Queensland Nabs More Low Level than High Level Lead Foots.

[csv8]

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...ThVtqGWBKN4zqk
Up to 10kms over the speed limit the fine is $287 ! More than double the other States.

[Franco Cozzo]

It's $231 in Victoria so we're not far behind Australia's Florida

[Mulva]

Why are Australian cops so strict on speed?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by csv8

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/nat...ThVtqGWBKN4zqk
Up to 10kms over the speed limit the fine is $287 ! More than double the other States.

There’s moremoney in fines to potentially be made from low level speeding
before loss of license:
- $287 + 1 demerit points x 12 possible fine opportunities in 3 years
- $431 + 3 demerit points x 4 possible fine opportunities in 3 years
- $646 + 4 demerit points x 3 possible fine opportunities in 3 years

Best to milk the cash cows without taking their licenses…..Or is that too obvious……

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

It's $231 in Victoria so we're not far behind Australia's Florida

I wonder how many people here actually get done for under 10. If you haven't had a ticket for 2 years, you can apply for the "review", which is pretty much automatic to have the fine waived :P

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

I wonder how many people here actually get done for under 10. If you haven't had a ticket for 2 years, you can apply for the "review", which is pretty much automatic to have the fine waived :P

Speeding infringements (fixed and mobile cameras)

Exceed speed by less than 10km/h

Q2 (Oct - Dec) 2022-23 - 244,304

https://www.vic.gov.au/statistics-quarter-2-2022-23

There you go, 200,000+ people

As far as I go, I've never had a speed camera fine in 13 years on the road, nor a 'traffic offence' for that matter

Well technically its 12 years on the road with 13 months being told to sit in the corner

I wonder if that under 10 thing would work for me because i've never had any demerit points.

[deesun]

In QLD 6k over you will generally still be ok, 7 over is a nono.

[csv8]

Originally Posted by deesun

In QLD 6k over you will generally still be ok, 7 over is a nono.

There are cases on the news of people being fined 2km over. But they challenged it in court and the fines cancelled. A waste of Police time. Police need to be clear on what the limit etc is.

[T3rminator]

I reckon the mobile speed cameras that are stacked at the back of contractor's cars have a decent buffer. Went past one 6 over a few months ago and never got a ticket.

I think the ones mounted on HWP and handheld lasers have a 2kmh margin of error. Same as the red light / speed cameras mounted on intersections. The infringement notices will have an "detected" and "alleged" speed. Alleged will be lower.

[rare ss]

Gee thats harsh, $100 in WA

[prydey]

Originally Posted by csv8

. Police need to be clear on what the limit etc is.

Yeah, that big sign on the side of the road with a black number in a red circle is very confusing

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by rare ss

Gee thats harsh, $100 in WA

I swear its based on the states bank balance!

Its money for jam unfortunately and they are used to it.

[simon varley]

so let's get this straight - a 20 year message that speed kills, only 5% of those fined were in the 'significant speed' range, and yet we are in the middle of the highest road toll for years? maybe, just maybe, it's not speed that's the problem?

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by prydey

Yeah, that big sign on the side of the road with a black number in a red circle is very confusing

sure, but I think the question was around what limits the police should prosecute for. In the UK there are very clear guidelines from ACPO about this. As long as Australia has a zero tolerance policy, then you are correct, but if they continue to police low level speeding to this extent, is it any wonder that people believe it's about revenue, not road safety?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by simon varley

so let's get this straight - a 20 year message that speed kills, only 5% of those fined were in the 'significant speed' range, and yet we are in the middle of the highest road toll for years? maybe, just maybe, it's not speed that's the problem?

How dare you bring logic into this argument

[prydey]

Originally Posted by simon varley

sure, but I think the question was around what limits the police should prosecute for. In the UK there are very clear guidelines from ACPO about this. As long as Australia has a zero tolerance policy, then you are correct, but if they continue to police low level speeding to this extent, is it any wonder that people believe it's about revenue, not road safety?

It is revenue, but it's completely voluntary.

It isn't difficult to control the speed of your vehicle. I know I sound like an old fart, but I contributed plenty when I was younger and spent half a year on a bus as well, so I was pretty slow to learn too.

