More Qantas woes

[max]

Reading about a Qantas 747 blowing an engine just before take off from Sydney to LA. I would really like to know if these kinds of mechanical incidents are any more or less prevalent that with any other international airline. Qantas is becoming a hapless organisation what with a plague of mechanical and legal issues. With a trip overseas in the next couple of months in the planning stages, my gut feeling is to avoid Qantas. It is certainly not the cheapest anyway. Shame really as I would prefer to support a local company.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by max

Reading about a Qantas 747 blowing an engine just before take off from Sydney to LA. I would really like to know if these kinds of mechanical incidents are any more or less prevalent that with any other international airline. Qantas is becoming a hapless organisation what with a plague of mechanical and legal issues. With a trip overseas in the next couple of months in the planning stages, my gut feeling is to avoid Qantas. It is certainly not the cheapest anyway. Shame really as I would prefer to support a local company.

QANTAS has a minor oops and it is front page, anyone else falls out of the sky killing hundreds and it is 2 column inches on page 47.

News prints only rare or unexpected things, not things that happen every day.

QANTAS still has the best safety rating of any airline in the world.

The only problem I have seen growing in aviation over the last 30 years is "budget airlines" and discounting. This reduces income and with less money corners have to be cut to stay in business.

If you can't afford to pay $400 to fly from Sydney to Melbourne then you should take a bus or a train. Aircraft will only get you there 10 hours earlier.

Everyone wants a GT-E at Great Wall prices but cannot understand why Great Walls are not as safe, reliable, comfortable or perform as well as a GT-E.......

[MexicanBatman]

Dissagree with the qf safety reccord there are plenty of airlines that have never had a serious incident plenty of them. Even all the other locals dj jq etc...

Every day for a while now we have had us a/c bit that hasn't made the news. Tall Poppy syndrome sadly for qf. I'd gladly fly qf any day of the week over Garuda for example and other various airlines..

[Jim Goose]

You still have more chance of being hit by a meteorite then crashing in a Qantas plane.

Unfortunately the media love a beat up.. next they will be reporting low coffee warning lights in cockpits, stale peanuts and over priced bottles of beer in first class....

Fact remains in a multiengine aircraft, engine failures will occur, its part of life.
Weather its from a bird strike, cheap parts, a tired engineer missing something, laziness, etc etc... it happens.

[Kingsley]

Plus people don't understand the compulsory multiple layers of inspections on each task of aircraft maintenance. Every level of technician working on aircraft must sign for part of the job they do, the inspector must also ensure that the job was done properly and sign the maintenance sheets. No-one want's their name on an aircraft failure. Aircraft maintenance has a far more stricter system of maintenance authorisation compared to say vehicle maintenance.

[DayTE]

This may be the cynic in me, but would the maintenance guys/girls be "leaking" information about failures and incidents more recently to try and keep as much maintenance here in Australia instead of it going overseas??

And QANTAS do have one of the best safety records as far as airlines go.

I would choose QANTAS over a lot of others.

[mark300]

they are still one of the safest airlines around. i would sooner fly qantas over many other airlines flying today, but there are a few airlines id prefer to fly over qantas for that matter (emirates for one)

like others have mentioned, the media just like to over emphasise things a little, and i think especially in response to qantas moving their maintainence overseas and the recent A380 scare, they are picking up on every little thing that happens in a qantas plane

[ThaFlash]

you have a better chance of dying while driving in a quantas jet while using a mobile phone

[MexicanBatman]

I for one would not fly emirates over qantas, qf's problems have been bad luck of late and not human error, the qf drivers are almost as good as they get, can't say that about the emirates crew who due to human error nearly killed 400 people not that long ago in Melbourne, and I'm no inside expert but aside from inputting incorrect weight into the flight computer, the airline requests that they take off using minimal thrust to conserve fuel, can't say that about virgin and qantas, I saw a 767 go near vertical last year, but I doubt it had pax on board.... Well not that steep, but you would have never seen a commercial airline climb like this before, and as I mention about emirates recently I flew with etihad and same deal, we used the whole runway 34 at Mel to get it in the air and then climbed so shallow it barley felt like we gained any altitude for 15 minutes, sure it was heavy a340-600 but I have seen the 380 take off in almost 1/3rd the distance with pax and fuel

[mark300]

i flew emirates to New Zealand about 18 months ago and had nothing but praise for them. great crew, excellent service and food, onboard entertainment and was a very comfortable flight. yes we used the whole of the main runway at Sydney, but we were on a fully loaded A380 so i really thought nothing of it, must admit i was unaware of those requests the airline make, and ill confess i did forget the emirates melbourne human error incident when writing previously...

