And the V8 dilemma begins... Buying new with limited options.

[BaraFGXR6]

Just thought id throw this in the pub as it has been on my mind since a few test drives and the recent news surrounding FORD MoCo at current.

So with my current lease up at the end of this yeah, the mrs has allowed me to buy a V8 instead of pouring money into the XR6. I was going to argue with her, but she made some valid points with the main one being that i always wanted an 8 and that a 6 will always be 2 short of an 8.

Sounds great huh? Well F--- me side ways its more difficult that i though.

Hopefully Ford will listen as im sure there is a lot of other buyers out there with the same mind frame as myself.

Fact1. Not everyone wants a fire breathing S/C V8 for everyday use. I want the rumble, yes. I want the grunt, yes. I dont want traction breaking/sound barrier warping velocity in a car which will spend 90% of its time on public roads.

Fact2. Ford does not have this! Yes there is the 6t. Great car in its own right but just not for me. "I" Want the V8, couldnt care how many 10ths of a second slower it is or how many killerwasps less it may not have (need i say more?).

Fact3: The holden SS is priced very well and fills out what i need in a car. Its new, comes with warranty and has that V8 grunt without being completely un-manageable on the road. 4 doors, gadgets, can run on e85 and built in Australia. Another bonus is Holden usually have good run out deals at the end of the yeah which is pushing me more.

My reason for disliking the GS, if you could call it a reason at all is that I hate the caged tiger aspect of the GS along with its hefty price tag for what is essentially just a sticker kit and a badge above the normal range of falcon. By caged tiger i mean always having to hold off and be cautious on the throttle so as to not hit mach 2 while just trying to give it a bit of berries.

Then there is a second hand FG XR8. Great car, love driving it and dont mind the lead tip arrow feeling all that much and the performance is manageable for everyday driving on the road. If i knew that they were going to be killed of when i bought my xr6 i would have bought an 8 in heart beat and let the insurance rape me for the first few years. Such is life.

Finding a nice used FG XR8 in manual with warranty and low k's is not only hard but also expensive! I could get a new SS for only a little more coin and have full warranty with a new car. I wouldnt buy a second hand falcon again considering all the faults and problems iv had with my current one.


I hope somewhere, someone in Ford is listening to the consumers and will bring back an affordable V8. I really dont want to go over to the red camp as i grew up in a Ford centric house hold but they really give little choice. And lets not say that cheap v8's dont work as we all know how well the SS is still selling.

I have both fingers crossed that the 2013 line up of falcon will hold a few surprises in the engine department.

[Nic302ef]

i like all them points you have made.

Basicaly balls down to enginering costs etc, clearly it must of cost ford more to fit the 3v into the ba/f low series compared to the numbers sold, or so they would tell us anyway.

Also what does ford have on offer now in the us for 8cyl? if ford australia cant simply chose one at a reasonable cost and be a basic fit into our aussie chassis they arnt going to bother.

[Poetic Justice]

Don't hold your breath.

[jpd80]

Ford hasn't sold a low cost V8 in the past ten years and won't be doing so in the future,
your best chance at the moment is to buy a VE SS for $40,990 drive away...

[BaraFGXR6]

At the time i bought my XR6, a FG XR8 was only 7k more.. Only thing that stopped me was insurance was over a grand more (manual). Paid 38k for my XR6 with all the options i wanted.

I think an XR8 around the 45k mark would sell like hot cakes. Considering this is the price (give or take a grand depending on how well you argue) for a current XR6T, i dont see why Ford should have a massive premium for a different engine.

Sticking a N/A 5.0 into XR and slap a price on it the same as an xr6t for a similar price wouldnt exactly be a bad thing. Hell, the only bad thing i can see is that FPV will lose a few sales.

[OzJavelin]

Love the way business talks about empowering the customer, and letting the customer have the choice, etc, etc .. But cars are basically you buy a specific model with a specific engine and the "options" are just bling thrown on top. Shame with all our advancements we don't have anywhere near the same ability to order significant mechanical options that someone could have done fourty odd years ago:
"So sir wants to order a 351, 4-speed, Fairmont wagon with electric windows, air conditioning, 4wheel disc brakes and heavy duty towbar? Not a problem .."

Be nice to at least have the OPTION of ordering a V8 XT .. Not many would be made but be nice to see a few escape into the wild.

[nuthin' fancy]

The fact that Holden can build a busines case of offering a V8 taxi and Ford cannot is a clear indication that there is no long term support for the falcon platform.

I looked at a choice between a VX SS and a BA XR8 some time ago and felt the SS was a better platform. Unfortuntaely, that particular car was a POS.

[Brazen]

Yeah stuck with a SS I think, a mate two weeks ago traded his Patrol on a SS with sunroof and heavy duty towpack. He has no brand allegiance except to maybe Nissan and Toyota, I would of steered him to a Ford if there was an XR8.

[dimka100]

There will not be an NA V8 any time soon, that ship has sailed long past when FPV decided to drop 40million into the SC development (and something tells me that Ford had a different plan but FPV went with it anyways ...)

The VE SS is a good car, in fact its a better package than the GS by a long shot, if you go for the Redline you get better brembo brakes, proper wide rear wheels, stiffer better balanced suspension, and more gadgets on the inside. Yes the engine is weaker, but a car is not just judged by the engine these days and hence FPV does not sell many GSs.

Then there is a base VE SS that for 40K is awesome value.

Afterall both cars are made in Australia so you will be supporting the local industry equally.

[csv8]

Srt8 300c ???

[Elks]

Just buy a new or ex demo GS.

If your are considering an XR8 that will be used anyway. The coyote/Miami's linear power delivery means you avoid the turbo rush and is incredibly docile, particularly in auto form. I have a 5.0 and my daughter drives it on her L plates without stress. Although she doesn't like the bonnet bulge.

Ive had several VE SSV's as company cars, in both auto and manual and they, owing to poor vision heavy clutch are are way more difficult car.

Also the GTE uses less fuel than the 6.0, even the versions with the AFM.

The only thing an SS has over a GS is it's cheaper, and that is because it's a lesser car.

I repeat get the GS. You don't have to tune it, but you can later if you want.

[BaraFGXR6]

Originally Posted by Elks

Just buy a new or ex demo GS.

If your are considering an XR8 that will be used anyway. The coyote/Miami's linear power delivery means you avoid the turbo rush and is incredibly docile, particularly in auto form. I have a 5.0 and my daughter drives it on her L plates without stress. Although she doesn't like the bonnet bulge.

Ive had several VE SSV's as company cars, in both auto and manual and they, owing to poor vision heavy clutch are are way more difficult car.

Also the GTE uses less fuel than the 6.0, even the versions with the AFM.

The only thing an SS has over a GS is it's cheaper, and that is because it's a lesser car.

I repeat get the GS. You don't have to tune it, but you can later if you want.

I wont lie, price is a big factor in the deciding. And i just dont see the value in the GS beyond the engine. The engine is fantastic but not for me. I wont lie, i love planting the foot and hearing an engine roar! Its one of the most awesome sounds to hear a v8 come on song pulling away from the lights. But at the same time, i want to be able to do that without going 40ks over the speed limit in the blink of an eye. The old 5.4 without a good setup takes the cake for that!

So to avoid temptation, im simply going to remove it and go for something more docile and manageable. Sounds un-manly of me but so be it.

Another important factor i forget to mention is the mrs will need to drive it. Considering she almost crashed the 6t when we were test driving it, id hate to see what she would do with an s/c v8 :P Its not that she cant drive, she just cant drive and manage power without freaking out at the same time - yep, unco as all *******!

Originally Posted by dimka100

There will not be an NA V8 any time soon, that ship has sailed long past when FPV decided to drop 40million into the SC development (and something tells me that Ford had a different plan but FPV went with it anyways ...)

The VE SS is a good car, in fact its a better package than the GS by a long shot, if you go for the Redline you get better brembo brakes, proper wide rear wheels, stiffer better balanced suspension, and more gadgets on the inside. Yes the engine is weaker, but a car is not just judged by the engine these days and hence FPV does not sell many GSs.

Then there is a base VE SS that for 40K is awesome value.

Afterall both cars are made in Australia so you will be supporting the local industry equally.

Sorta what i did not want to hear but i guess that is the reality of it. Still hoping FORD comes through tho

Call me patriotic but buying Australian made is an important factor to me. Rather keep my money here than send it overseas.

I wouldnt waste money on the redline when its cheaper to buy an SS and option the redline brakes in aftermarket.

[sprint347dave]

buy the SS,,,and stick some ford badges on it,,similar to what they do in the aussie nascar,,sorry i mean v8 supercars

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by BaraFGXR6

By caged tiger i mean always having to hold off and be cautious on the throttle so as to not hit mach 2 while just trying to give it a bit of berries.

Then there is a second hand FG XR8. Great car, love driving it and dont mind the lead tip arrow feeling all that much and the performance is manageable for everyday driving on the road.

have you driven either of these vehicles? for a decent amount of time?

the gs is completely docile unless you get up it, which i thought would be the perfect set up?

and imo the 'lead tip handling' of the fg xr8 is so over-stated its almost laughable. yes it may be a bit more nose heavy than the 6, but it is light and day better set up than a b series 5.4. once you get used to it you dont notice it at all.
just like any new car, it has differences that you get used to. different throttle response, clutch take up etc etc.

[Rodge]

No disrespect but this subject has been absolutly thrashed to death in numerous other threads. Just buy the Holden SS and be done with it.

[flappist]

The reason why there is not a N/A V8 falcon is simple.

In the last 10 years:

When they had a V8 right across the range very few bought them.
When they had a FG 5.4 XR8 very few people bought them.

Why make a model that will lose you money as even if there were available now a N/A V8 XR8 for the same price as a XR6T I am fairly confident that there would still be very few people who would buy them.
When I say buy them, I mean NEW at close to RRP not discounted last year plate model run out ex demo at a loss.

You want a new N/A V8 but you are in a very small minority and that just the way things go.

I feel the pain as well, last two times I went to buy a FPV they did not make wanted so I bought something else.

Holden sell lots of V8s as they have no other option, just like Ford did before the advent of the T6.

Your choice is exactly that YOUR choice. Choose the car that best suites your requirements as only YOU know what those really are.....

[Blem]

Originally Posted by sprint347dave

buy the SS,,,and stick some ford badges on it,,similar to what they do in the aussie nascar,,sorry i mean v8 supercars

[I8hsv]

Maybe just get one of those v8 sound things u plug into your lighter socket and be done with it problem solved

[BaraFGXR6]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

have you driven either of these vehicles? for a decent amount of time?

the gs is completely docile unless you get up it, which i thought would be the perfect set up?

and imo the 'lead tip handling' of the fg xr8 is so over-stated its almost laughable. yes it may be a bit more nose heavy than the 6, but it is light and day better set up than a b series 5.4. once you get used to it you dont notice it at all.
just like any new car, it has differences that you get used to. different throttle response, clutch take up etc etc.

Not for a period of time with the GS. Only a 30 min long test drive when me and the old man took one for a fang as he is considering a GT.

I wouldnt call it docile in manual - maybe auto is different but i cant bring myself to buy an auto.
Tough times...

Originally Posted by Rodge

No disrespect but this subject has been absolutly thrashed to death in numerous other threads. Just buy the Holden SS and be done with it.

No offence taken mate. I wish it were as simple as just buying an SS but i still consider myself a Ford man. Curse brand loyalty sometimes!

And i wasnt looking for another debate - more so just some loose discussion to add to thought hence comming to the pub section.

Originally Posted by flappist

The reason why there is not a N/A V8 falcon is simple.

In the last 10 years:

When they had a V8 right across the range very few bought them.
When they had a FG 5.4 XR8 very few people bought them.

Why make a model that will lose you money as even if there were available now a N/A V8 XR8 for the same price as a XR6T I am fairly confident that there would still be very few people who would buy them.
When I say buy them, I mean NEW at close to RRP not discounted last year plate model run out ex demo at a loss.

You want a new N/A V8 but you are in a very small minority and that just the way things go.

I feel the pain as well, last two times I went to buy a FPV they did not make wanted so I bought something else.

Holden sell lots of V8s as they have no other option, just like Ford did before the advent of the T6.

Your choice is exactly that YOUR choice. Choose the car that best suites your requirements as only YOU know what those really are.....

Well said Flappist and i agree with you 100% on the choice part. Cant blame the turbo six for being so good.

I still have the choice of waiting a bit longer, but that will require paying out the balloon on the car which would suck.

Rather than pay the balloon out at the end of this year i would rather bite the bullet and make a choice. I understand when buying a car its all upto the person buying but it cant be a bad thing to just talk about it amongst others with the same interests.
Its also interesting to note the responses from people from the blue camp as most of my mates arnt brand loyal and dont understand the weight of switching camps :|
No one needs to post if they dont want to, just a discussion thread and nothing more

[Shonky.]

if you are affraid of going too fast, just get another Xr6

or you can get an SS for at or just under $40k

or a GS for at or just under $50k for a demo

[Rodge]

Fair enough mate and I didn't mean to be short with you but you really are a bit snookered. At times I've seen GS's for the mid $40K range on car sales and while its fair to say you're probably buying more engine that what you need its a car you can grow with if you catch my drift.

I understand your dilema and the changing brands thing is something i could only do if I was completly snookered, as you can see from my sig i've had a few of them now and my only experience from the dark side was a real shocker. Honeslty mate don't hold your breath for a naturally aspirated V8 powered Ford this side of the 2014 model update, if at all. Mustang is schduled for late 2014 early 2015, that might be another choice down the track. Your choice is XR6T, SC GS or Holden SS, that's it mate. Take each for a good drive, shorten the list down to two and then if you still can't decide toss a coin up in the air and catch and cover it with your other hand. Sit there for a minute with the coin covered and trust me on this, you'll then know whether you really want heads or tails.

[buggerlugs]

I know it's not a V8 but what about the F6 ? Are they still making them ?

[Polyal]

And the demise of the XR8 (or base v8 which is a harder case to sell..i dont rte it) has nothing to do with a poxy 5.4 base now does it. Miami is not a good engine for the xr8 no matter how good it is. The boss290 over powreted the ss yet the gmh still sold its pants off, a supercharged xr8 will not help and the op makes some very valid points that are all discussed in that large xr8 thread.

Personally while i have a connection with the i6 i kind of wish it would die off. No one really cares about it, eb4 is perfect, tdi is in vogue and gives proven results and the v8 reflects the power choice.

I have never seen a mummy driving round in a gs, plenty of families with ss's though. We laugh at AFM et al but it helps get the deal done.

[jpd80]

And why does Holden have SS Commodores at $40,990 drive away?

Because buyers are very scarce on the ground, a lot of buyers are on their second VE and waiting for VF
The next six or eight months are going to be torture for team red as buyers hold off for the new model.

Buying a VE SS now would be like buying a VZ SS just a few months before the VE arrived in 2006.

I feel your pain mate, ford has chased fleet buyers for years invested lots of cash in vehicles to entice
them to buy Ford but it seems those people don't want falcons unless they are heavily discounted.
It now sounds like Bob Graziano is now more open to attracting retail buyers back to Falcon,
I hope that means that he will consider more custom, personal vehicles like (gasp) a V8....

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

I know it's not a V8 but what about the F6 ? Are they still making them ?

if he's scared of the 5.0 the F6 (which is still being made) is probably a bad choice

[SumoDog68]

What is more unfortunate is that SS is available as a wagon which leaves dog owners no choice - (Terry is not an SS competitor) .

[BaraFGXR6]

Originally Posted by shonkymofo

if he's scared of the 5.0 the F6 (which is still being made) is probably a bad choice

It has nothing to do with being scared of the power. Being scared of power only comes when riding a litre bike. Thats when you need your balls wound on tight.

As Polyal pointed out, i have other reasons for wanting an n/a application.

To redress, the 5.0 is a good car. It has a great engine. Its just overkill for what i want while an XR6 dosnt exactly excite like it used to.

Why make the thread? I know there are a few people from ford who frequent these forums. They may not be in charge of the line up, but if no one ever speaks out about a problem then no one will ever hear about. It sucks to be a Ford fan and be "forced" (mind the pun) into buying a GS or settling for an 6t.

edit for spelling

[TMC]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

What is more unfortunate is that SS is available as a wagon which leaves dog owners no choice - (Terry is not an SS competitor) .

It would be with a V8.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by TMC

It would be with a V8.

Even in cornering ability ?
SUVs and station wagons are different propositions :-)

[The Yeti]

I drove an SS a few weeks ago and was VERY impressed both with performance and level of finish. Take a look I think you'll agree with me that ford have a lot to learn.

They are a well appointed well finished car