Next Falcon to be european sourced/designed?

[marcosambrose]

This is purely speculative - Is the next Falcon going to be a rebadged Ford Mondeo due for release in late 2007 in europe?



Would seem feasible, the New Mondeo will feature:

2.3L 4cyl
3.0L 6cyl
3.5L 6cyl (350bhp)
plus - enough room in for a shoehorned V8

in addition to this - AWD/RWD and multiple diesel engines.

Remember, the brits drive on the left, so we can build them here too.

[ebxr8240]

I think decent diesel engines will do real well here..
MUST be REAR wheel drive !!!!!

[Peuty]

In all honesty....I highly doubt it.

[flappist]

Nup..............

[Dezza]

No. Ford has looked at this a number of times before (as well as the american Taurus), and has decided it wouldn't be a smart move.

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by flappist

Nup..............

I'd like to beleive similar but with petrol prices only going vertical, a joint-collaboration between Ford Europe and Ford Oz could make an "Australian Mondeo".

Besides, have you heard or seen any details on the next gen falcon? its pretty hush hush at the moment dont you think?

By 2008 petrol will be 1.70-1.90 in Australia, and if Holden are selling 3.6L V6's as base engines, and ford have 2.3L 4cyl in a car that is only slightly smaller - which one will the australian public choose?

[Bossxr8]

It will still be a unique platform, but it may share some design elements with the Mondeo. There will be no parts shared between them.

[mickey t]

not going to happen.

falcon is deep into its development phase now. very deep.

and expect it to be a slightly bigger car than the current one, too...

on the mondeo, though, Ford Oz is under some pressure to bring it back to Australia. dunno why. do they never learn???

[Poetic Justice]

As a Falcon dont think so.

But as another mondeo i sure hope so, that thing is HOT!

[Danny]

Originally Posted by mickey t

not going to happen.

falcon is deep into its development phase now. very deep.

and expect it to be a slightly bigger car than the current one, too...

on the mondeo, though, Ford Oz is under some pressure to bring it back to Australia. dunno why. do they never learn???

^ Isn't he they guy from Motor Mag, If so, then I beleive what he says... :Reverend: Because I want to beleive that Falcon will continue as is is, and as it should be, that is: A 6 cyl aussie family car with fast sporty variants, and NO 4cylinder models...

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by Danny

^ Isn't he they guy from Motor Mag, If so, then I beleive what he says... :Reverend: Because I want to beleive that Falcon will continue as is is, and as it should be, that is: A 6 cyl aussie family car with fast sporty variants, and NO 4cylinder models...

Yeah - and i want to see Ford's Falcon sales decline even more.

Not critisizing you, just using your statement as an example, Australians need a relality check, petrol isnt getting cheaper, so we have to downsize our family sedans and engines in the next 5 years otherwise the japanese cars will take over.

[Polyal]

It wont happen...but I wouldn't be complaining if we stole the chassis/body nd did our own drivetrains.

I think it will/should happen one day, but not the next falcon, no way in hell.

[MrSparkle]

Next Falcon is it's own device. The Mondeos have been getting pretty good of late though, and it would be nice if we could get them over here for reasonable $$$. Not going to happen though.

Well one thing is for sure, Ford is gonna have to do something different with future Falcons to get people shopping for big cars again. At the current rate, by 2009 nobody will be interested! (Except the parochial and logic-impaired). Hell, even fleets are changing their habits now - and that is a catalyst if ever there was one. It will be interesting to see how Ford AU react to the change in the market with the local products - I'm tipping it will be a firm "head in sand" exercise, which is what they (and Holden above all others) do best. World class, in fact.

[blutura]

Originally Posted by marcosambrose

Yeah - and i want to see Ford's Falcon sales decline even more.

Not critisizing you, just using your statement as an example, Australians need a relality check, petrol isnt getting cheaper, so we have to downsize our family sedans and engines in the next 5 years otherwise the japanese cars will take over.

i'd have to agree with this. Look at the poms; years ago they all drove big sedans as well, but as the cost of fuel rose, they downsized to smaller cars. Now they consider the Focus, Astra, Golf, etc to be 'Family hatchbacks' and the Sedan variants to be 'Family foor door saloons'.

Look at the Top Gear episode where they drove the Monaro, they kept saying how huge it is.

Once upon a time, small cars meant cheap and nasty, and big cars meant space, power and safety. But the reality today is that small european hatches and sedans have just as much, if not more equipment and are just as, and in many cases, more safe than the big Aussie sedans.

Now obviously the main difference between Australia and the UK is that Australia is a much larger country, and we have longer distances to cover. However, the fact remains, family sizes are getting smaller and fuel prices continue to rise. Ask yourself, how much car do you really need?