i fly around alot for my sports though and my personal favourite to fly by far is virgin blue. never had a delay with them, good aircraft and they are alot more leniant with baggage than other airlines

[flappist]

Originally Posted by mark300

i flew emirates to New Zealand about 18 months ago and had nothing but praise for them. great crew, excellent service and food, onboard entertainment and was a very comfortable flight. yes we used the whole of the main runway at Sydney, but we were on a fully loaded A380 so i really thought nothing of it, must admit i was unaware of those requests the airline make, and ill confess i did forget the emirates melbourne human error incident when writing previously...

i fly around alot for my sports though and my personal favourite to fly by far is virgin blue. never had a delay with them, good aircraft and they are alot more leniant with baggage than other airlines

You actually flew on a Dugong? On purpose? Are you mad.........

[JG34JA]

Recently got the Qantas shuttle bus that travels between SYD international and domestic, so got to see all the A380's and 747-400s in the Qantas hangars. Rolls Royce Trent engines dropping out of their housings here and there for repair - it was fascinating. I wish the bus went slower so I could see more.

I'd fly Qantas again happily. "Qantas never crashed". In spite of recent woes being reported.

Having ex-airline pilots in the family is fun to say the least. Want an unbiased opinion about any of them? Just ask. Hilarious! You'd never set foot off the land ever again. What are foreign crew training standards like? What do military spy plane jockeys do when bored on duty? You don't wanna know! My favourite story is of a pilot for XXXXX, taking off out of XXXXX years ago, recognised that an engine component was faulty. Returning to the airport and not trusting local mechanics to fit the replacement, he did it himself, got back in, then flew the plane. Those were the days!

[rancidpunx]

Qantas are a third world airline when you stand them next to Virgin Atlantic, Emirates, Cathay and the like. Never again.

From the ground staff to the cabin crew everything just seemed to be an issue for them and the onboard experience is below par. If you have never flown with one of the above airlines or someone similar then you are missing out and can get a lot more for your money.

[xy500]

it always makes me laugh when people freak out about one engine failing on a 747, there is still more than enough thrust from the other 3 engines for the aircraft to complete any journey.
When all 4 engines fail, then its what i call an incident.
You've got to remember any landing you can walk away from is a good landing, even better if you can reuse the aircraft

[Danny]

Originally Posted by flappist

You actually flew on a Dugong? On purpose? Are you mad.........

EK run Engine Alliance engines (Same as AF), so they are safe

[mark300]

Originally Posted by flappist

You actually flew on a Dugong? On purpose? Are you mad.........

i loved it actually! im fascinated by the A380s... how such a big plane flies and all that. it was the best flight ive been on by a mile. i was shocked as to how quiet the engines were on take-off

and this was well before the qantas A380 incident as well. mind you i would still happily get on an A380 without hesitation

[LXL15]

I have flown QANTAS, Qatar Airways and Singapore Airlines from Melbourne to Europe, and QANTAS was definitely of the same, if not better standard. It can just be particualr flights or routes that are bad though. I flew from Melbourne to Doha, then Doha to Zurich (and back again via the same route). The planes from Melbourne to Doha were new and nicer, with more leg room, etc, but the service wasn't very good at all. It seemed like the crews were new too, which makes sense seeing as they only started flying out of Melbourne about a month before I left.

The service to Zurich was fantastic, however. I guess it just depends on the crew you get. Also, I just flew back from Bangkok on a jetstar/QANTAS codeshare flight, and apart from a delay that originated in Melbourne, the service was fantastic. Friendly and helpful the whole way.

Singapore was by far my favourite though, mainly because they gave me a free upgrade to business one time. Nice chaps.

Personally, I'm happy to fly with any prestige airline. I usually just go for the cheapest (hence me flying with so many different airlines).

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by xy500

it always makes me laugh when people freak out about one engine failing on a 747, there is still more than enough thrust from the other 3 engines for the aircraft to complete any journey.
When all 4 engines fail, then its what i call an incident.
You've got to remember any landing you can walk away from is a good landing, even better if you can reuse the aircraft

Ain't that the truth!!!

[ltd]

Well here's why you're safer on QF than anyone else.

British Airways Flight 268 was a regularly scheduled flight from Los Angeles' LAX airport to London Heathrow. The flight took off at about 9:24 p.m. on Feb. 20, 2005. When the plane, a four Rolls Royce engined Boeing 747-436, was about 300 feet into the air, flames burst out of its number 2 engine. The pilots shut the engine down. Air traffic control expected the plane to return to the airport. However, after consulting with the airline dispatcher, the pilots decided to set off on their flight plan "and get as far as we can." While 747s are certified to fly on three engines, doing so leaves much less room for error. Upon reaching England, the captain declared a fuel emergency after not being knowledgeable enough to cross feed fuel and landed in Manchester. A safety controversy ensued; the U.S. Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) accused the carrier of flying an "unairworthy" plane across the Atlantic ocean.