Speeders, and pretty much all impatient road users, are just poor at maths. It's that simple. Running that red light (orange is red), tailgating, speeding etc are all signs that the driver thinks they're being held up, or trying to make up time.

The fact is, if they were good at maths, they'd soon quickly realise that any time they were gaining could be counted in seconds. Rarely in minutes. Never in hours.

My money is for me.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

It is revenue, but it's completely voluntary.

It isn't difficult to control the speed of your vehicle. I know I sound like an old fart, but I contributed plenty when I was younger and spent half a year on a bus as well, so I was pretty slow to learn too.

Speeders, and pretty much all impatient road users, are just poor at maths. It's that simple. Running that red light (orange is red), tailgating, speeding etc are all signs that the driver thinks they're being held up, or trying to make up time.

The fact is, if they were good at maths, they'd soon quickly realise that any time they were gaining could be counted in seconds. Rarely in minutes. Never in hours.

My money is for me.

Makes a difference over an interstate trip though, I had an average speed of 106km/h between North Adelaide and home, did it in 6 hours 52 minutes driveway to driveway for 732km on my last trip out there.

Left 3:30AM Adelaide time on Easter Sunday

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Makes a difference over an interstate trip though, I had an average speed of 106km/h between North Adelaide and home, did it in 6 hours 52 minutes driveway to driveway for 732km on my last trip out there.

Left 3:30AM Adelaide time on Easter Sunday

106 v 100 km/h over a 1000km journey, for eg, makes a difference of 36 minutes (excluding any hold-ups along the way due to traffic, etc). Hardly earth shattering.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Makes a difference over an interstate trip though, I had an average speed of 106km/h between North Adelaide and home, did it in 6 hours 52 minutes driveway to driveway for 732km on my last trip out there.

Left 3:30AM Adelaide time on Easter Sunday

Did it really make that much difference in your life in the bigger picture?

So what, you saved an hour. It's not that big a deal in the scheme of things.

It's in human nature to give the 2 finger salute to authority.

[Cav]

The speedo in the Kia is 4kms/h slow

I set the cruise to 100, 110 or whatever the posted limit is.

I get tailgeted often, then they overtake in a flurry.

A few kms later I catch up with them and they hare off again.

I use 5.9l/100kms this way, travelling fuss and stress free.

Stick to the limit and you won't be fined.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Cav

I get tailgeted often, then they overtake in a flurry.

A few kms later I catch up with them and they hare off again.

That describes my work commute.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

106 v 100 km/h over a 1000km journey, for eg, makes a difference of 36 minutes (excluding any hold-ups along the way due to traffic, etc). Hardly earth shattering.

Just because the speed limit says 100km/h it doesn't mean you'll average 100km/h on an interstate trip, or that I was doing 106km/h.

To maintain an average of 106km/h across the entire journey (which includes crossing Adelaide CBD and inner suburbia to pop out the SE side), as well as knowing about the average speed cameras along the Dukes Highway in SA, how fast do you think I was moving on the back roads, the highway on the safe sides of the cameras and between all the little towns on the VIC side avoiding the Western Highway?

If you drive between Melbourne and Adelaide on the Western Freeway/Western Highway you'd struggle to have an average speed of 70km/h, last time I took someone's advice to stick to the highway it took me 8.5 hours to get to the same destination because of road works and slow traffic.

I've pretty much taken the **** out of the speed limit for 12 years and the one time I got caught was by the local police on my local roads - not one camera fine or low range speeding ticket.

I've had one high range offence that cost my licence.

I'm very dubious on the 'speed kills' mantra, I reckon the limits are way too low.

There's no reason why the Tullamarine/Monash Freeway can't be 150km/h in the early hours of the morning when you have a five lane wide each direction freeway between 10 other cars.

Something I noticed was NSW drivers move way quicker on their freeways than VIC ones do, driving around Sydney is an absolute dream in comparison to Melbourne, if you don't start moving the moment the light turns Green in Sydney you got five people on the horn and that's the way it should be.

