Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2014, 11:24 AM   #1
Boza
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Boza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Victoria, The no fun state
Posts: 1,668
Default wraps and rego

Hey guys just wanna know what the legalities of wrapping a vehicle are.

Here's the story got a bloke at work who's an avid four wheel driver. He was around high country/Mansfield area on the weekend reckon's he pulled into Mansfield Sunday arvo on the way home and the cops were doing bretho/rwc checks school holidays skiing etc...

He got done for 175 bucks cause he's car is registered as a silver navara but he's got a camo wrap on it and the cop said he needed to call vicroads and say his car now is green brown and what ever other colour the wrap is.

He put the wrap on cause he's just knocked all the dent's and scratches out of the car and wrapped it to protect it and save money on touch upa.

So just wondering what the go is with telling your rego authorities what colour your car is if it's a multicolour wrap like some companies put on there car's

Boza is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 11:26 AM   #2
mac_man_luke
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
mac_man_luke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Australia
Posts: 2,149
Default Re: wraps and rego

interesting one.

Guess legally you would have to but i bet most don't.

If you don't tell them then the cops don't have an accurate description when checking regos etc
__________________
2015 Toyota Landcruiser 79 V8 SC
mac_man_luke is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 11:30 AM   #3
Boza
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Boza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Victoria, The no fun state
Posts: 1,668
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_man_luke View Post
interesting one.

Guess legally you would have to but i bet most don't.

If you don't tell them then the cops don't have an accurate description when checking regos etc
Thats what the cop said that if he's changed it to even red or black or whatever colour that if they check the rego and the car comes up silver but is another colour they might think stolen plates etc... and the cops actually need to work so might be of annoyance to them on that one
Boza is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 11:39 AM   #4
Silver Ghia
Moderator
Donating Member3
 
Silver Ghia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Foothills of the Macedon Ranges
Posts: 18,573
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: As Silver Ghia his contributions to the AU and BA technical areas have been of high quality and valuable to the member base. 
Default Re: wraps and rego

Registration details must be kept up to date with Vicroads.

Its something that people don't realise, or perhaps don't bother about these days when changing the colour. Same with changing the engine over.

Something we ensured many years ago, but people are pretty slack these days.
Silver Ghia is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 07-07-2014, 11:49 AM   #5
mcnews
Trev
 
mcnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Trev has owned several boosted fords and has really contributed a lot of info on them. His posts in the bike section are also very helpful. I think he should be recognised as a technical contributor. 
Default Re: wraps and rego

In VIC they can dream up anything to do you for. A famale friend of mine got pulled 'randomly' in Healesville and got done for worn handgrips, defected.... They have no grip on them from new and were not worn..... Clowns.
__________________
Trev
(FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension)
mcnews is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 11:54 AM   #6
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,403
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnews View Post
In VIC they can dream up anything to do you for. A famale friend of mine got pulled 'randomly' in Healesville and got done for worn handgrips, defected.... They have no grip on them from new and were not worn..... Clowns.
Or the old obstruction of view for the air freshner hanging off the rear vision mirror combined with the empty washer bottle trick.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 07-07-2014, 12:55 PM   #7
jmack
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 706
Default Re: wraps and rego

Oxygen theifs.Be a shame if they had to get off their### and do some real policing like catching murderers rapists etc but I guess these people dont bother paying fines
jmack is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 01:48 PM   #8
xisled
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,338
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack View Post
Oxygen theifs.Be a shame if they had to get off their### and do some real policing like catching murderers rapists etc but I guess these people dont bother paying fines
Love this statement. Just shows you have no idea.

But it can all come back to what you are saying, just for example, this car that has been painted or wrapped is involved in a violent crime such as rape or murder. Someone gets a rego, but is unsure of the exact rego.

Police do a rego search and the car comes back as a silver car instead of a Camo colour car. The police officer asks the witness what colour was the car, the witness says camo. Police, miss the vital clue because the colour of the car is changed without notify Vic roads.

Murder or rapist is not caught because of this.

So you may see it not important and you may see this as a huge waste of resources, but sometimes even the smallest thing is important.

Plus Highway patrol officers and such do not work on murder cases usually.
xisled is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 02:01 PM   #9
mcnews
Trev
 
mcnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Trev has owned several boosted fords and has really contributed a lot of info on them. His posts in the bike section are also very helpful. I think he should be recognised as a technical contributor. 
Default Re: wraps and rego

Yet another mindless drone succumbing to the all power to the authority pathetic mentality
__________________
Trev
(FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension)
mcnews is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 03:22 PM   #10
Trevor 57
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Trevor 57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
Default Re: wraps and rego

of course we don't need Police, they are a waste of time!!!


