AU real time tuning up and running

5.0 ED · 02-04-2010, 01:18 PM

After many hours of cursing, buying 3 different software packages, and having pretty much no hair left on my head. I've got it up and running on AU v8's. I'm talking about the moates quarterhorse.

Works very good once i sorted out the bugs in working with our aussie tunes compared to the us one's.

The advantages to this really are enormous, tunes can be done a lot more accurately and in well under half the time, not to mention i can now log my LC1 wideband against RPM/tps/maf and the eec's own load scaling, allowing me to see completely what is going on in the eec's eye's, not just guessing which load point its at.

InfernoSR · 02-04-2010, 03:24 PM

Awesome stuff!! this is one thing i want to do aswell, but not for sometime just yet...

xr8ute · 02-04-2010, 09:21 PM

Good to see you back on the forums and playing with another nice Ford

Which software package did you settle on? Are you doing any datalogging with the Quarterhorse, or just datalogging analogue style with the LC1..?

The Quarterhorse is a great bit of kit, and so cheap. The real-time tuning makes everything soo much quicker.

Have you added much to the def compared to the one loaded on the tiperformance site? I dont have any of the scalars, and functions in mine to change the injectors (slopes, offset, cranking pw etc..).

Would be interested to hear how you went running the AU computer, and loom in the ED....any dramas with the dash/BEM?

Welcome back

5.0 ED · 03-04-2010, 01:24 AM

Yeah im not updating tiperformance site, if im putting work into something and i mean a lot of work, im not giving it to someone else for them to make money out of it.

I'm using binary editor now, i have some datalogging running, just takes time to go through it and work out whats what, currently i have speedo, air temp, coolant temp, batt voltage, tps. rpm is a little trickier, but its there, just harder to spot, dont help that my car dont exactly idle stable.

Yes i have heaps more settings now than whats in the original def, i've concentrated completely on nvxf3 strategy as used in 00 ts50 auto, giving me adaptive shift etc.

I've done 2 conversions now, first my ED and just recently an XG ute, both up and running and driving daily. bem doesn't matter cause you just disable smartlock and smartshield in the j3 chip, which you have to do to put in a j3 chip anyway. and the dash all the signals, tach etc. are all there except coolant temp, which i just ended up putting an orig one in intake manifold.

i have inj slopes, offset, crank pw etc. plus extra touque reduction settings, decel fuel cut settings, ummm lots more, nearly a complete def except the trans settings, which will come with time. oh and dam thermo fan temp settings are eluding me, which i want to change cause AU's turn on low speed fan at about 60c, turn them off at bout 30kms/h, and dont turn the hi speed fans on till somewhere over about 120c. And the ole ED gets hot sitting on 40km/h thru town with the 3.9's.

banarcus · 03-04-2010, 03:00 PM

I know you are playing with an AU engine, but would you and other guys playing with the moates stuff be interested in sharing different ideas, tips etc when it comes to DIY tuning? I thought about the TI stuff but real time tuning is the go with a DIY approach.

5.0 ED · 03-04-2010, 03:26 PM

banarcus - i am more than happy to help anyone needing help with their def's, at the end of it, i plan on having a full set of E-AU done, i also working on a full range of commodores defs too. But as i said before im not interested in helping someone who's making money out of it or planning too.

Where i want to see this take off is the do it yourself person, who wants to be able to change things with mods etc which i am as said more than happy to help, put things into a workshop scenario and costs get out of control, and it rubs me the wrong way seeing my work in days and weeks not just hours that have gone into a def, getting used to tune a car whereby the workshop is making $100 an hour on. So where do we go from here?

banarcus · 03-04-2010, 08:58 PM

I'm hearing you 100%. Jaysen from down Richmond way(NSW) showed me what was possible with the American stuff in 2008, all that was needed was someone putting in a lot of time finding where things were hiding in our local bins and then building definitions etc. It's time to get my head around this as there are really bugger all people up my way that tune efi windsors plus I've got the time to do it and I'm always up for a challenge.

I've been having a play around with the def/bin that Jaysen created for TunerPro for a year or two now, not in the car, just on my PC as I wanted to accustom myself with the tables, functions, scalars etc. TunerPro 5 is still hasn't been released so I'm looking at binary editor so I've started to get my head around that now. Steep learning curve now.

5.0 ED · 03-04-2010, 10:00 PM

yes it is, main problem i had is that the bin i read from the eec with tunerpro didn't work when i wrote it with binary editor, no longer having access to the ts50 eec, i had to actually had edit it and change it around to suit binary editor.

AuV8Fairlane · 06-04-2010, 02:05 AM

Hey guys, I too have been looking into this and am interested in getting involved in ripping apart these bins. I'm a software engineer so i have a good background on the subject, well i hope so lol. I've got tunerpro RT loaded up and have started looking thru the bin and def files. I'm currently looking at buying the quarterhorse from moates and something like a LC-1 as well. Basically i would like to start unlocking some of the eec's features for my Fairlane such as adaptive shift etc and start tuning it and hopefully everyone can get access to these features. If i remember correctly the moates J3 chips can store multiple bins and can be changed over with a switch, i wonder if this can be done on the fly or does the car have to be off? that would be a interesting feature, so you could have a full on tune with big advance etc etc and another for daily driving...

Matt.

InfernoSR · 08-04-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuV8Fairlane

If i remember correctly the moates J3 chips can store multiple bins and can be changed over with a switch, i wonder if this can be done on the fly or does the car have to be off? that would be a interesting feature, so you could have a full on tune with big advance etc etc and another for daily driving...

Matt.

Thats what i was talking about a while back when i ripped my std tune off my AU2 SR 5.0ltr with james22 for 5.0whiteaughia... if memory serves me right (sometimes it can), 5.0whiteaughia told me that is really isnt worth it, may aswell tune the engine to be the best it can be in both economy AND power...

HOWEVER, with my more recent decisions towards my car, i will be seeing how an AU computer can be adapted to run a supercharged stroker with a kicker switch to boost horsepower when i hit it...

5.0 ED · 08-04-2010, 10:37 PM

Yeah a good tune is a good tune, the eec has power settings and economy settings for a reason. The is good reason to do switches for other reasons thou, like different fuels etc.

Moates J3 chip can be switched between 2 programs on the go, while your driving along, the only thing is if you use just a normal switch with no caps on it, you can disrupt the eec temporarilly and get a surge.

Tunerpro RT does not work with the quarterhorse on eec 5 applications, and in the latest convo's with him it doesn't sound like he plans on fixing it, cause being GM guy he doesn't have anything to test it with.

As for adaptive shift it isn't a matter of turning it on or off, the t series etc. that had it, had a different program in them, so you have to use an adaptive shift bin.

I have the LC1 and its a nice unit, works great, only problem i have is that on my newish laptop i have no USB ports and it requires serial, and being that im running windows 7, i am yet to come across an adapter that works. Which will be really great when i can, cause then with binary editor i can log the lc1 against the rpm/tps etc. that binary editor reads off the quarterhorse.

I recommend if you really want to get into this, save yourself the effort and go straight for binary editor, it is the only one that i have been able to actually get the quarterhorse running with.

banarcus · 16-04-2010, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5.0whiteaughia

yes it is, main problem i had is that the bin i read from the eec with tunerpro didn't work when i wrote it with binary editor, no longer having access to the ts50 eec, i had to actually had edit it and change it around to suit binary editor.

Do you suggest that I start from scratch with a DL V8 bin in binary editor? I hope you guys dont mind me asking plenty of questions hehehe.

5.0 ED · 16-04-2010, 09:59 PM

questions are good, i wouldn't have posted this up if i didn't want people asking questions.

Now i suggest you find one you can read off into binary editor, it'll make your life a lot easier cause the bin will be in the correct format.

Is there any particular reason you want a bin from a DL?

What car are you planning on using this in, and is it with the factory eec? I do have partial defs for most already started

Cam · 16-04-2010, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuV8Fairlane

Hey guys, I too have been looking into this and am interested in getting involved in ripping apart these bins. I'm a software engineer so i have a good background on the subject, well i hope so lol. I've got tunerpro RT loaded up and have started looking thru the bin and def files. I'm currently looking at buying the quarterhorse from moates and something like a LC-1 as well. Basically i would like to start unlocking some of the eec's features for my Fairlane such as adaptive shift etc and start tuning it and hopefully everyone can get access to these features. If i remember correctly the moates J3 chips can store multiple bins and can be changed over with a switch, i wonder if this can be done on the fly or does the car have to be off? that would be a interesting feature, so you could have a full on tune with big advance etc etc and another for daily driving...

I like the way you think, I am a little saddened that the OP hasn't paid any interest to your post. I think you raise some great points.. Given that your a coder I would've expected more interest!

AuV8Fairlane · 17-04-2010, 04:14 AM

Thanks Cam, no it's all good. I guess it might be because nobody on here knows me which is fair enough. But believe me i'm serious about ripping these binaries apart. So much so i've started building a program that basically extracts all the information in all the def files and stores them in a custom database which i have already built so i can run some analysis of constants,scalars,tables and flags to get an idea of the binary layout and figure out the size changes between bins and where program components start and end and also what the address offset is between bins.

Basically there is a program (logic) component which is written based on what the model specification is so things like adaptive shift is an added piece of integrated code with some additional data which is not present in a non adaptive shift cars. I've got a binary editor up and running as well now. Now to start ordering stuff from moates!

5.0 ED · 17-04-2010, 07:02 AM

So what bin's/def's have you got, there is many ways of doing this, and there has been a few people in the past/currently working on such programs/databases like you talk about.

As for the adaptive shift, yes the adaptive shift can just be added in etc. but no one has worked out the complete logic of the eec's yet AFAIK. But in order of looking at an adaptive shift bin, and a "normal" bin, they are fairly different, looks like previous trans settings have been removed and replaced with it, rather than it just be added in.

On the other side, why not just work and install an adaptive shift bin from the start? Just cause yours is a v8 fairlane, doesn't mean you could not install a series 1 xr8 auto bin, and have the adaptive shift, as far as engine tune is concerned, the tune is basically the same.

AuV8Fairlane · 17-04-2010, 08:09 PM

As i've found out the ford eec family are run on Intel 8061 & 8065 chipsets all proprietary to ford. But it seems some people have made advances with using available assemblers from closely related chipsets. I have a few defs and bins but not as many as i'd like mainly EF/EL and AU. Thats why i need the equipment from moates to rip the binaries from the eec's. Yeah i'm aware the xr8 has the adaptive shift and the tunes are very similar, and thats one way i was looking at.

I have a pretty good knowledge of mechanics and electronics, i have done all the work on my cars over the years myself eg. engine and gearbox rebuilds, suspension and brake work as well as a fair bit of restoration work. So much so that i'm about to install a car hoist in my shed in the backyard, the neighbours will really love me lol. Adaptive shift isn't a huge priority just more wondering whats possible and also doing some tuning to get more out of the fairlane. Also another interesting thing would be the differences in the code from series 1 to series 2/3.

I've got a reasonable idea as to how the logic would be structured, hard part is knowing exactly whats going on... and it looks to be efficent considering the 256k bin is mainly padding and a decent chunk of what's there is constants/scalars/tables/flags etc. Would definitely like to chat about this some more, always good to get some more discussion happening. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

5.0 ED · 20-04-2010, 07:15 PM

From what i have seen the difference between series 1,2,3 etc is just a minor line added here or there to fix bugs etc. As far as fuel tables and spark they are all the same for the same motor, aka 175kw S1 and S3 have the exact same maps. even the injector hi/low slopes are the same even though S2 onwards got bigger injectors.

5.0 ED · 22-04-2010, 09:34 PM

i just wanted to update that with me saying bout the defs being used by others to make money tuning peoples cars, that it is not jason i am talking about directly nor his actual website tiperformance, there is a workshop i know of using the tunes off his website, and of no direct connection to jason.

I do apologise to jason, i should have clarified it more earlier on.
I really should have pointed that out earlier.

AuV8Fairlane · 29-04-2010, 02:21 AM

Well after a bit of good old code disassembly have found references to things like Low_Speed_Output, BiDirect_Port, AD_Lo, Watchdog_Timer, AD_Hi, AD_Command as well as a stack of High speed input/output references and memory bank selects. I can see now how SCT has managed to write their own code. Wouldn't of been easy tho. Still finding out a lot more as time goes on. Unfortunately atm i can only work on this on weekends etc.

Also I think i know of the workshop your talking about. A friend of mine ordered a tune for his turbocharged e series XR6. Came with a T.I. Performance J3 Programmer and J3 chip. In the end it wasn't running right and after finding the right def on tiperformances site I managed to tune the car myself with great results, don't think he liked it when i set a 2500rpm rev limit tho lol.

I agree everyone should be able to have access to this kind of tuning without being held to ransom for it. My only issue is if someone doesn't know what they are doing they can do really serious damage to their engine.

FPV_GTp · 01-12-2012, 10:34 AM

Old posting revved up

All starts as a hobby and ends up being a business money maker

It is amazing how all the USA Ford eec4 eec5 and the flash tuners software/hardware is Monopolised for the Australian Ford market place. The sellers become "DEALERS" LOL.

It hurts to see the huge price difference we have to pay here in Australia.

Some of the explanations some " dealers " give cracks me up laughing, " R&D " = line their pockets.

LOL interesting reading , probably get my ***_kicked for not being politically correct LOL

cheers