[prydey]

When in traffic, I leave a gap in front. I look ahead to see what's happening. If lights are red further up, what's the point of attaching yourself to the car in front. Often cars will jump out from behind, tailgate in the next lane until passed and then jump in front, as though they have just got themselves to work that bit quicker. I just think, well done champ, you've gained 1 car length.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

When in traffic, I leave a gap in front. I look ahead to see what's happening. If lights are red further up, what's the point of attaching yourself to the car in front. Often cars will jump out from behind, tailgate in the next lane until passed and then jump in front, as though they have just got themselves to work that bit quicker. I just think, well done champ, you've gained 1 car length.

I do the same, traffic bunches up on the side of Melbourne Airport all the time, it's easier just to cruise in 1st gear and idle along than get on the brakes and clutch every 2 seconds. You end up catching up to the people on the brakes and stopping right before they move off again.

The problem in my scenario is people don't know how to merge properly, it goes three lanes into one.

But suburban driving is a completely different kettle of fish compared to rural driving outside the metropolitan areas of our capital cities.

There is absolutely no reason you should be doing less than the speed limit on highways and freeways, unless there's hazards like rain et al.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Just because the speed limit says 100km/h it doesn't mean you'll average 100km/h on an interstate trip, or that I was doing 106km/h.

Thanks for pointing that out. Would never have known that otherwise

I don't get the argument though. If you'd averaged 150km/h across that same trip, you could have done it in 4h 52m. Could've saved yourself another 2 hours!

Maybe I should have said, 106 v 100 km/h average over a 1000km journey, for eg, makes a difference of 36 minutes (excluding any hold-ups along the way due to traffic, etc). Hardly earth shattering.

Is that better?

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm very dubious on the 'speed kills' mantra, I reckon the limits are way too low.

Get outta here! Never would have guessed by the way you continually go on about it.

Life's short, Franco. As you get older I'm pretty sure you'll come to appreciate what some of us 'oldies' appreciate: take the time to smell the roses. Or, as per my signature, life's a journey, not a destination.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I've pretty much taken the **** out of the speed limit for 12 years and the one time I got caught was by the local police on my local roads - not one camera fine or low range speeding ticket.

I recently heard the tragic story of a guy who died in a plane crash. My work colleague was mates with him. This guy ended up crashing his plane after striking powerlines. The investigation showed that this pilot had a history of breaking the rules. After many, many times of not having any consequences to his actions, he paid the ultimate price. Thankfully for others, he was lined up to overfly the local pub at low altitude before he struck the wires and the plane fell short of the pub. It could have very easily been a different outcome, however.

Now, I'm not suggesting for a second that your actions are dangerous. Just because you've got away with it for so long (apart from the recent gotcha) doesn't mean you'll continue to get away with it. In the safety world, particularly aviation, it's called normalisation of deviance. That is exactly what is happening here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Life's short, Franco. As you get older I'm pretty sure you'll come to appreciate what some of us 'oldies' appreciate: take the time to smell the roses. Or, as per my signature, life's a journey, not a destination.

I recently heard the tragic story of a guy who died in a plane crash. My work colleague was mates with him. This guy ended up crashing his plane after striking powerlines. The investigation showed that this pilot had a history of breaking the rules. After many, many times of not having any consequences to his actions, he paid the ultimate price. Thankfully for others, he was lined up to overfly the local pub at low altitude before he struck the wires and the plane fell short of the pub. It could have very easily been a different outcome, however.

Now, I'm not suggesting for a second that your actions are dangerous. Just because you've got away with it for so long (apart from the recent gotcha) doesn't mean you'll continue to get away with it. In the safety world, particularly aviation, it's called normalisation of deviance. That is exactly what is happening here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance

I don't think I will, I score high on reactance and I'm someone who is more inclined to engage in risky behavior than the average person.

I'm quite interested in that link to normalisation of deviance, I haven't heard of that before and it makes sense (seems to be associated with aviation).

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Just because the speed limit says 100km/h it doesn't mean you'll average 100km/h on an interstate trip, or that I was doing 106km/h.

To maintain an average of 106km/h across the entire journey (which includes crossing Adelaide CBD and inner suburbia to pop out the SE side), as well as knowing about the average speed cameras along the Dukes Highway in SA, how fast do you think I was moving on the back roads, the highway on the safe sides of the cameras and between all the little towns on the VIC side avoiding the Western Highway?