Just remember that the next time you phone for their help
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
Trevor 57 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 07-07-2014, 04:21 PM   #11
jmack
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 706
Default Re: wraps and rego

yes i know hiway patrol dont do murder cases etc as most of them would be to lazy get from behind the wheel to fine someone.as for the stolen no plate scenario you would hope if said rego was assigned to the same model vehicle that that they would visit said owner to investigate further, cause as anybody who has had dealings with the law knows, eyewitness accounts arent always reliable.do i think police are a waste of time.well todays version yes,after having a few occasions where they couldnt even bothered turning up but there to fine you when you dont have a seat belt on (which effect no one but yourself).they have become a source of revenue for the pollies.why.in this case why couldnt they have made the person aware and given them a number of days to rectify the prob ,no its the fine which matters,got to make those numbers up each week.
jmack is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 07-07-2014, 05:19 PM   #12
mcnews
Trev
 
mcnews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Was Perth, now country Vic
Posts: 8,017
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Trev has owned several boosted fords and has really contributed a lot of info on them. His posts in the bike section are also very helpful. I think he should be recognised as a technical contributor. 
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor 57 View Post
of course we don't need Police, they are a waste of time!!!


Just remember that the next time you phone for their help
And how that relate to the trivial crap and harassment being dealt out by highway coppers now then...?

Bit of perspective thanks.

Or you want Campbell Newman in charge across the country...
__________________
Trev
(FPV FG II GT-E thus the fully loaded burger with the lot as standard +Alpine/Dynamat fitout - 2 of only 4 ever made GT-E factory 9" rear rims - Michelin Pilot Supersports - Shockworks Suspension)
mcnews is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 07-07-2014, 05:41 PM   #13
zilo
BANNED
 
zilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: wraps and rego

Let's not confuse highway tax collectors with real police.

The poor bastards are under the pump to keep their jobs with quotas.

If it meant my family eats for another day I would do it too...(and so would many in this thread eh boys?)....
zilo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 06:26 PM   #14
GasoLane
Former BTIKD
Donating Member2
 
GasoLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
Default Re: wraps and rego

Why not wrap it in clear ?

And please don't turn this into another Police bashing thread they don't end well.
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
GasoLane is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 07-07-2014, 09:01 PM   #15
danzvtil
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
danzvtil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,613
Default Re: wraps and rego

What crap, wrap is temporary, I know of plenty of company vehicles with varying degrees of vinyl sign wrapping, they don't need to advise motor reg.
Sounds like mr plod(or the law) is splitting hairs.
__________________
____________________

2019 LDV G10
2009 Mitsubishi Express-GONE
2011 Honda Jazz
____________________
danzvtil is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 07-07-2014, 10:06 PM   #16
GCRXR6
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
GCRXR6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Capricornia
Posts: 830
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasOLane View Post
Why not wrap it in clear ?

And please don't turn this into another Police bashing thread they don't end well.
That's exactly what this thread is... another police bashing thread.

Unbelievable...fools that have no idea what crap Police Officers go through.
__________________
Ya don't slow down as you get older ... you just enjoy taking longer to do it ... better!
GCRXR6 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 08-07-2014, 06:47 AM   #17
Trevor 57
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Trevor 57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,752
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by GCRXR6 View Post
Unbelievable...fools that have no idea what crap Police Officers go through.
my father was a policeman for 39 years, it is not pretty what they have to do and deal with as part of their everyday working life

Some should walk in their shoes
__________________
I reserve the right to arm bears
Trevor 57 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 08-07-2014, 08:52 AM   #18
iCat
doof doof doof doof
 
iCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SE Melbourne
Posts: 611
Default Re: wraps and rego

OP, makes total sense, the car is now a different color. But it's not something you'd immediately think of reporting since, as it has been pointed out, it's a temporary change. however yes, in the event of an accident, altercation or whatever, the most likely description is going to involve the color of the vehicle, so therefore any change to it has to be reported correctly to authorities.
__________________
iCat is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 09:13 AM   #19
JC
Miami Pilot
Donating Member2
 
JC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,703
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Writing tech articles 
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boza View Post
Hey guys just wanna know what the legalities of wrapping a vehicle are.