Same engines, same scenario and yet QF policy is to land.
This is BTW not the first time other airlines have done this, the plane involved in 268 had a week earlier had an engine failure climbing out of singapore and continued on to LHR.
Finally, the trent 900 is an evolution of the RB211's core; and in all recent failures on QF's 438's have been the culprits. Same as BA. Long live the GE CF6's on the 438ER's.

[max]

With ltd's resounding endorsement of QF safety procedures, I am now sufficiently assured. Also it appears by and large that QF Premium Economy features surpass that of many other carriers. All that remains to be resolved is that the aircraft conveying me to the USA and back on the dates I pick, are equipped with GE CF6 engines. I am open to suggestions about how to arrange this!

[FTE217]

Qantas is fine - typical media beat up for news - some listen I don't........
Being a monthly passenger for the last few yrs with them for my direct Shanghai flights I hardly have any complaints but then again I'm not the type to whinge.
Internationally I could say Qantas are a bit "old school" compared to the more sophisticated VA - Emirates - Cathay etc but being aussie I feel comfortable with Qantas the times I use them but do enjoy the experience with the others mentioned.
The only negative is pricing - they certainly arn't competitive for some routes - USA for eg - you can get far more competitve return flights than they.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by MexicanBatman

...the airline requests that they take off using minimal thrust to conserve fuel, can't say that about virgin and qantas, I saw a 767 go near vertical last year,

1. I am pretty sure that conserving fuel via reduced thrust is common practice amongst many airlines

2. Saw an Airbus A340 go near vertical at Farnborough Airshow in UK one year.....was awesome!

Will pm you the youtube video when I get home

[kypez]

I always fly Qantas, why, because its Australian. I'm a big fan of supporting anything Australian. I've had no major issues with them until my last flight. I upgraded to Business class but then they had no food for me (I'm vegetarian) even when I had requested for a vegetarian meal. They found someone elses Economy meal which was not the best. Even on my return, they had no food for me! This is a little poor I thought especially when I've flown Singapore Air and what a meal I had there! It was almost unlimited the amount of food that kept coming! You cant get that level of service in Business. Surely?!

The recent issues I agree with others that is mostly media hype and maybe Qantas just got lucky with the 380 engine failure (not destroying the wing completely) but you get that. They grounded their entire 380 fleet when the issue was found and other airlines only did it after sometime (though I know Qantas are the only ones(or one of the few) with the Trent 900). To me this shows they are still putting safety above profits, which is always a good sign!

They just really need to improve their inflight experience to really compete with Singapore Air, Malaysian Air and the new top gun, Etihad.

BTW, anyone notice the economy seats in the A380 seem a tighter fit than on the 747?

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

1. I am pretty sure that conserving fuel via reduced thrust is common practice amongst many airlines

Yes, it is. All airlines have reduced thrust takeoff policies and they don't vary that much (given aircraft type is pretty standardised these days to only a few brands etc.). The aim is literally to work out your engine use (not so much fuel but wear and tear) so as to use up as much space as you legally (and safely) can of the runway available under the prevailing weather and load conditions, therby using as little horsepower as required. This is then limited to a maximum 'derate' of the engine in order to guarantee climb out performance. Due to the maximum derate scenario (and certain weather/runway conditions) you will always have a natural variance in runway length used and climb out performance (one is not directly indicative of the other). For example a 767 may use 6000ft of a runway at maximum derate on a cityflyer flight of 1hr flight time but use 9000ft on a syd-honolulu flight even at maximum thrust. As long as the field length is sufficient (i.e. you can reach your decision speed and then stop again before the end) and you can get sufficient climb performance to avoid any obstacles than you derate as much as you can, even if it makes the aircraft a bit of a pig for the first few thousand feet LOL. QF policies are if anything a tad conservative in this regard not to mention captain has always got final discretion. As an example, wet runways etc. Cairns airport is one where QF instructs pilots to NOT derate at all regardless of load when making an intersection departure (8000ft approx) on a wet runway and/or turbulent/shear weather. This is for stopping distance for an abort and obstacle clearance (a large mountain) respectively. I've done countless departures from RW15 at cairns both in the simulator and as a passenger and for a 767 and no derate on a domestic flight boy does she climb! 7000ft within 3nm of the strip end is easy as pie!!!

Originally Posted by gcg2503

2. Saw an Airbus A340 go near vertical at Farnborough Airshow in UK one year.....was awesome!

Will pm you the youtube video when I get home

Lightly loaded airliners are very sprightly indeed with favourable wind/load conditions. Check out the 757 takeoffs that the NZ airforce put on at airshows.....rocketship. Of course some aircraft do climb better than others based on a range of factors in design. A340s aren't that good really in this area due to 4engine design (more installed weight) but impressively nontheless i'm sure....

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by kypez

I always fly Qantas, why, because its Australian. I'm a big fan of supporting anything Australian.

Hear hear and I'm sure many of us are patriotic but here's the $64000 question.
You see having my own business I see the $$$$$ where they go.
Now you tell me Australian or not what would you do for example I do a USA trip every year for business.
May consist another 5 US domestic flights then add the return LAX Syd.
We have used a travel agent for 20+ yrs until the wide world web made life far easier booking travel.
Now you tell me when the above trip via Qantas costs me (economy) near on $3k and via the web on Orbitz same flights yes different airline costed $1700.00 !
Yer sure I love to support Australia but ? I want as much $$$ in my pocket.

[FTE72]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Now you tell me when the above trip via Qantas costs me (economy) near on $3k and via the web on Orbitz same flights yes different airline costed $1700.00 !
Yer sure I love to support Australia but ? I want as much $$$ in my pocket.

You should book this years now Maurie, I got two return tickets to LA, QANTAS business class for $4k each. Good Deals atm.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Hear hear and I'm sure many of us are patriotic but here's the $64000 question.
You see having my own business I see the $$$$$ where they go.
Now you tell me Australian or not what would you do for example I do a USA trip every year for business.
May consist another 5 US domestic flights then add the return LAX Syd.
We have used a travel agent for 20+ yrs until the wide world web made life far easier booking travel.
Now you tell me when the above trip via Qantas costs me (economy) near on $3k and via the web on Orbitz same flights yes different airline costed $1700.00 !
Yer sure I love to support Australia but ? I want as much $$$ in my pocket.

I had the same debate last week when a return trip to NYC was $3400 economy with Qantas and $2300 with V Australia (June/July peak). I did some searching and hunting and finally found a fare of $2500 that includes travel to LA, NYC, London and back to Sydney all with Qantas. Its sad that I have to hunt so much and that Qantas just doesnt play fair straight off the bat.

[FTE217]

Grant/FTE72 yer thanks mate I know can get that kind of deal - but it then adds up real quick once you need the half doz domestic flights - doing that via Q then blows it out.
If you do a complete quote for eg via United being a US airline and ofcourse having their own domestic links/base's everywhere an outside airline can't compete.

Kypez - thats it unless you really do your homework the sucker pays through the nose.
Anyway sorry I took the thread off track to pricing but to be honest I think this is the area Q need to work on more than anything else to keep customers as no matter what the media say negative about the company as a regular flyer I have not experienced to date a mechanical scenario or whatever with Q and thats good enough for me.

[DJR-351]

Gotta love the media....

Have been listening to reports on the latest Qantas mishap on the Adelaide/Melbourne run, one report says the plane dropped 10000ft and another says 16000m....

Bit of a difference there guys....

[Jason[98.EL]]

Qantas passenger jet drops 26,000 feet

Originally Posted by ninemsn

Qantas passengers have told of their fear as a plane flying from Adelaide to Melbourne plunged 26,000ft, forcing them to wear the oxygen masks that dropped down from the ceiling.

PHOTOS: Qantas mid-air drama

The Boeing 737 was cruising at 36,000ft when the cabin suddenly depressurised, Qantas told Nine News reporter Chloe Bugelly.

Two air conditioning units that were supposed to be pressurising the cabin had failed, forcing the plane to drop to 10,000ft, the Sydney Morning Herald reports.

"It was very scary, I've never been in a situation like that," a passenger told Nine News.

"To have the air masks drop down and us not know why was just crazy."

Another passenger, Peter Cowan, told radio station 3AW that others onboard QF670 — which was about three quarters full — were advised to put on their masks but were not told the reason for the rapid descent for several minutes.

"I fly a lot around Australia and overseas and everything else like that, and it's the first time I've been on a plane where the oxygen masks were deployed so that's a fairly scary experience actually," he said.

Some passengers began to panic but Qantas dealt with the situation well, Mr Cowan said.

"To be fair to Qantas they handled it very, very well and the pilot eventually got on and explained to us what had happened and he said it was a safety precaution and that we were all really safe and don't be alarmed," he said

Some passengers said they heard a loud bang before the sharp drop, according to reports.

The plane landed safely at Melbourne airport about 7.55am.

makes you wonder even more about the people reporting this stuff