If you drive between Melbourne and Adelaide on the Western Freeway/Western Highway you'd struggle to have an average speed of 70km/h, last time I took someone's advice to stick to the highway it took me 8.5 hours to get to the same destination because of road works and slow traffic.

I've pretty much taken the **** out of the speed limit for 12 years and the one time I got caught was by the local police on my local roads - not one camera fine or low range speeding ticket.

I've had one high range offence that cost my licence.

I'm very dubious on the 'speed kills' mantra, I reckon the limits are way too low.

There's no reason why the Tullamarine/Monash Freeway can't be 150km/h in the early hours of the morning when you have a five lane wide each direction freeway between 10 other cars.

Something I noticed was NSW drivers move way quicker on their freeways than VIC ones do, driving around Sydney is an absolute dream in comparison to Melbourne, if you don't start moving the moment the light turns Green in Sydney you got five people on the horn and that's the way it should be.

The great unwashed cant have a 150km hr speed limit.

The facebookers cant drive that fast and not crash. The texters cant drive that fast and not crash. And the over 75 s cant drive that fast and not crash.

In Qld they are flat out driving 10 kms under the freeway limit. Few drive over the limit.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I don't think I will, I score high on reactance and I'm someone who is more inclined to engage in risky behavior than the average person.

I'm quite interested in that link to normalisation of deviance, I haven't heard of that before and it makes sense (seems to be associated with aviation).

As stated in the wiki page, it was developed by Diane Vaughan when looking into the Challenger disaster. A great philosophy to understand.

To bring it back to topic (somewhat), this example relates to mobile phone usage in vehicles and the normalisation thereof:

Your phone bleeps while you’re driving and you can’t resist the temptation to look—after all it could be important! You check your messages and continue driving without incident. Given the frequency and banality of such occurrences, you might even start to tell yourself it’s perfectly safe to regularly perform the behaviour. The increased practice leads to familiarity and ‘habit’ such that the actions become a normal part of your driving routine.

The lack of bad outcomes can reinforce the ‘rightness’ of trusting past practices instead of objectively assessing the risk, resulting in a cultural drift in which circumstances classified as ‘not okay’ slowly come to be reclassified as ‘okay’. Diane Vaughan coined the term ‘normalisation of deviance’ and defines it as ‘the gradual process through which unacceptable practice or standards become acceptable. As the deviant behaviour is repeated without catastrophic results, it becomes the social norm for the organisation.’

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

As stated in the wiki page, it was developed by Diane Vaughan when looking into the Challenger disaster. A great philosophy to understand.

To bring it back to topic (somewhat), this example relates to mobile phone usage in vehicles and the normalisation thereof:

That theory also has cross over with a lot of societal change as well over the past say 20 years, certainly an interesting rabbit hole I'm going to go down.

The phone usage thing is interesting, they tell you that its a big distraction and you can't use your phone while driving, however new cars have massive screens in them with things you can fiddle with flat out.

The fines and demerit points are also priced in a way that its not enough to discourage you to use your phone while driving, if they made it four figures and 10 points, its a bit too expensive for the average motorist.

I look at our speeding fines, and 10-24 over carries the same fine, its easily the best value speeding offence in terms of demerit points and fine value, on a clean licence you can get done three times, still keep your licence and all in be under $1500,

If you're going to risk the fine for 10 over, you might as well as do 24 over (excl 110 zones), you're not going to get discretion from Victoria Police anyway on the 10 over.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by FC

I look at our speeding fines, and 10-24 over carries the same fine, its easily the best value speeding offence in terms of demerit points and fine value, on a clean licence you can get done three times, still keep your licence and all in be under $1500…

In Sydney, NSW, even one point will add typically about $300 to a green slip price. So if you have five registered cars () that’s another $1500/yr over an effective period of three or four years.

I’m opposed to enforcement cherry-picking; low range speeding - especially by mobile cameras - is largely this, and would prefer a greater and more social presence of police in the community. If you could get accredited dash cameras and their mounting fitted with a tamper-proof seal by the police or a government agency, it might be useful for prosecution of other behaviours that wind up motorists. Like tailgating.