approach to automotive policy … no question [we will cease manufacturing]."

Devereux said shutting the Holden factories is a last resort and a decision he hopes not to make.

"How would it make me feel emotionally [to shut the factories]? I don't have the luxury of emotion in this. I think it would be the wrong decision for the country because I think Australia will not always have the exact same set of combined economic circumstances that it's dealing with right now," he said, referring to the record high Australian dollar, low tariffs and overall economic strength due to the mining boom.

"To mortgage your future as a country of making things, because of a particular point in time right now, to assume that this set of conditions will be true in 10 to 15 years from now, I think is illogical," he said.

Devereux said Holden had no preference over which government will lead the country after the federal election, but he said a commitment needed to be made "sooner rather than later".

"We're having very specific dialogue with both sides of government every week," he said. "We need clear, consistent and competitive policy over long periods of time to make billion-dollar investments, or you can't make cars in this country. I think there is a common sense component in both parties. I think people understand what's at stake."

Minister for Industry and Innovation Greg Combet said Devereux's comments prove a Tony Abbott-led government would result in increased job losses in car manufacturing in Australia.

"The Coalition's policy would kill the auto manufacturing industry in Australia stone dead," he said in a statement.

"It would mean the loss of tens of thousands of jobs with serious consequences for local communities and the wider manufacturing sector.

"Labor is providing $5.4 billion in support to 2020.

"By contrast, Tony Abbott would cut support by $500 million between now and 2015 and has refused to reveal the level or structure of support which the Coalition would provide beyond 2015.

"The automotive manufacturers need long-term certainty on government support so they can make the critical investment decisions which will determine the future of this important industry."

Devereux's comments comes as the Productivity Commission's Annual Report on trade and assistance for 2011 to 2012 found that the car industry receives more support than other manufacturing sectors, and other industries.

The report found the "effective rate of assistance" for manufacturers is about 4 per cent and for agriculture is about 3 per cent - but the level of assistance for motor vehicle manufacturers was more than 9 per cent.

Devereux defended the taxpayer assistance, pointing out that it had come down over the past six years and the industry received less assistance than other sectors such as mining.

"Plus, the multiplier effect in the economy is greater than it is in other sectors. You buy more when you give [the car industry] $100 million. In many of these other sectors there aren't any multiplier effects."

Government assistance to car manufacturers was a "fact of life everywhere in the world," Devereux said. "I wish the country would make up its mind. Do you want to be an integrated hi-tech manufacturing base or not? Once you give away this industry, it's a slow march to not making things that matter after that."

When Holden announced its $152 million loss for the 2012 calendar year it admitted that it loses money on locally-made cars but makes money on imports.

If Holden were to shut its car-making factory at Elizabeth in South Australia and the engine factory in Port Melbourne, it says it would remain in Australia selling imported cars - as Ford plans to do after 2016 when it closes its Broadmeadows and Geelong facilities.



Well with Ford down looks like his after Holden next.
P.s I just used title they used.

[jpd80]

As I've said before Holden's plans for exports are no guarantee of profitability and
if anything, Holden has now taken a greater gamble than Ford with its new Commodore.

Kudos to them for still trying but I just wonder if their sales projections are a little optimistic
and the recent cuts in RRP being more to assure volume in the short term....

This is painful to watch because as Ford fans, we've been living on the edge for decades but
a lot of this will come as a dead set shock to Holden supporters who have been insulated from the cold reality...

[JPFS1]

Good on him for telling it how it is and as a tax payer, I wouldn't hesitate to contribute to a scheme that supports this industry to keep jobs in Australia. That's what our taxes are for after all, to make our industries viable and competitive and to help sustain a healthy job market.

Government should be putting everything into this, but I think it's all too late.

[Nikked]

Anyone watched the 3 part series "Wide Open Road"?


Its a great reminder to why its such a great loss to Australia to loose our manufacturing facilities. Over 100 years Holden and Ford fought through two wars, depressions and the fuel crisis. The factories built our war machines and the post war Holden gave thousands of veterans jobs.

Amoungst the early fallen were the Australian 6, Australian Motor Industries and British Motor cooperation.

The thing is, in the "good ol days" there was import tariffs that helped the industry boom.





Now Australia is a whore for the world, dumping ground for cars, and a giant mineral hole.

[mik]

The writing has been on the wall for manufacturing for years, maybe even decades, you could see it a mile off, those in power of the country have let Australian manufacturing be the whipping boy of importing countries for years.

[redxm]

I can see both sides here. Yes we need to keep manufacturing alive in this country.

But how long should we throw money at an unprofitable business?

Govco, no matter what flavour, needs an overall policy re-think. Not just a handout policy.

[Revolver]

What the hell? Let them die. & I am sorry that that sounds obtuse.

Im not saying that because if Ford hasn't survived, then neither should Holden.

If they cant support themselves then, its time to go.

Why should the Aust Government have to put in 500m ++ to keep a business in business.

I fail to understand how this works. Local car manufacturer gets X amount of taxpayer money to survive. But then we pay taxes when we buy the car.

Ah, Excuse me? I pay taxes, the government donated some of my money to Ford/Holden/Toyota, where is my free car?

And on that basis, if I walked in to by a new Falcon/Commodore/Camry I am effectively paying for said car twice. That is BS.

You want to survive? Lobby the government to ramp up import tarrifs & taxes for the 100 & something cars offerred in Australia. And not by a little either. Its this that has created the factories to close anyway. Letting in imports with no gates to slow them down.

But I am sure holden will get the cash. Then spend half of it ensuring they win every V8 Supercar Race on the Calendar. Which they pretty much have this year. With a Massive duck to Ford. & We are 16 races in IIRC. With one win to will Davidson.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Revolver 45

Ah, Excuse me? I pay taxes, the government donated some of my money to Ford/Holden/Toyota, where is my free car?

Go live in Germany where you pay over $200 per year, compared to your precious $17 a year here.



Don't forget there is rebates of mining operations...your taxes pay for their fuel.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by redxm

I can see both sides here. Yes we need to keep manufacturing alive in this country.

But how long should we throw money at an unprofitable business?

Govco, no matter what flavour, needs an overall policy re-think. Not just a handout policy.

We arent talking about helping non profitable $2. shops.

We've already let too much industry slide be it auto, food, textiles, farming etc.
But why are these businesses unprofitable ?? Unfair trade / cost advantages.

"We" all know that Australia needs to abolish these FTAs that work against our manufacturers and national interests yet no govt has the balls to do it.

Its about time we have a long hard look at ourselves as a nation - do we really need to be driving BMWs or imports, do we as consumers really need a choice of 100 brands.
Its a nice thought, but not at the expense of our childrens futures / jobs.
Are we worse off for all driving the same car, but were all driving to work, or do we have choice and drive to centrelink.

We need to help, reinvest in manufacturing, especially the big players. They are the one that invest in r&d, develop the latest technologies and upskill the nation.
Without them we will be like those struggling Euro countries that are facing doom & gloom because they too had or placed no value in manufacturing.

[Dave R]

I'm happy for my taxes to go to Holden, designing and manufacturing cars here is no walk in the park and they need all the help they can get.

[mik]

To give an idea just how screwed up this country is in relation to importing, I was just watching the news , they reported one of the big supermarkets are in trouble for false labeling, their fresh baked on premises bread was already half baked and came from another country, need I say more????

[stang65]

Originally Posted by Revolver 45

What the hell? Let them die. & I am sorry that that sounds obtuse.

Im not saying that because if Ford hasn't survived, then neither should Holden.

If they cant support themselves then, its time to go.

Why should the Aust Government have to put in 500m ++ to keep a business in business.

I fail to understand how this works. Local car manufacturer gets X amount of taxpayer money to survive. But then we pay taxes when we buy the car.

Ah, Excuse me? I pay taxes, the government donated some of my money to Ford/Holden/Toyota, where is my free car?

And on that basis, if I walked in to by a new Falcon/Commodore/Camry I am effectively paying for said car twice. That is BS.

You want to survive? Lobby the government to ramp up import tarrifs & taxes for the 100 & something cars offerred in Australia. And not by a little either. Its this that has created the factories to close anyway. Letting in imports with no gates to slow them down.

But I am sure holden will get the cash. Then spend half of it ensuring they win every V8 Supercar Race on the Calendar. Which they pretty much have this year. With a Massive duck to Ford. & We are 16 races in IIRC. With one win to will Davidson.

Really let them die....
In the old days when Telecoms,gas,electricity etc was goverment and if you had a goverment job you were safe. But then these companies got sold the only thing that mattered was $$$$$ people started losing their jobs in the interest of shareholders prices went up and then more people lost jobs, see the pattern. We lose manufacturing and the $ drops guess who will end a paying $40K for a basic bum dragger four cylinder?

[pottery beige]

yep, much rather my tax dollars go to them than the flat screen, pokie filling, bong smoking, baby bonus its all too hard couch attendants....

[zilo]

$150m in losses?

So not one cent went back to the parent company in America?

What a load of nonsense.

[Bossxr8]

Throwing cash at them won't make one iota of difference if they keep our markets so open that we are absolutely flooded with cheap imports.

Its policy changes to protect our industries that will keep them alive, not cash handouts.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Go live in Germany where you pay over $200 per year, compared to your precious $17 a year here.
Don't forget there is rebates of mining operations...your taxes pay for their fuel.

And to think "he who likes to exaggerate" Kim Carr stated only a few months ago that-

The subsidies paid to the automotive industry cost each Australian about $17.80 - compared to $90 per person in Germany

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226615519478

Now, whilst certain politicians and car advocates like to dodgy up figures to twist them the way they do. Lets just compare some figures.

Germany in 2011 had a population of 82 million, so going by "HWLTE" Carrs assumption, germany subsidises its car industry by 82,000,000 x $90 = $7.4 billion per year. But Germany manufactures 6 million cars a year, so they are subsidising each car by approx. $1233 per car.

Australia has a population of 22 million x $17 (somehow you have worked out that $400 million a year in direct subsidies, and nearly $1 billion in tarrifs =$17, but i will give you that figure) = $374 million / 220,000 cars per year = $1700 per car.

Now I wont go into any arguement that the figures you have provided are duds to start with, or that fact that Germany does tend to make higher priced vehicles than Australia, or that any German taxpayer assistance that does go to its industry actually supports German car companies (Australia doesnt have a car company), we will just go by yours (Or "HWLTE") figures. So you are arguing that for Australia to be equal to Germany, then the Australian Government should be giving thecar company's 220,000 (cars) x $500 ($1700 -$1200)= $110 million less each year????????

[mr smith]

To keep the "not with my taxes" group happy, how about all tax rebates and handouts being stopped. Negative gearing, claims on investment, claims on losses, GST rebates, the whole frekin lot, lets trash the economy and see how rosy life is.

Time for tariffs and govt support for all manufacturers.

[Franco Cozzo]

The Great Wall Dealership in Essendon Airport closed down and has now become a KIA dealership.

I guess not many people are buying their cheap Chinese crap with asbestos even though they advertise them like mad?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And to think "he who likes to exaggerate" Kim Carr stated only a few months ago that-



http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226615519478

Now, whilst certain politicians and car advocates like to dodgy up figures to twist them the way they do. Lets just compare some figures.

Germany in 2011 had a population of 82 million, so going by "HWLTE" Carrs assumption, germany subsidises its car industry by 82,000,000 x $90 = $7.4 billion per year. But Germany manufactures 6 million cars a year, so they are subsidising each car by approx. $1233 per car.

Australia has a population of 22 million x $17 (somehow you have worked out that $400 million a year in direct subsidies, and nearly $1 billion in tarrifs =$17, but i will give you that figure) = $374 million / 220,000 cars per year = $1700 per car.

Now I wont go into any arguement that the figures you have provided are duds to start with, or that fact that Germany does tend to make higher priced vehicles than Australia, or that any German taxpayer assistance that does go to its industry actually supports German car companies (Australia doesnt have a car company), we will just go by yours (Or "HWLTE") figures. So you are arguing that for Australia to be equal to Germany, then the Australian Government should be giving thecar company's 220,000 (cars) x $500 ($1700 -$1200)= $110 million less each year????????

Nice job twisting the numbers a way to suit you. Are you not doing anything you criticize them for. Hypocrite.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

So you are arguing that for Australia to be equal to Germany

No, I'm pointing out that there is next to SFA for our own industry, yet the little that they get causes the media and self centered individuals to get there nickers in a twist.

[fte50]

It dont say much for a country whos importers make more $$ than the manufacturers.
When you offset all the risks / costs etc, pride of product becomes irrelevant and soon all remaining manufacturers will go on to a sole import scenario.

[The Snout]

Show me your plan Holden. No plan, no money.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Show me your plan Holden. No plan, no money.

New commodore on a Alpha platform.

[Brazen]

Yeah people ******ing about 17 bucks per capita in subsidies for the automotive industries, but no one complains about the $742 per capita the banks get in government subsidies. Who cares that 25% of all R&D in this country is spent by the auto industry.

[borough]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Anyone watched the 3 part series "Wide Open Road"?


Its a great reminder to why its such a great loss to Australia to loose our manufacturing facilities. Over 100 years Holden and Ford fought through two wars, depressions and the fuel crisis. The factories built our war machines and the post war Holden gave thousands of veterans jobs.

Amoungst the early fallen were the Australian 6, Australian Motor Industries and British Motor cooperation.

The thing is, in the "good ol days" there was import tariffs that helped the industry boom.


Now Australia is a whore for the world, dumping ground for cars, and a giant mineral hole.

Lets go back to the "good old days" with poorly made local vehicles with a radio as an option?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by borough

Lets go back to the "good old days" with poorly made local vehicles with a radio as an option?

Oh come on

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by borough

Lets go back to the "good old days" with poorly made local vehicles with a radio as an option?

do you drive trains...???

[jpd80]

My how Holden's tune has changed in six months from a company commiting to stay
as a local producer for another ten years to now saying that it's all up in the air.

I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways and taking cash only to reneg later will put Holden in the firing line.

Maybe that's part of the reason why Ford is opting out, is government funding evaporating?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

My how Holden's tune has changed in six months from a company commiting to stay
as a local producer for another ten years to now saying that it's all up in the air.

I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways and taking cash only to reneg later will put Holden in the firing line.

Maybe that's part of the reason why Ford is opting out, is government funding evaporating?

Ford opted out as that was the easiest option.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford opted out as that was the easiest option.

Not easy but cost effective for them...