Here's the story got a bloke at work who's an avid four wheel driver. He was around high country/Mansfield area on the weekend reckon's he pulled into Mansfield Sunday arvo on the way home and the cops were doing bretho/rwc checks school holidays skiing etc...

He got done for 175 bucks cause he's car is registered as a silver navara but he's got a camo wrap on it and the cop said he needed to call vicroads and say his car now is green brown and what ever other colour the wrap is.

He put the wrap on cause he's just knocked all the dent's and scratches out of the car and wrapped it to protect it and save money on touch upa.

So just wondering what the go is with telling your rego authorities what colour your car is if it's a multicolour wrap like some companies put on there car's
Most rego authorities have "Colour 1" and Colour2" as available options, so you could probably only list the green and brown. If the camo wrap was done on ONLY the bonnet, roof and boot, then he may have got away with keeping the major colour as silver. but as soon as the side panels change colour, you need to tell rego.

When I was 19, I had a tan Dato 1600, that I painted up similar to the skylines in the ATCC at the time - red front, white middle, blue rear - ACT rego listed it as blue/red since that's the colours people would see mostly.
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Hammer: FG GTE | 376rwkw | 1/4 mile 11.793 @ 119.75mph 1.733 60' (4408lb)
1 of 60 FG MK1 335 GTEs (1 of 118 FG Mk 1 & 2 335 GTEs).
Mods: Tune, HSD/ShockWorks, black GT335 19” staggered replicas with 245 & 275/35/19 Michelin Pilot sport 5s

Daily: BF2 Fairmont Ghia I6 ZF, machine face GT335 19” staggered Replicas with 245s and 275s, Bilsteins & Kings

FPV 335 build stats: <click here>

Ford Performance Club ACT
JC is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 09:38 AM   #20
superpursuit83
KITTY Crew Member
 
superpursuit83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 5,267
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by danzvtil View Post
What crap, wrap is temporary, I know of plenty of company vehicles with varying degrees of vinyl sign wrapping, they don't need to advise motor reg.
Sounds like mr plod(or the law) is splitting hairs.
That's what I am thinking. DO I need to call Vehicle Licencing and tell them my white vehicles are actually red, white and black?
__________________
FOR SALE

BAII Super Pursuit 0083

Awsome power by XTREME FORD TUNING 500rwkw New ALLOY Block

Awesome exhaust by THE EXHAUST CENTRE MIDLAND


Awesome Kenne Bell Supercharger setup by AGRO! and Bluepower Racing Developments

Now with full DOT approval and Permitted for road use
superpursuit83 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 09:39 AM   #21
Gothefalcon
FAWD - No Boundaries
Donating Member3
 
Gothefalcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 8,129
Community Builder: In recognition of those who have helped build the AFF community. - Issue reason: He takes long trips in his AWD Falcon & where ever he goes he sets out to meet forum members at various destinations. He does this without expectation of any sort. I have had the pleasure of spending time with Dhru on two of his separate trips and his gre Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The excellent write ups in your BF AWD Falcon Wagon thread 
Default Re: wraps and rego

In a situation like the OP mentioned... it would be better if the Police issued the driver with a warning, instructed them to either take the wrap off or change the details with the rego authorities and asked them to present the car at a police station to be re-checked within a certain time period (a week maybe??)

They'd have the driver's and cars details, so if nothing changes within the set period... then issue a fine !

I understand that they Boys out on the beat are just doing what they're told to do... so it's more the law makers who deserve "public questioning" and the ones who instruct the Police on how to apply/enforce the law.

Way too many "1 strike and your out" fines issued these days !

Dhru
__________________
View My Build thread


22 DJR Shell V-Power Mustang Eskymobile (my first EV)
07 BF2 AWD Falcon Wagon (Daily driver)
04 BA Falcon 1Tonner Ute (New Project)
03 BA Falcon Wagon (Spare)
98 NL Fairlane Ghia V8 (Weekend cruiser)
70 VG paddock racer (Cain it til it breaks.. fix it.. Cain it all over again !)
Gothefalcon is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 08-07-2014, 09:47 AM   #22
GasoLane
Former BTIKD
Donating Member2
 
GasoLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
Default Re: wraps and rego

But what we don't know is the conversation between the 4wd driver and mr plod.

