Ahh, The Wonders of Freeway Driving...!

BuuBox · 26-09-2005, 07:38 PM

Ahh, The Wonders of Freeway Driving...!

Is it just me, or does no one in Victoria know how to drive on a freeway? Even at 2 o'clock in the morning, you seem to get stuck behind a wonderful individual deciding that keep left unless overtaking doesn't apply, and wishes to do 95km/h in the right lane. Undertaking past the usual stream of s**t-scared drivers sticking to the middle because they can't handle more than two cars in their field of vision at once, into the left lane seems to be the only (potentially dangerous) solution.

And then, it rains. So, everyone dives on the brakes. Or maybe there's a cop car with flashing lights above pulling someone over. Hit the brakes! Can't be doing more than 50% of the speed limit as we pass 'em eh!

Or maybe it's not even freeway driving that does it to some people. A fire engine coming down Ferntree Gully road on the wrong side of the road is enough for some people to hit the brakes, coming to a complete and abrupt stop. Bugger the poor bastards trying to merge out of the way of a 20 tonne hurtling object... :P

Which comes to my final point, merging ability. Or the lack thereof... One cannot, despite what some people seem to think, merge into 100km/h Freeway traffic @ 50km/h. Or even 55km/h. It doesn't work. To merge into traffic doing 100km/h, you have to be doing approximatly 100km/h. No excuse if you drive a Camry... Unless of course it's peak hour, then you might as well walk.

So, to make this thread have a more legit point, have you ever actually seen anyone driving properly/safely in Melbourne/Victoria?

(Maybe I'm getting cranky in my old age

Just needed to vent after nearly being taken out on my way to Uni this morning...!) :baby bott

Keepleft · 26-09-2005, 07:49 PM

About three years ago I saw four vehicles driving properly on a VIC freeway. :-)

Hong Kong now, and soon the remainder of ROC with their driver manual, as with NSW now, actually teach drivers how to properly use freeway type roads insofar lane discipline.

Indian text soon owing some 7,500 kilometres of new freeway and another 30 thousand kilometres planned.

See: http://www.td.gov.hk/road_safety/roa...ays_/index.htm

Understand your comments. Good Luck.

chief · 26-09-2005, 07:52 PM

It also annoys me people who drive on the right lane slowly. Maybe they are listening to Dennis Leary song "A**hole". "I drive really slow in the ultra fast lane, while people behind me are going insane".

Jsmilie:

parawolf · 26-09-2005, 07:59 PM

after some extensive driving overseas... all I can say is that Australian's cannot drive safely. Against popular opinion people in California can drive (San Francisco, LA or San Diego).

These people keep right (slow lane in the US remember), they don't drive in the lanes which contain the onramp/offramps. They make room for you when you go to merge correctly (yes thats right - do it correctly and they are polite as! - do it wrong and prepare to be flashed and honked).

Do the speed limit or match the speed of the traffic to merge. Cannot repeat this enough - MATCH THE SPEED OF TRAFFIC TO MERGE.

For those in Melbourne that are starting to experience them, those traffic lights on freeway onramps which partition up the traffic... these work! If you are stopped by one. Wait for it to go green on your go - don't rush the yellow. Once you get your green... start moving! get to the limit or traffic speed.

*sigh* I wish I could go back to San Diego and LA to keep up my driving skills - because you don't drive safely here in Melbourne - you drive to survive here...

pauly85 · 26-09-2005, 08:19 PM

few days ago i was driving in mcadam square in the eastern suburbs of melbourne, i drive a nissal patrol at the moment, im in the left hand lane heading towards the highway when a black mirage pulls out of the servo on the opposite side of the road, straight into my lane, then slams on her brakes when the traffic light turns yellow, leaving me with NO time at all to stop, dont ask me how but i pulled that figgen patrol up....so the manditory beep of the horn in frustration was given....THEN SHE GIVES ME THE BIRD!!! i dont understand people who create dangerous situations then abuse the victims around them, it is seriously crazy

Keepleft · 26-09-2005, 08:47 PM

Parawolf: "These people keep right (slow lane in the US remember), they don't drive in the lanes which contain the onramp/offramps".

We have an issue in the various State and Commonwealth road design gudelines here, where the exit and entry lanes are often too short a length.

Australia is slowly adopting EU type lane layout, lane start and end practice, moving away from our old US sourced training in order to improve traffic free flow long term.

We do not desire folk to keep to the middle lanes unnecessarily.

rodderz · 26-09-2005, 08:49 PM

It's one of the things that's wrong about Melbourne- the amount of drivers who have no clue or patience. People wonder why road rage is happening more

Still, you probably get them everywhere although maybe not as bad

EDIT: An interesting sidenote, a mate has been over in Europe for a month driving on their roads and the Autobahn's in Germany. Not many speed limits, main rule is keep right if someone else is faster coming up on you. Put on hazards to alert others of other road users. Seems that they have a more level head over there and while there are accidents, research has shown that common sense prevails over the "road safety" measures we get over here

whippet_zetec · 26-09-2005, 08:56 PM

I agree merging lanes is a huge issue....so many people just seem to freak out, not speed up to the flow rate etc.

Even more concerning is those that cant merge in slow traffic at 10km/h....its a zipper effect but you always have some idiot who wants to merge before the merge lane ends, others who shoot at 100km/h as far up the inside as they can and others who try to just shut the merging traffic out.....ahhh its a fustrating place on the road isnt it?

The MaDDeSTMaN · 26-09-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

It's one of the things that's wrong about Melbourne- the amount of drivers who have no clue or patience. People wonder why road rage is happening more

Still, you probably get them everywhere although maybe not as bad

Well said, the number of clueless drivers is astonishing!

I think it's far too easy for people to get their license, and once they've got it, they've got it for life unless they do anything really stupid, I think there should be periodical re-testing, but knowing our government, that would just be viewed as another revenue stream rather then a road safety issue...

AU-MUSTD · 26-09-2005, 09:09 PM

I like the idiots who think they have right of way over eveyone else and act as if they are the only ones that have anywhere important to be ie ... cutting in and changing lanes 100 times to get two more cars ahead, force in right at the end of a merging lane just after pulling out from that lane to get in front of a few more cars , tailgating in the right lane and wondering why person in front wont move? the list goes on and on..........

MITCHAY · 26-09-2005, 09:10 PM

I hate it when people overtake the person in front when they are doin the speed limit. Then they get into the right lane and stay there, boxing all the traffic in.

As for merging, I will get into the right lane to let someone in if I can or I will leave plenty of room when I know when the road merges up ahead.

To get one bloody car ahead is just a stupid reason to put the foot down.

SSbaby · 26-09-2005, 09:12 PM

It's not just Vic. It's the whole country. I don't know if it's the Paul Keating statement "Australia... is part of Asia" that we've inherited their driving standards but we are a shocking lot. Poor standard, sheer ignorance and rudeness to other road users, personified.

Btw, part of the problem here in Vic is the government's draconian speed laws. When a vehicle attempts to overtake on the right lane, the vehicle being overtaken speeds up marginally... thus creating a mobile road block. People don't want to pay a fine for creeping over the limit (rightfully so) but it doesn't help traffic flow, that's putting it mildly.

XLS99 Ute man · 26-09-2005, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

I like the idiots who think they have right of way over eveyone else and act as if they are the only ones that have anywhere important to be ie ... cutting in and changing lanes 100 times to get two more cars ahead, force in right at the end of a merging lane just after pulling out from that lane to get in front of a few more cars , tailgating in the right lane and wondering why person in front wont move? the list goes on and on..........

i dont agree on going in and out, in and out to get two cars in front, but dont sit in the freaking over taking lane, and dont be stubborn to move over, jsut cause you think you have the right and all humans are equal on the roads

parawolf · 26-09-2005, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keepleft

Parawolf: "These people keep right (slow lane in the US remember), they don't drive in the lanes which contain the onramp/offramps".

We have an issue in the various State and Commonwealth road design gudelines here, where the exit and entry lanes are often too short a length.

I guarrantee that most of the freeways I drove on in San Diego and LA have shorter "straight" onramps than here in Melbourne. The total length might be longer, however the majority are curved (so much so that you are doing less than 35mph to get to 65mph for freeway speed) or even uphill.

But thats my experience so perhaps it was the area of those cities which are massive in comparison to Melbourne that was organised like that.

A large portion of entry lanes in Melbourne (again in my experience which is generally Eastern and South Eastern/Monash) are downhill. This helps massively. However people still do not get up to speed.

I do agree that the exit ramps are way too short in 90% of the options. Those that are uphill help out - however the expectation that you go from a 100km/h zone to a 60km/h or even 50km/h zone is laughable.

parawolf · 26-09-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The MaDDeSTMaN

I think it's far too easy for people to get their license, and once they've got it, they've got it for life unless they do anything really stupid, I think there should be periodical re-testing, but knowing our government, that would just be viewed as another revenue stream rather then a road safety issue...

It shouldn't just be re-testing as ongoing evaluations - it should be the initial requirement for greater knowledge and skill level. People need to understand understeer and oversteer, how it is generated, how to avoid it, and how to recover from it. That is one skill in about 50 that should be added to the testing and experience list.

BuuBox · 26-09-2005, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Btw, part of the problem here in Vic is the government's draconian speed laws. When a vehicle attempts to overtake on the right lane, the vehicle being overtaken speeds up marginally... thus creating a mobile road block. People don't want to pay a fine for creeping over the limit (rightfully so) but it doesn't help traffic flow, that's putting it mildly.

Your last point is very true. I remember the Monash freeway flowing relatively well when the accepted norm seemed to be 90ish km/h in the left lane, 95-100km/h in the middle, and around 110km/h in the right. That in itself caused speed differentation problems, but at least the traffic flowed. Now most people are s**t scared to do 1km/h over, so sit at 95km/h just to be sure. In the right lane.

I'd catch the train if it went anywhere useful!

pauljh74 · 26-09-2005, 10:27 PM

The not merging at the traffic speed/speed limit is a big problem, it seems people get half way along the on ramp and their brains won't allow them to drive any faster than 70 km/h, then they try and merge with traffic going 50% faster then eventually speed up. I've driven old small 4 cylinder cars and achieved the speed limit with plenty of the on ramp remaining, so it's not a matter of lack of grunt, unless you are in a laden truck.

Another thing is the lack of ability some people have in maintaining speed up hills. Driving along downhill in an 80 zone and cars are speeding up to 85 or 90, but then it goes uphill and these cars are now doing 70km/h and slowing, while I'm gently brushing the throttle in 5th! So again, not a matter of lack of power on milder hills.

The merging issue is another one. If someone who has been driving alongside/in front of me or thereabouts needs to change lanes and indicates early, I'll let them in. If they come roaring up from behind despite seeing an obstacle in their lane and then try and cut in, I'll typically close the gap. I had some clown pull up at the lights in the left lane - about 200-300 metres after the lights the lane merges. Myself and the car infront of me took off from the lights at a moderate pace, I was close behind him without being too close. The guy in the left lane fell back a bit, then decided that now he could see the "left lane ends merge right" sign, he would accelerate and overtake me. He did this while his lane was disappearing and I had to hit the brakes to avoid a collision. Also there was little more than 2 car lengths between me and the car I had been following, so he never had a gap to merge into. I did check the (Vic) road rules, and since there was a broken line defining the lanes, even though his lane was running out, he has to give way to me, whereas "zip merging" is where there is no line but 2 streams of traffic having to merge into one and then the car in front has right of way. Where people do this properly I let them in. Another thing that is annoying is when I let a car in, then someone else continues to drive just past you and also push in. They should take their place in the queue and fall in behind so that each person only has to let 1 car in front, not 5.

The MaDDeSTMaN · 26-09-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

It shouldn't just be re-testing as ongoing evaluations - it should be the initial requirement for greater knowledge and skill level. People need to understand understeer and oversteer, how it is generated, how to avoid it, and how to recover from it. That is one skill in about 50 that should be added to the testing and experience list.

I agree 100%, which is why I said it's far too easy to get a license in the first place. We need initial testing substantially revised, as well as on going periodical testing, IMO.

The sad thing is, with the bad attitudes so many people seem to have on our roads, it probably wouldn't make any real difference. :(

ssj_jaypee · 26-09-2005, 10:55 PM

Queensland is the worst state in terms of drivers and their driving ability or rather lack of.
In Townsville alone, atleast 15 people must've died within the last 3 months and more crashes and road rage incidents reported.

I hate everybody on the road in general.

trick_xd · 26-09-2005, 11:02 PM

The missers and I Just spent a few days in melb from thursday till saturday and we went into the city and out to the shopping centers and i dont know how many times i seen drivers nealy knock off bike riders or side swipe other cars in trying to merge with other lanes
i have been around australia a few times and i still hate driving in melb as i think a lot of the ppl there just dont care about there cars or other ppls cars and the other place i dont like is sydney ( had car stolen there ) they are rush rush rush every where and are the first to honk at you if you try to merge with there lane as if they own it all to them selfs .

And i know my car dont like melbourne much now as when we got there my water pump started to leak in my EL .. had to leave the cap off and keep filling it up every hr or so

MrQuan · 26-09-2005, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssj_jaypee

Queensland is the worst state in terms of drivers and their driving ability or rather lack of.
In Townsville alone, atleast 15 people must've died within the last 3 months and more crashes and road rage incidents reported.

I hate everybody on the road in general.

Sounds like you're doing your thing for road rage then, 'eh? :yeees:

b2tf · 26-09-2005, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssj_jaypee

Queensland is the worst state in terms of drivers and their driving ability or rather lack of.
In Townsville alone, atleast 15 people must've died within the last 3 months and more crashes and road rage incidents reported.

I hate everybody on the road in general.

You're an angry little man aren't you?!

:

TheSneakiness · 27-09-2005, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

It's not just Vic. It's the whole country.

Ain't that the damn truth...

And trust me, in QLD, it's not just how not to merge, it's also how not to give way at roundabouts.

I was almost wiped out at a roundabout yesterday morning, by some fool in an old Camry wagon. I always make sure that I have enough time and that no-one else is coming onto the roundabout before I go. Get off the roundabout,no-one in front of me, no-one behind me, look to the front left, Camry. I thought to myself, "Where the f*** did he come from?".

My boss wasn't too far behind me on his Ducati Monster, and he told me he almost got wiped out on the same roundabout yesterday morning.

Overall, you've gotta think that the standard of driver education in Australia is poor at best.

hrtrip · 27-09-2005, 09:44 AM

i hate it when people cant merge properly and i never let any one in my lane when they come roaring up the inside, if anything it ry and block them in so that they have to come to a complete stop. just to show the ***** that there way of merging is incorrect.

also, it should be mandatory to pass a driver education course or an advanced driving course before you can get your license. this can teach people about under and over steer and how not to get into these situations as well as get out of them. i think this would make for a lot of better drivers as they may now have some education in terms of driving. it would also keep a lot of s**t kicker drivers off the road as they wouldn't be able to correct a slide, but then again you would probably get a whole bunch of losers thinking that they are the new D1 drifting champ and streets would turn into a drift course at night.
just my 2c

HRT R.I.P

parawolf · 27-09-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrtrip

i hate it when people cant merge properly and i never let any one in my lane when they come roaring up the inside, if anything it ry and block them in so that they have to come to a complete stop. just to show the ***** that there way of merging is incorrect.

:

Apart from getting your aderalin running faster, this also does the same for the other driver. Seriously public roads are not there for you to prove a point on. If some fool wants to be a tosser, let them be, and let them get on their way so they don't have an accident with you involved. Seriously people should just calm down on the roads and you will find that less and less of this will happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrtrip

also, it should be mandatory to pass a driver education course or an advanced driving course before you can get your license. this can teach people about under and over steer and how not to get into these situations as well as get out of them. i think this would make for a lot of better drivers as they may now have some education in terms of driving. it would also keep a lot of s**t kicker drivers off the road as they wouldn't be able to correct a slide, but then again you would probably get a whole bunch of losers thinking that they are the new D1 drifting champ and streets would turn into a drift course at night.

I've got a better idea. Not just adding in the idea of better driver education but everyone should be able to get their L's reasonably well - kind of like how it is at the moment, perhaps with a 'basic' handling course to start up.

But to get your P's, add $1000 to the cost, and included in this is multiple driving courses, tests and scenerios. This means for the average P plater to go out and get their licence to drive around in their $2000 car, it is going to cost them $3000 just to get it on the road. With the cost of petrol not going down in the near future we need to encourage less people into cars, and more onto public transport.

The cost of getting a licence here in Australia makes it too easy to fail the first time (if you manage to do that because the tests are so lacking) and go for the test again in a few weeks time. Perhaps if you fail you have to undergo a log book style experience to prove that you are getting more hours as a driver.

Just some thoughts. Driving is a privledge, not a right, as it has been here in Australia for way too long.

SB076 · 27-09-2005, 10:25 AM

I usually love merging, provided that there is no one in front of me on the on ramp, but latelly I seem to be getting stuck behind trucks/cars that insist on merging at 30 K's or more under the limit which makes it bloody dangerous for everyone, people on the freeway either need to hit the brakes or move into the other lane. But the speed difference is just too great - if you cant do at least 80K's to merge you should not be on the freeway

deesun · 27-09-2005, 12:18 PM

In NSW there has been a marked improvement in freeway driving since it became L-A-W law to keep left unless overtaking. Also driving towards merging traffic if there is room in the right lane traffic moves into the right from the left lane to facilitate the merging traffic as they know mostly the merging traffic will be slower getting up to speed. It all works well so long as there is room in the right lane. It aint all perfect but a great improvement on 5 years ago,the left lane can still be the fastest sometimes though. :togo:

vino3o2 · 27-09-2005, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB076

I usually love merging, provided that there is no one in front of me on the on ramp, but latelly I seem to be getting stuck behind trucks/cars that insist on merging at 30 K's or more under the limit which makes it bloody dangerous for everyone, people on the freeway either need to hit the brakes or move into the other lane. But the speed difference is just too great - if you cant do at least 80K's to merge you should not be on the freeway

Agreed...nothing is worse when some fool merges the freeway at 60kmh! almost causing an accident!! I hate them!!

pauljh74 · 27-09-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

:
If some fool wants to be a tosser, let them be, and let them get on their way so they don't have an accident with you involved. Seriously people should just calm down on the roads and you will find that less and less of this will happen.

But to get your P's, add $1000 to the cost, and included in this is multiple driving courses, tests and scenerios. This means for the average P plater to go out and get their licence to drive around in their $2000 car, it is going to cost them $3000 just to get it on the road. With the cost of petrol not going down in the near future we need to encourage less people into cars, and more onto public transport.

The cost of getting a licence here in Australia makes it too easy to fail the first time (if you manage to do that because the tests are so lacking) and go for the test again in a few weeks time. Perhaps if you fail you have to undergo a log book style experience to prove that you are getting more hours as a driver.

Just some thoughts. Driving is a privledge, not a right, as it has been here in Australia for way too long.

If some fool is planning to zoom up a lane that's ending instead of merging when they should, why shouldn't people shut them out to show them that it's not on? If you just keep letting them cut in constantly, they'll keep doing it as they know that in the end, the other driver will concede when they shouldn't have to. Of course don't go panel to panel to prove a point, but don't just cave in straight away either, they'll just do it again to someone else.

Adding $1000 to the cost of a licence won't benefit anyone - except government coffers. Some of the worst newly licenced drivers on the road drive brand new cars that their rich daddy bought them. Some of these people don't take care of their own car or care about damaging or maintaining it as daddy will foot the bill if something happens. Whereas the broke kid who saved it up himself will more likely take care to protect his investment as he can't afford problems that can be avoided through taking care of the car. Why not have new P platers keep that money and invest it in a car that is in better condition or safer instead?

Current licensing and registration fees as well as petrol taxes should be enough to fund increased testing. Most of it is already siphoned off elsewhere as it is - so motorists don't get anywhere near a fair return on motoring taxes. Licence fees are pretty much you pay the fee, get your picture taken and don't see them again for 10 years. Money well earned by the roads authority? No way

Iphido · 27-09-2005, 05:44 PM

I constantly pine for my week of driving in germany. It was late in the year so few tourists and in the nice southern parts..

How can the germans manage to merge at 250 kmph, in rain, while most australians are incapable of merging at 60kmph.

I was amazing relaxing to cruise at ~160kmph odd, and find that yes, 100% of the people kept right!! OMFG!! There were only two incidents when that did not happen in my entire time in germany, both were forign tourists (italian and dutch!).. Both were delt with severly.

With a S55 merc tailgating a little fiat at ~150kmph literally within 1" of its bumper after slowing down extremely quickly from 250 kmph. Then with much flashing of lights and horns and several attempts to over take the box on the dividing grass strip, and all surrounding cars and trucks joining in in the flashing and the honking the little box finally pulled over and the order was restored.

I would say on my average journey I would only see perhaps two cars that keep left!!!

Its discusting.

Australians can't:
-Merge
-Use round-a-bouts
-be generally curtious
-Obey most signs
-Drive at a consistant speed
-check mirrors!