I'm not saying we should all drive FWD hatchbacks, merely suggesting that for many of us, a Mondeo or Focus with RWD would be all we need.

[Mark351]

But marcosambrose, you need the reality check. The reality is, the time it takes to design from sketch, to computer models, to clay, to prototypes, to testing, to crashing modelling in US-based supercomputers, etc etc takes YEARS to do. They can make running changes as they go, but essentially, once it's signed off, that's what it is. The new Falcon is supposed to have Ford DNA in it according to recent intees with messers Mays and Strong (the latter recently replaced Simon Butterworth, who replaced him during the BA/Terri design phases), so expect it to look similar to the Mondeo above (and the Iosis concept car) - or some other Ford in the family (hopefully not the US 500...)

Ford got a great big grant from the government to R&D improvement to the I6 (so abandon all ye who thinks we'll go V6 or something...) and I imagine most of that would be in the field of fuel economy - because Tom himself said so recently... Read the interviews with the people involved, and you get bits and pieces of information about the new Falcon - instead of making stuff up.

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by blutura

Look at the Top Gear episode where they drove the Monaro, they kept saying how huge it is.

If I recall, the specific reference that was made to the Monaros size was that it would be hard to drive down narrow London streets - which is 100% true.

The UK is also a tiny island compared to ours, and they don't tow giant boats/horse floats/caravans etc nearly as much as we do, and petrol costs 2-3 times as much in the UK as it does for us.

[blutura]

true, but the average income is also higher there.

and they weren't just talking about the Monaros size in relation to narrow streets, they said it was big in general (presumably in comparision to the average car in the UK, which is the Focus/Astra/Golf size.

In any case, I wasn't saying that I agree with 'marcusambrose's' comments that the next falcon may be a slightly modified Mondeo, I was agreeing that most people who own Falcons (And I'm one of them) don't NEED a car of its size, its just that we don't want to drive small FWD cars.

I stand by my comment, that if Ford offered a Mondeo with RWD and choice of n/a 4, turbo 4 or V6 engines, and FPV offered a turbo 6 version, then that would suit most of us more than a big Falcon.

[marcosambrose]

DeathXR, my very first post, the first very line, i stated its purely speculative.

to be honest id prefer an australian built and designed falcon, but at the moment, the europeans are doing it best.

[Mark351]

Yes, but I was referring to your posts thus far as a whole. Sure, details on the new Falcon are sketchy, but read the Motors, the Wheels, the GoAutos etc and you can gleam lots of information that reveal posibilities without actually stating in black and white what it is.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by blutura

Once upon a time, small cars meant cheap and nasty, and big cars meant space, power and safety. But the reality today is that small european hatches and sedans have just as much, if not more equipment and are just as, and in many cases, more safe than the big Aussie sedans.

Not true. Small cars are almost always less safe than their larger counterparts due to ye olde physics. In an accident safety gear isn't everything if you're driving a tin can with very little room to absorb the energy of the crash and ensure you don't end up part of the car. In other words, the amount of vehicle between you and whatever it is that you're hitting/is hitting you, does matter. A lot. A quick read of recent crash test data will illustrate this fact quite nicely.

[marcosambrose]

Thats okay, maybe the next falcon will be australian, but after that - id put my money on a re-engineered mondeo, globalised models (Mazda 3-Focus-Volvo S40) are all the craze because the reduced costs involved in designed and sustaining those models.

[blutura]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Not true. Small cars are almost always less safe than their larger counterparts due to ye olde physics. In an accident, the amount of vehicle between you and whatever it is that you're hitting/is hitting you, does matter. A lot. A quick read of recent crash test data will illustrate this fact quite nicely.

yes, when a heavy car and a lighter car collide, the lighter one will sustain greater damage. But there are a lot of very safe small cars now, and their ability to protect their occupants is quite impressive;

Taken from the euroNCAP site

Occupant protection ratings

Ford Focus - 5 stars
Honda Civic - 4 stars
Holden Astra - 5 stars
Toyota Corolla - 4 stars
VW Golf - 5 stars
ANCAP test results
Ford Falcon - 4 stars
Holden Commodore - 4 stars

As I said, the new crop of small cars are more safer than the small cars of old.

And the less large cars that are on the roads, means the less chance there is of a collision between a large car and a small one.

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by blutura

As I said, the new crop of small cars are more safer than the small cars of old.

And the less large cars that are on the roads, mean the less chance there is of a collision between a large car and a small one.

Yes thats true, and were not comparing a Ford Ka to a Falcon, its a Mondeo vs Falcon, and id rather be surrounded by airbags in a Mondeo than be a falcon when i hit something hard.

[Ghiadude]

it is far far cheaper to engineer a large car for safety than a small car. As for a mondeo is all we need.... yes and no yes we can carry 4 people in a mid sizer like the mondeo but it wont tow and it doesnt eat up the kms like a falcon does. there will always need to be a large sedan in the range.

[WILDTRAKPX2]

No way.

[chevypower]

Many small 4 cyls use about 9-10L per 100km on average, a Falcon uses around 11.5? That's not a big difference, why would you want to sacrifice, size, comfort, power for a tiny saving? They need to run the things on renewable fuel sources no matter what sort of car it is.
Smaller, lighter car with smaller engines was the answer of the 70s oil crisis, hopefully we have stepped up since then

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Many small 4 cyls use about 9-10L per 100km on average, a Falcon uses around 11.5? That's not a big difference, why would you want to sacrifice, size, comfort, power for a tiny saving? They need to run the things on renewable fuel sources no matter what sort of car it is.
Smaller, lighter car with smaller engines was the answer of the 70s oil crisis, hopefully we have stepped up since then

well said, your spot on, most of the larger 4cy, eg 2.0l are not that great of fuel considering their lack of size and power.

ethenal is the answer, as soon as we are able to run our cars on ethanol the better, its renewable, very low emmssions, and it doesnt get charged at the global fuel price

[flappist]

marcosambrose, you really have lost the plot here.

Petrol @ $2.00/litre will NOT stop australian people wanting big rear wheel drive high powered cars.
It is about as relavent and cigarettes at $15 a packet or drinks at $8 each in clubs.

Do you know anyone who has stopped smoking or drinking only because of price?

Sales of V8s and T6s are getting stronger and stronger. If it were going the other way then I would be a bit worried.
Holden have introduced a 6 litre engine accross the range, do you really think they would do that without spending $zillions on market research?

Just because YOU want to buy (and I have owned one so I know first hand) the WORLDS LEAST PERFORMANCE ORIENTATED VEHICLE, the Mondeo, does not mean the rest of Australia does. We voted with our money and the Mondeo/Cougar became extinct.
My wife's Mondeo used to get beaten at traffic light Grand Prix by kids on skateboards, little old ladies on mobility scooters and accellerated only slightly quicker than trees.
It handled like a besa block on stilts and stopped like a marble on glass.
It was quite nice inside and had LOTS of airbags etc and accoring to my wife was cute and a nice colour hence why we bought it.
Yes it used bugger all petrol but that was partly because it was hardly ever driven because I hated it.

Ford dropped the V8 in the last petrol crisis and it hurt them badly, I suspect it won't happen again.

[Iphido]

BF 6 speed auto 6 cylinder has a combined cycle of 10.2
The 3.0L V6 Mondeo 6 speed manual has a combined cycle of 10.3-10.4
The 2.5L Auto has a rating of 10.2 and 0-100 kmph in 10.4 seconds!!

That alone would rule out the Mondeo. However they have a nice diesel that gets 6.1. IMHO its only the diesel that would sell.

The new falcon is only months away now. I would expect to see wheel base grow ~ 40mm for more interior comfort and to better compete as a all in one model (no LWB). Lighter, roomier, faster, quieter, more economical, new style outside and inside, new technology and a 5 star accident rating.

By now tooling should just about be complete. Any spy shots yet?

[marcosambrose]

Originally Posted by flappist

marcosambrose, you really have lost the plot here.

Petrol @ $2.00/litre will NOT stop australian people wanting big rear wheel drive high powered cars.
It is about as relavent and cigarettes at $15 a packet or drinks at $8 each in clubs.

Do you know anyone who has stopped smoking or drinking only because of price?

Sales of V8s and T6s are getting stronger and stronger. If it were going the other way then I would be a bit worried.
Holden have introduced a 6 litre engine accross the range, do you really think they would do that without spending $zillions on market research?

Just because YOU want to buy (and I have owned one so I know first hand) the WORLDS LEAST PERFORMANCE ORIENTATED VEHICLE, the Mondeo, does not mean the rest of Australia does. We voted with our money and the Mondeo/Cougar became extinct.
My wife's Mondeo used to get beaten at traffic light Grand Prix by kids on skateboards, little old ladies on mobility scooters and accellerated only slightly quicker than trees.
It handled like a besa block on stilts and stopped like a marble on glass.
It was quite nice inside and had LOTS of airbags etc and accoring to my wife was cute and a nice colour hence why we bought it.
Yes it used bugger all petrol but that was partly because it was hardly ever driven because I hated it.

Ford dropped the V8 in the last petrol crisis and it hurt them badly, I suspect it won't happen again.

And why are the fleets dropping the Falcons and Commodores?

Fuel Efficiency.

And what counts for half of falcon's sales? Fleet.

Go Figure.