Like a friend of mine once said "I get on much better with the Police when I get pulled over and don't jump out of the Truck and say "What the **** to you ****s want ?"
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
GasoLane is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 08-07-2014, 09:55 AM   #23
JC
Miami Pilot
Donating Member2
 
JC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,703
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Writing tech articles 
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by superpursuit83 View Post
That's what I am thinking. DO I need to call Vehicle Licencing and tell them my white vehicles are actually red, white and black?
Post a picture and let's see. If it has equal amounts of black and red and white, then yes. If the black and red is a minor part, like advertising colours, then the white should suffice. If you can't make the judgement yourself, then take it to your local rego place and ask them.....
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The Hammer: FG GTE | 376rwkw | 1/4 mile 11.793 @ 119.75mph 1.733 60' (4408lb)
1 of 60 FG MK1 335 GTEs (1 of 118 FG Mk 1 & 2 335 GTEs).
Mods: Tune, HSD/ShockWorks, black GT335 19” staggered replicas with 245 & 275/35/19 Michelin Pilot sport 5s

Daily: BF2 Fairmont Ghia I6 ZF, machine face GT335 19” staggered Replicas with 245s and 275s, Bilsteins & Kings

FPV 335 build stats: <click here>

Ford Performance Club ACT
JC is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 10:13 AM   #24
aussiblue
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
Donating Member3
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,360
Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: Has been floating around the oze tech section for a long time and is always there to give advice when people have an issue. 
Default Re: wraps and rego

There is a form to be completed in WA. This one: http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/media...icleColour.pdf Things have improved; a change of colour used to be considered a mod and you used to have to go over the pits again.
__________________
regards Blue
aussiblue is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 01:02 PM   #25
LTDHO
The one and only
 
LTDHO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Carrum Downs, Victoria
Posts: 9,053
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevor 57 View Post
of course we don't need Police, they are a waste of time!!!


Just remember that the next time you phone for their help
Is there a legal alternative?

Regarding OP.
Change colour advise VicRoads. Simple.

If you re wrap your car, advise VicRoads.

I really do not see an issue here.
__________________
1992 DC LTDHO 360rwkw built by me
Tuned by CVE Performance
Going of the rails on a crazy train
Other cars include Dynamic ED Sprint, Dynamic DL LTD, Sparkling Burgundy DL LTD, Yellow, Red & Blue XB sedan & Black XB Coupe
LTDHO is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 02:10 PM   #26
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
Default Re: wraps and rego

I recon if the "offender" rectified the situation with VIC roads then wrote a letter stating they were unaware of the law and were very apologetic it would get reversed.

Cops around Mansfield are probably some of the toughest around, but to get a ticket for an offence like this would IMO normally depend on the drivers attitude..
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 08:05 PM   #27
GCRXR6
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
GCRXR6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Capricornia
Posts: 830
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by superpursuit83 View Post
That's what I am thinking. DO I need to call Vehicle Licencing and tell them my white vehicles are actually red, white and black?
Yes ... that is what is required.
__________________
Ya don't slow down as you get older ... you just enjoy taking longer to do it ... better!
GCRXR6 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 08:22 PM   #28
MITCHAY
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,431
Default Re: wraps and rego

The cop told him exactly what he needs to do, call them. No inspection needed. It wouldn't be the first time someone has wrapped their car so I'm sure they know exactly what to do.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...ifications.htm

Rule of thumb, if it's listed on your rego paper then you have to update it with the authorities when it changes.

Last edited by MITCHAY; 08-07-2014 at 08:28 PM.
MITCHAY is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 08-07-2014, 08:26 PM   #29
ROOSTA
DFDFDF
 
ROOSTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Albury-Wodonga
Posts: 2,384
Default Re: wraps and rego

When i resprayed my car a different colour, i enquired with vic roads, got them to change the vehicle colour from silver to blue and away i went.. Took all of about 30 mins.. No charge, no hassle so why not do it?
ROOSTA is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 08-07-2014, 08:41 PM   #30
zilo
BANNED
 
zilo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,886
Default Re: wraps and rego

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROOSTA View Post
When i resprayed my car a different colour, i enquired with vic roads, got them to change the vehicle colour from silver to blue and away i went.. Took all of about 30 mins.. No charge, no hassle so why not do it?

you're kidding me? No hassle?

you enjoy the absolutely mind numbing 30 minute experience of attending a Vic roads office, staffed by what seems a disproportionate majority of public servants who have their own unique inflated moronic sense of superiority ?

Not this little black duck.
zilo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 04:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL