AU Auto vs Manual i6 which is better..why?

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 05:09 PM

Just say that there are 2 identical cars and both are doing a 1/4 mile.One is a manual and one is an auto. Diffs are the same. Which car will get to the line quicker? Are there any manual shifting for the auto to get it moving? Where is the disadvantage and advantage?
Any tips?

EA2BA · 13-10-2005, 05:11 PM

Assuming both drivers can drive the cars the optium in shift speed and gear change.

The manual has less loss through the drive train, and better gearing, so should win.

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 05:13 PM

Where is optimum shift point?

EA2BA · 13-10-2005, 05:14 PM

The optimum shift point is when the car has reached max power for the gear and engine (well just before to allow for lag).

EFFalcon · 13-10-2005, 05:18 PM

well.. no
optimum shift depends COMPLETELY on power curve.

manual is better until we're talking high HP.

Racecraft · 13-10-2005, 05:43 PM

every 'Wheels' type test has the manuals .5 of a sec quicker over 400m

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 05:43 PM

So let the auto create max torque multiplication down low then manually shift through 2 nd and third?

stiddy · 13-10-2005, 05:45 PM

i'd say the manual is faster depending on driver.. if both cars are resonably stock
and my idea of optimal shift point in an i6 would be about 5,600 or a little more.just before revlimit, so when you change gears, it drops the next gear right into the power band.. where as when you change end of power band it will drop the revs of the next gear below the power band and then having to work its way back into the power band would make it slower

well thats my opinion

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 05:53 PM

Do you think that the fact that each of my gears start at 3200-3500 rpm now help my situation?I have found the manual much more consistent in power delivery that mu auto.Sometimes I fang it and it just keeps going other times it seems a bit laggy.I think its the torque request engine control function on pin 6 of all AU ecus.To top it off a knock sensor which kills timing.

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 05:57 PM

btw Stiddy I reckon your a top bloke mate.

13-10-2005, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

Just say that there are 2 identical cars and both are doing a 1/4 mile.One is a manual and one is an auto. Diffs are the same. Which car will get to the line quicker? Are there any manual shifting for the auto to get it moving? Where is the disadvantage and advantage?
Any tips?

the manual will ,you can build the revs up and launch them a bit harder off the line. plus they don't lose as much power through the drive line .
but a shift kit and a stally the auto will kick **** .

stiddy · 13-10-2005, 06:12 PM

you sure about that Nik lol yes the stally and shift kit helps but i wouldnt say kicking ***..

and useless yeah was good this morning, great to meet ya.. gotta do it again

where does your auto shift at useless, what revs?

Casper · 13-10-2005, 06:26 PM

Useless, given all AU's have the same auto ratios and assuming you change at the 5500rpm redline, these are the revs ALL AU autos do....

From 1st to 2nd revs drop to:3,337rpm
From 2nd to 3rd revs drop to:3,793rpm
From 3rd to 4th revs drop to:3,740rpm

stiddy · 13-10-2005, 06:34 PM

sweet thanks casper, but as far as i know stav just leaves it in D and goes.. so i dont think its getting to 5500rpm..
so when it shifts its probably dropping below its power band..
thats just at a guess, not sure if the stall alters this or not but it scoots off the line resonably quick for an au wagon.. was suprised when i was in it this morning..

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 06:35 PM

Stiddy I am not sure what rpm it shifts to...In first but definately up to 5200 rpm.

As you saw today my auto ..when it feels like it, goes like a frighteningly like a rocket and other times seem a bit flat.I think it doesnt help with around 220 kgs in the back boot with cargo barrier either.However when it does take off as you saw it was pretty good. Keeping up with a manual which weighs 50 kgs less from factory and without the excess 220kg boot baggage I had .Its like having 3 guys in the car. Youve got to admit..allowing for this that it went well.
I will be checking rpm points soon and let you know.
Will meet again bud.
Stav

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiddy

sweet thanks casper, but as far as i know stav just leaves it in D and goes.. so i dont think its getting to 5500rpm..
so when it shifts its probably dropping below its power band..
thats just at a guess, not sure if the stall alters this or not but it scoots off the line resonably quick for an au wagon.. was suprised when i was in it this morning..

I dont stall it.Just in drive and fang it.Can I go better by holding the gear?

Stiddy you have a very sexy xr6 man...it looked aweso.me

stiddy · 13-10-2005, 06:41 PM

i think if you stall it up off the line to liek 2500 - 3000 and let it go and hold it in gear till 5500rpm every gear it will be fairly fast..

haha thanks man, its a pretty nice example..

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 06:43 PM

ANd lose the excess weight ......I am experimenting with locking in 3rd gear via ecu.

13-10-2005, 07:15 PM

[QUOTE=stiddy]you sure about that Nik lol yes the stally and shift kit helps but i wouldnt say kicking ***..

yeah i may have got a bit excited ,but they definately make a difference compared to a stocko auto .
i'd still prefer a manual though so dose nik

LOWAU · 13-10-2005, 10:17 PM

I have an Auto AU1 and my brother has got a manual AU1, and I would say the manual is much quicker simply because the car puts more power to the ground.
My car has exaust, extrators and hiflow cat and I managed 15.6 and my bros with just a 3.7 geared LSD diff managed 15flat.

But I like my auto for day to day driving and the odd squirt, but if you are looking for performance, Manual is the go.

**Stav** · 13-10-2005, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOWAU

I have an Auto AU1 and my brother has got a manual AU1, and I would say the manual is much quicker simply because the car puts more power to the ground.
My car has exaust, extrators and hiflow cat and I managed 15.6 and my bros with just a 3.7 geared LSD diff managed 15flat.

But I like my auto for day to day driving and the odd squirt, but if you are looking for performance, Manual is the go.

I like my auto too and know that they can deliver more torque down low than a manual due to torque multiplication.this is why manuals must get off the line with higher revs.

**Stav** · 14-10-2005, 07:36 AM

So has anyone in their real life experience shifted manuallly in an auto and what are your recommendations please? Are the results that much better?

**Stav** · 14-10-2005, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EA2BA

The optimum shift point is when the car has reached max power for the gear and engine (well just before to allow for lag).

Well 147 rwkws at 118kmph in 2nd...and 147. at 155 kmph in 3rd.All from dyno sheets.All I need now is 1st gear dyno.Buggered if i know the revs at these speeds? I am probably wiser to take off in 2nd gear and go from there..1st gear dissappears very quick.....3rd gear peak power is at 5000 rpm.No need to rev it for nothing.

loxxr6 · 14-10-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

So has anyone in their real life experience shifted manuallly in an auto and what are your recommendations please? Are the results that much better?

In my XB/XC Falcon V8's I used to do it. My mate used to in his 186 HG Kingswood too. It prob was quicker, but I don't think the difference was by a startling amount.

SpoolMan · 14-10-2005, 09:05 AM

The manual you can launch of the line harder.....good 60 foot makes a good ET..

Lukeyson · 14-10-2005, 11:40 AM

bad example, but my wifes AU2 xr8 auto sedan Vs my AU2 XR8 manual ute, her car is quicker. But ute is near 100kg heavier

ClassicAU · 15-10-2005, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by useless

So has anyone in their real life experience shifted manuallly in an auto and what are your recommendations please? Are the results that much better?

I actually took my new (to me anyway) stock auto 2001 AUII Futura with 83,000kms on the clock down to calder last night for the first time, and i got two runs. My first I left it in D and turned off eco mode, my second I manually shifted. Both runs I stalled it to about 1500, and lost traction for a second on take off, kind of chirped a few times. Anyway, of the two, my quicker was when i manually shifted by about 0.3 sec. I tryed to shift it just before the red line.
I'm not the best at it, but i was pretty impressed with my times, and the car was cold cos I had to wait about half an hour before they cleared the track of a spill.
I hope that helps.

**Stav** · 15-10-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BargeEA

. My first I left it in D and turned off eco mode, my second I manually shifted. Both runs I stalled it to about 1500, and lost traction for a second on take off, kind of chirped a few times. Anyway, of the two, my quicker was when i manually shifted by about 0.3 sec. I tryed to shift it just before the red line.
I hope that helps.

mate thanks for that....really appreciate it.So a .3 second difference is pretty good.This is good info for all!!

jonbays · 15-10-2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BargeEA

I actually took my new (to me anyway) stock auto 2001 AUII Futura with 83,000kms on the clock down to calder last night for the first time, and i got two runs. My first I left it in D and turned off eco mode, my second I manually shifted. Both runs I stalled it to about 1500, and lost traction for a second on take off, kind of chirped a few times. Anyway, of the two, my quicker was when i manually shifted by about 0.3 sec. I tryed to shift it just before the red line.
I'm not the best at it, but i was pretty impressed with my times, and the car was cold cos I had to wait about half an hour before they cleared the track of a spill.
I hope that helps.

The time is pretty good too best I could get out of mine stock was 16.8 and that was holding second till almost across the line.

ClassicAU · 16-10-2005, 04:33 PM

i was pretty happy with how it went on friday night, considering i had half a tank of fuel, a spare tyre, and my far **** in the car when i did it!
i was told that apparently if i had let my tyres down i would have been able to defeat the wheelspin off the line? and should i have been stalling it higher aswell?
i just wanted to get an idea of how quick it is stock so that when i eventually get enough money up to do upgrades, i know what i have gotten for my money. but that probably wont be for a while.