GM workers find out why they gave up right to strike!

[Ohio XB]

I am copying and pasting a post I made at a local message board (local to me in Ohio).


http://content.usatoday.com/communit...vrolet-cruze/1



GM wants all UAW workers at Michigan plant at half-pay rate

Trying to defy the industry maxim that small cars mean small profits, General Motors wants to pay all workers at the plant where it makes its new Chevrolet Cruze compact about half the wages that some other unionized workers earn.


The plan drew about 100 protesters outside UAW union headquarters in Detroit over the weekend, Automotive News reported.

Already, the UAW and GM management have agreed that about 40% of the workers at the Orion Township, Mich., plant will make about half of the $28-an-hour wage that so-called tier-one workers earn, the Detroit Free Press says. Besides the Cruze, the plant will also make the Buick Verano, another compact car.

Lower wage scales for new hires is only the start. Eventually, GM wants to transfer all big-earners out of the plant to make way for only the lower-paid workers:


"We have become 'red circle,' " Mike Dunn, who heads the UAW local at the plant, said in a video to members seen by the Free Press. "No other tier ones will be able to transfer into Orion."

GM says creating a plant with workers at lower wages than the rest of GM is necessary to reduce costs to the point that small cars become profitable again. For long, Detroit's Big 3 automakers either have had a choice of making small cars at a loss in the U.S. or at a profit in Mexico, South Korea or other lower-wage markets.
But Detroit makers may no longer have a choice. As tighter restrictions on fuel efficiency force automakers to produce smaller cars, there will be fewer big, high-profit vehicles that can be made in the U.S.

In the past, concessions like this one from the UAW would have been hard to imagine. But the UAW gave in during GM's financial troubles that culminated in its bankruptcy reorganization filing last year.
The Free Press says:
UAW agreements allow GM to use the second-tier wage in an entire facility. The landmark agreement that allowed for the use of a two-tier wage called for a 25% companywide cap on lower-wage workers starting in 2015, but didn't put caps on individual plants.

Orion workers who accept offers from GM to work in Lordstown, Ohio, will help pave the way for all the workers at the Orion plant to be paid a lower, second-tier wage.

Many Orion workers who were laid off at the UAW's $28 first-tier wage received letters this week offering them a first-tier job at General Motors' Chevrolet Cruze compact car plant 250 miles away in Lordstown, said Pat Sweeney, president of UAW Local 5960 in Orion. The Lordstown plant has 375 assembly and stamping jobs open, Sweeney said, although he did not know how many Orion workers were offered jobs.

.................................................. .................................................. ...............

I know somebody here works at the Lordstown plant. This affects you directly and I have a couple questions. Does Lordstown have a flexible body shop? Are you also building a Buick vehicle off of the Cruze platform?


If the answer is "No" to either or both of those questions, here is something else to ponder. If you have two plants building the exact same vehicle, and one has 1/2 the wages of the other, which would you keep/expand?


This is why we voted NO on giving up the right to strike at Ford. Ford has not had a major strike since the early 1980's or the late 1970's. Why now do they want us to give that up? This article screams why from mountain tops.

GM had a strike in 1970 and not again until 2007 when they struck at 80 plants in 30 States "....because General Motors was unwilling to accept the union's demand that it protect workers' jobs and benefits. "

Now GM is nailing the workers and the workers cannot do a thing about it this time.

From the same article of the strike in 2007.....
For General Motors, its unyielding stance reflects its decision to accept the short-term pain of a strike at 80 facilities in 30 states to achieve its goals: a lower cost structure and more flexible work force to better compete against surging Japanese automakers like Toyota and Honda.

''This really is a defining moment,'' said James P. Womack, an expert on manufacturing and co-author of ''The Machine That Changed the World,'' which studied the plants of Japanese automakers in the United States. ''G.M. has backed away from defining moments for generations. And now somebody there has finally said, 'We have to do this because it's a new era.' ''


Well GM got what it wanted now and the beginning has begun. You know Ford and Chrysler will want the same thing, however, while Ford is making regular profit, and the workers have already given up everything else that GM workers have, the UAW workers at Ford will NOT accept giving up the right to strike. Ford has also said that they can now make money on small cars, and that's why the new Focus is being built in Michigan.


Food for thought. This is a big hit to wages in the US falling, as if they haven't fallen generally enough.


Steve

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Food for thought. This is a big hit to wages in the US falling, as if they haven't fallen generally enough.

Not a good situation. Off shore labour costs are really destroying "advanced" economies. From manufacturing to IT, it's all going off shore to reduce costs.

I wonder where it will end

[Ohio XB]

I wonder where it will end

Maybe when there's no one left who can buy the stuff?

[OLDFORDNUT]

funny most of these companies made and continue to make there money with BRAND LOYALTY,,now GM thinks by destroying that ,they will go ahead into the future, trouble is they will have a whole workforce that wont be able to afford that same important brand loyalty and neither will the whole town around where they are built as the flow on effect of belt tightening will put all surrounding business;s up against the wall.
The old saying of (cant see the woods cause of the tree's ) comes to mind

[82XD393.3v]

bring back the tariffs

[mik]

sounds like stand over tactics to me, sign up for that job , and its do as we tell you, work for half wages and "keep your mouth shut or else".
i thought Goverment Motors was makeing a profit, are they getting GREEDY?

[irlewy86]

Little wonder the US economy is stagnating.

[Wretched]

interesting. quite a big drop. from approx 58k to 29k
What is the skill level of the workers affected?
What is the average US wage?

[Polyal]

And this from a company part owned by the government?

[aussie muscle]

They are getting pwned by the japanese manufacturers, but aren't japanese wages at a similar level? Sounds like an excuse to move offshore to low wage countries.

[msman]

Originally Posted by Wretched

interesting. quite a big drop. from approx 58k to 29k
What is the skill level of the workers affected?
What is the average US wage?

middle class is 40K US, but living cost vary from state to state by a larger amount than here in oz

[Jim Goose]

It never ceases to amaze me how CEOs and board members of major companies are paid a disgusting amount of money, yet the first thing you always see them do it either sack people or try and lower their wages.....

Profits and share prices are what is number one on their minds, nothing else....

[DougM]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

It never ceases to amaze me how CEOs and board members of major companies are paid a disgusting amount of money, yet the first thing you always see them do it either sack people or try and lower their wages.....

Profits and share prices are what is number one on their minds, nothing else....

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!! What a croc........GM executives can't "PAY" each other large cash bonuses but they are each getting millions in shares!!!!!!!!!!!And the average worker suffers.......

I hate the corporate world.......

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by cs123

Not a good situation. Off shore labour costs are really destroying "advanced" economies. From manufacturing to IT, it's all going off shore to reduce costs.

I wonder where it will end

AND is all quite deliberate this 'agenda', been on for decades.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by DougM

I hate the corporate world.......

Company CEOs are paid to maximise their shareholder investment, that is their obligation. To do this they will seek to lower costs through off shore manufacturing. This either drives down the wages of local workers to enable them to compete or it puts the company out of business.

The sad thing is that some of the biggest shareholders are pension plans of workers in the USA, Aus etc.

Kind of ironic, isn't it.

I really don't see an answer apart from government regulation ie tariffs.

[aussiblue]

Getting on my soapbox for a moment:

Actually you can't give up your right to strike just your right to do so with the sanction of the law or without penalty. As has been show over and over in history, he right to strike or withdraw one's labor is one of the few basic human rights that cannot easily be controlled or corruptly manipulated. Witness the success of the Polish Gdańsk Shipyard action and solidarity movement led by Lech Wałęsa against a puppet Soviet supported Government.

[aussiblue]

In addition Article 8 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights (ICESCR),s a multilateral treaty adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December 16, 1966, and in force from January 3, 1976 recognises the right of workers to form or join trade unions and protects the right to strike. It allows these rights to be restricted for members of the armed forces, police, or government administrators.

Nonetheless several parties have placed reservations on this clause, allowing it to be interpreted in a manner consistent with their constitutions (China, Mexico), or extending the restriction of union rights to groups such as fire-fighters (Japan). In regard to the United States - Amnesty International writes that:

"The United States signed the Covenant in 1979 under the Carter administration but is not fully bound by it until it is ratified. For political reasons, the Carter administration did not push for the necessary review of the Covenant by the Senate, which must give its “advice and consent” before the US can ratify a treaty. The Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations took the view that economic, social, and cultural rights were not really rights but merely desirable social goals and therefore should not be the object of binding treaties. The Clinton Administration did not deny the nature of these rights but did not find it politically expedient to engage in a battle with Congress over the Covenant. The George W. Bush administration followed in line with the view of the previous Bush administration." The Heritage Foundation, a critical conservative think tank, argues that signing it would obligate the introduction of policies that it opposes such as universal health care.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interna...ultural_Rights


Also from here: http://www.bookrags.com/research/int...conomic--gwcr/

The United States signed the CESCR on October 5, 1977, but it has not yet ratified the covenant and seems unlikely to do so for the foreseeable future. The U.S. government has consistently been more reluctant to recognize economic and social rights, such as the right to health, education, and minimal standards of food, clothing, and shelter, than it has the civil and political rights recognized in the UN's International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights, a distinction that was often pointed out by the Soviet Union before its collapse.

You would think the current socially conscious US President would have fixed this by now.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by msman

middle class is 40K US, but living cost vary from state to state by a larger amount than here in oz

ok fair enough.

I can see the pay issue from both sides.

From GM's view, they simply cannot sustain paying line workers that kind of money. 58k is good money even here.

While the cost of living is going up, many companies are not able to cope with the rising salaries hence many offshore their work. When and where will it stop? Something needs to be done now. Sure it won't be popular but if it can keep a few more people in work why not?

It will happen here more too.

The problem is too many see the salaries of a select few CEOs and think they should be on the same or the CEO should have their pay cut.
That's fine, but what some don't realise is the work that many CEOs do. Too many just hear the bad stories of a select few corrupt ones.
What about Alan Mullaly? His Ford value is quite large but does anyone here complain? No because of the job he has done.
Being a CEO isn't always as glamorous as people think, it involves a lot of long days, a lot of time away from the family, etc. Their decisions affect the companies success.
Do you really think you could get an Alan Mullaly for pittance?
Of course not.

In my opinion salaries should be performance based. You are paid what your job involves, your qualifications and how well you perform. If you're mediocre, just turn up every day, why should you deserve a pay rise? You're employer shouldn't be bullied into giving pay rises.


I know what I have said won't be popular and I do expect to have upset a few people.

[Ohio XB]

I have not met any Ford workers at the plant I work at or the plant my wife works at that have a problem with what Mulally gets paid, and has been paid. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. As far as I am concerned, Ford Motor Company exists anywhere in the world today because of him.


Yes, the workers still have the right to organize and to strike. As organized labor they also have the right to bargain for most things about their job.

The Federal Government stated to GM, if they were to get the bail out money certain criteria would have to be met. There was a list for Management and there was a list for Labor. One of the things on that list was that the UAW accept suspending the right to strike for 5 (I believe) years. The UAW members approved this, along with the rest of the requested concessions.

Ford UAW members also approved all the concessions that the GM and Chrysler workers did, except for the suspension of the right to strike and one other thing, which I cannot remember at the moment. However, these concessions were given to Ford by the UAW members BEFORE GM and Chrysler we requested to do so. It was a demonstration by the UAW at Ford of the acknoweldgement of the situation in the industry, as opposed to GM and Chysler workers where it was an accepted condition of bail out money.



Over the past 10 years wages have been going down in the US. This has been a result of many factors: More workers than jobs and people taking what they can get, and employers know this. The threat of offshoring jobs to cheap labor. The numerous times labor HAS been offshored to cheap countries. NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) which was supposed to open up easier trade between Canada, the US, and Mexico, and help raise the wages and living standard in Mexico. Yeah, like that was really going to happen.

American jobs went to Mexico and then went to China as China openned to the West. Americans were making too much money, but could afford the products, then the Mexicans who replaced the Americans were making too much money (1.25 US/hr.) when China openned up so they lost their jobs and US companies went to China. Now China has so much work wages have increased to $1 US and sometimes more. Now work is leaving China, where they make too much, and going to Viet Nam.

I am sure something similar is happening in Australia.



As far as the assembly line workers, I can tell you at Ford, by the time you have been there 10 years Ford has spent another $10,000 US in training for you. These are things such as understanding continuous improvement, quality work processes, safety, error proofing, other safety classes, other quality classes and techniques, and more. These are not "trained monkeys" as some have called them here (in the US). They just make it look easy because they have done it so much.

Nobody retires from the line unscathed. People have knees replaced, vertebrea fused, carpal tunnel surgery, hips replaced, braces they will wear the rest of their lives, limps, loss of range of movement, and more. Everybody ends up with something. However, $28/hr is worth it, to most. To do this work and end up with these injuries for $14/hr? Hell no!

The UAW uses a guideline for how level pay is. Back in the 1970's or 80's the top brass on average made 30 times what an assembly line worker made. So let's say the worker made $8/hr. This would mean that top brass was compensated equal to $240.hr. Well, they are running a corporation and are probably worth that.

Today (2010) the top brass average is 300 times more than the line worker.

So is someone being paid too much or is someone being paid too little?

All I know is, changing the wage to $14/hr is going to increase that difference even more.



In the southern part of the country wages are lower. I won't speculate why, I will just state that fact. Most of the foreign car companies who have built plants here in the past 10 - 15 years have built them in the south for this reason. Their workers are paid about $14/hr.

In the northern US wages are higher, typically. Even in foreign plants that have built in the north the wages are higher; about $18 at some, $29 at others, including Toyota. Politicians like to point to the lower wage ones in the south (mostly foriegn owned plants) and say "See? They can do it a lot cheaper!" Well, most companies making anything can do it cheaper there.......but.....you also get what you pay for, which may be why US car manufacturers don't build very far south.


That's all I've got for now.

Steve

[Jim Goose]

Being a CEO isn't always as glamorous as people think, it involves a lot of long days, a lot of time away from the family, etc. Their decisions affect the companies success.
Do you really think you could get an Alan Mullaly for pittance?
Of course not.

Let me put it this way.. are you saying that a CEO earning MILLIONS of dollars is more important then a Doctor, Nurse who works 7 days a week and long hours..
Come off it seriously... they arent saving lives.... Yet your giving high praise for being a manager.

How many people can walk away from their job with a million dallar hand shake? or vote themselves a pay rise??

How much money did MR Mexican Sol (Truillo ?) get paid after he left Telstra?
How many people did he sack?
Do you honeslty believe these type of people have the best interests of the workers of that company at heart or their own back pockets?

As an example our town clerk (Re-tittled "CEO" of the Council) earns over $330 000 PA... this is more then the mayor and more then the PRime Minister of the country.

How is this value for money for the local residents?

Paying people a gross amount for a "mangers" job is obscene to those who do the work or actually contibute something to the community. Like "professional" sports people who are also grossly over paid, yet there is never any money to be found for Hospitals or giving our Doctor and Nurses a pay rise...

[irlewy86]

Your CEO of the local council is probably responsible for a couple hundred million dollars worth of spending each year. Do you really want a monkey?

Same goes for all forms of government though. The head of the ATO would be on a lot more than the PM.

[opto]

Maybe, killing off half the executive staff would have the same financial effect.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Your CEO of the local council is probably responsible for a couple hundred million dollars worth of spending each year. Do you really want a monkey?

Who says they arent monkeys?

How many councils invested in US sub-prime? How many lost a packet? How many have gouged rate-payers to make up the short-fall?

How many council CEOs heads rolled for the above?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

As an example our town clerk (Re-tittled "CEO" of the Council) earns over $330 000 PA...

And then you have the corporate CEOs on millions as a retainer, and millions more for performance.

Some imply that if you're responsible for more $$$, you should get paid more. The flaw with that argument is that while they may be responsible for what happens to those $$$, they're not LIABLE for them. The reward is going up well in excess of the risk.

And let's not assume that because we pay millions we get good CEOs. Sol Trujillo for example, was one of the worst CEO Telstra has had, yet he still made a killing.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by b0son

And then you have the corporate CEOs on millions as a retainer, and millions more for performance.

Some imply that if you're responsible for more $$$, you should get paid more. The flaw with that argument is that while they may be responsible for what happens to those $$$, they're not LIABLE for them. The reward is going up well in excess of the risk.

And let's not assume that because we pay millions we get good CEOs. Sol Trujillo for example, was one of the worst CEO Telstra has had, yet he still made a killing.

In Australia they are responsible though. Its not their fault the bodies who's jobs are to hold these Muppets accountable are limp PR only tinsel coated &%$@.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

I have not met any Ford workers at the plant I work at or the plant my wife works at that have a problem with what Mulally gets paid, and has been paid. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. As far as I am concerned, Ford Motor Company exists anywhere in the world today because of him.


Yes, the workers still have the right to organize and to strike. As organized labor they also have the right to bargain for most things about their job.

The Federal Government stated to GM, if they were to get the bail out money certain criteria would have to be met. There was a list for Management and there was a list for Labor. One of the things on that list was that the UAW accept suspending the right to strike for 5 (I believe) years. The UAW members approved this, along with the rest of the requested concessions.

Ford UAW members also approved all the concessions that the GM and Chrysler workers did, except for the suspension of the right to strike and one other thing, which I cannot remember at the moment. However, these concessions were given to Ford by the UAW members BEFORE GM and Chrysler we requested to do so. It was a demonstration by the UAW at Ford of the acknoweldgement of the situation in the industry, as opposed to GM and Chysler workers where it was an accepted condition of bail out money.



Over the past 10 years wages have been going down in the US. This has been a result of many factors: More workers than jobs and people taking what they can get, and employers know this. The threat of offshoring jobs to cheap labor. The numerous times labor HAS been offshored to cheap countries. NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) which was supposed to open up easier trade between Canada, the US, and Mexico, and help raise the wages and living standard in Mexico. Yeah, like that was really going to happen.

American jobs went to Mexico and then went to China as China openned to the West. Americans were making too much money, but could afford the products, then the Mexicans who replaced the Americans were making too much money (1.25 US/hr.) when China openned up so they lost their jobs and US companies went to China. Now China has so much work wages have increased to $1 US and sometimes more. Now work is leaving China, where they make too much, and going to Viet Nam.

I am sure something similar is happening in Australia.



As far as the assembly line workers, I can tell you at Ford, by the time you have been there 10 years Ford has spent another $10,000 US in training for you. These are things such as understanding continuous improvement, quality work processes, safety, error proofing, other safety classes, other quality classes and techniques, and more. These are not "trained monkeys" as some have called them here (in the US). They just make it look easy because they have done it so much.

Nobody retires from the line unscathed. People have knees replaced, vertebrea fused, carpal tunnel surgery, hips replaced, braces they will wear the rest of their lives, limps, loss of range of movement, and more. Everybody ends up with something. However, $28/hr is worth it, to most. To do this work and end up with these injuries for $14/hr? Hell no!

The UAW uses a guideline for how level pay is. Back in the 1970's or 80's the top brass on average made 30 times what an assembly line worker made. So let's say the worker made $8/hr. This would mean that top brass was compensated equal to $240.hr. Well, they are running a corporation and are probably worth that.

Today (2010) the top brass average is 300 times more than the line worker.

So is someone being paid too much or is someone being paid too little?

All I know is, changing the wage to $14/hr is going to increase that difference even more.



In the southern part of the country wages are lower. I won't speculate why, I will just state that fact. Most of the foreign car companies who have built plants here in the past 10 - 15 years have built them in the south for this reason. Their workers are paid about $14/hr.

In the northern US wages are higher, typically. Even in foreign plants that have built in the north the wages are higher; about $18 at some, $29 at others, including Toyota. Politicians like to point to the lower wage ones in the south (mostly foriegn owned plants) and say "See? They can do it a lot cheaper!" Well, most companies making anything can do it cheaper there.......but.....you also get what you pay for, which may be why US car manufacturers don't build very far south.


That's all I've got for now.

Steve

Excellent piece Steve and who would know better than you and your missus if your both in the thick of it . I share both your views on Alan Mullaly , without him I firmly believe Ford would be in the same boat as G.M. and Chrysler . Boeings loss is Fords gain Thank God .

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Paying people a gross amount for a "mangers" job is obscene to those who do the work or actually contibute something to the community. Like "professional" sports people who are also grossly over paid, yet there is never any money to be found for Hospitals or giving our Doctor and Nurses a pay rise...

I have no issue at all with paying great leaders obscene amounts of money if they are doing a great job.

The bit I do take issue with is "what is doing a great job?".

Now, C-Level operators are retained on short tenure. Their outlook is only as far as the next reporting period to appease shareholders and be able to deliver a result that justifies their existence and bonus. There lays the problem.

The core of the issue is not in having a greedy CEO, it is in having millions of shareholders that will get rid of him unceromoniously if the hard truth doesn't suit their investment strategy, wants and needs. If he doesn't jump through the hoop, he is out on his ear except in the rarest but most publicised of cases.

Privately held companies suffer less from these issues because the investment made is usually done so by fewer people whose entire strategy is the longterm success of that company - not a pretty picture to appease the masses who are really only focussed on how to exit their postion either at a profit or before the whole show falls off a cliff.

Tis one of the failings of our capitalist world... not that I'm not all for capitalism

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Excellent piece Steve and who would know better than you and your missus if your both in the thick of it . I share both your views on Alan Mullaly , without him I firmly believe Ford would be in the same boat as G.M. and Chrysler . Boeings loss is Fords gain Thank God .

Thanks. Yeah, I never thought I would have full appreciation for one of the top brass. However, I have a lot of repect for Derrick Kuzak as well. I know his background, have followed his career since being brought back from Europe, and have exchanged a number of emails with him. I look forward to taking him for a ride in my Mad Max Interceptor when it is done. I am also thankful for Mark fields as well, though at a lower level.

Mulally is not the typical CEO where it is about him. Sure, Mulally gets plenty, but he feels he's earned it (not just "deserves it" because he is CEO), and mostly, I firmly believe it is about the challenge for him, and also the concern for an American icon. He's a real person, not the stereotype we think of when it comes to CEO's. How many times was he baited in interviews to slam GM and Chrysler? His only response....."At Ford we're doing some great things and we've got some amazing products coming that I think you are really going to love."

That's my man!

Now, will "my man" come after my pay? Yup. I can't like EVERYTHING about somebody, LOL.

One thing I would like to remind Mr. Mulally; when Henry Ford said "A company will not prosper if its employees cannot afford to buy the product they are making." Well, you cannot afford a house payment/rent and a new car on $14/hr in the US. Maybe a single person who has nothing could, but not a married couple.

Skilled trades, college degreed people, and people with extensive experience are all getting their wages lowered. The only people to truely prosper anymore are top company brass. We are going back to a two level community, the rich and the poor. The middle class, who pays most of the taxes, are going away. Then who will pay for all the social programs that Obama and the Democrats want?

Steve

[castellan]

Is it not that the foreign companies like Toyota when building cars in the USA are different to GM & Ford in that the whole unionisation system is different for them.
So Toyota Nissan ect are way better off or in a healthier position to perform.
If i am right one of the problems is that the unions have been strangling the companies with so much added expense.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by castellan

Is it not that the foreign companies like Toyota when building cars in the USA are different to GM & Ford in that the whole unionisation system is different for them.

Yeah they don't have a union.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ghlight=toyota