Hurricane V8 Makes A Comeback

[McobraR]

taken from fordforums.com


Hurricane Watch

Ford hopes high-performance V-8 blows away rivals

Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

The Hurricane is back.

A year after Ford Motor Co. killed its planned Hemi-fighting V-8 to the dismay of horsepower junkies, Ford Americas group chief Mark Fields has put the high-performance engine back in the company’s product pipeline, according to sources familiar with the project.

Fields revived the engine three months ago as part of a new restructuring plan for the automaker. The decision offers a telling insight into how serious Fields is about shaking things up at Ford, underscoring his repeated assertions that nothing is off the table when it comes to reshaping the automaker’s troubled North American auto operations, which lost $1.6 billion last year.

Ford nixed the Hurricane project because of concerns about development costs and rising gasoline prices. Now, Fields has decided that maintaining Ford’s leadership in the pickup truck market against mounting challenges from rivals General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG’s Chrysler Group trumps those concerns.

Many analysts were dismayed by Ford’s decision to halt development of the Hurricane, which will likely get a new name before hitting the market.

“It was a dumb program to kill,” said Jim Hall, an analyst with AutoPacific in Southfield. Hall said Ford got spooked by soaring fuel prices last spring, which seemed to spell bad news for thirsty high-horsepower engines. However, he said long-term analysis shows that, while demand for big engines may ebb and flow as a result of gasoline prices or other factors, it remains steady over time.

Erich Merkle, a brand analyst with IRN Inc. in Grand Rapids, is not surprised Ford decided to revive the Hurricane.

“They’ve got to do something from a powertrain perspective if they’re going to hold on to the F-series’ lead,” he said, noting that both GM and Chrysler have more powerful engines on the market, particularly in their trucks and sport utilities.

“Ford has nothing,” Merkle said. “Without those bigger options, they are going to have a hard time competing.”

Ford does have some big engines, but none that can compete with the 425-horsepower 6.1-liter Hemi or the 403-horsepower Vortec that will equip the 2007 Cadillac Escalade SUV. With its 300-horsepower Triton, Ford’s2007 Lincoln Navigator will have a hard time keeping up with the Escalade.

When it comes to engines, few have captured the public’s imagination like Chrysler’s Hemi.

The Hemi’s roots go back to the 1950s, but the vaunted powerhouse disappeared from production cars in 1974, a victim of new government fuel economy requirements. Chrysler reintroduced a new Hemiin the 2003 Dodge Ram Heavy Duty pickup.

Ford wants theHurricane to more than a match these engines and help ensure the automaker stays on top of the hotly-contested truck segment. As Chrysler has shown with Hemi, however, automakers also can command a price premium for high-performance powertrains. That means the Hurricane could help Ford’s bottom line.

Merkle said Ford’s Cleveland casting plant has received orders for a new 6.2-liter engine block, with work to begin next year.

“We believe that would be the Hurricane,” he said.

However, the Hurricane is not likely to make landfall before 2008. It will probably debut in Ford’s F-series pickups. A team has visited Ford’s Dearborn Truck factory, where F-150s are made, to assess what changes will be needed to accommodate the new engine on the line there.

But sources say the Hurricane also will be used in other platforms.

While Ford’s engine may not incorporate the sort of cylinder deactivation system found in the Hemi and Vortec, sources say it will offer similar fuel economy.

Other approaches that could be used to realize these gains include using the sort of multi-valve systems found on some German engines.

Whatever method Ford employs, the emphasis will remain on horsepower.



So what do you guys think? hopefully it doesn't get cancelled again.
6.2L's of V8, here we come!!!!!!!

[Polyal]

interesting...world wide fords V8's lack punch unless a s/cer is put on. And not everyone can afford having a s/cer, and it will dilute the GT's (american version) aura.

Ford Oz needs something desperately...and hopefully not another bloody truck engine!!!!!!

EDIT: what engines are those new Aston V8's running? or jag? There the engines we should have! : :jab:

Stupid Ford oz....yuo just cant compete with an engine that was designed for a truck..thats the luxury GM has over Ford at the moment.

im not bagging BOSS engines by the way, but there is better out there!

[Falcon Coupe]

I was wondering if this would be a pushrod engine, this is all i could find.

At this point, it's not clear if Ford will stay with an overhead-cam multi-valve architecture, or follow GM and Chrysler down the pushrod 2-valve path. Either way, expect the new engine to utilize a significantly larger bore and shorter stroke than the current 5.4L Triton (pictured).

While the primary application for the Hurricane is Ford's full-size truck lineup, it would be surprising if it didn't make it into the Mustang as well, as we can expect the Camaro and Challenger to both show up packing significantly more than the GT's current rating of 300 HP.

Expect to see the new engine sometime around 2008.

Source: The Detroit News

[chevypower]

it's probably been redesigned for 85-100% ethanol... hopefully

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Ford Oz needs something desperately...and hopefully not another bloody truck engine!!!!!!

EDIT: what engines are those new Aston V8's running? or jag? There the engines we should have! : :jab:

Stupid Ford oz....yuo just cant compete with an engine that was designed for a truck..thats the luxury GM has over Ford at the moment.

im not bagging BOSS engines by the way, but there is better out there!

The only hi-po engine ford had back then was the mustang Cobra R engine, but since the development of it was over, ford had to build their own engine, so wallah, we have the BOSS. There really isn't much bad about the boss though, yes its heavy, but thats due to the cast iron block.

As for this new V8, as long as it loves a good rev, and has the bottom end oomph you want, then i dont kno why ford oz shouldnt get it... truck engine or not. You do kno the LS2 engines in the holdens are basically truck engines also.

[Polyal]

I would have a HSV LS2 over a BOSS anyday (strickly engine speaking anyway). I drove a VZ clubby not long ago and it poo's on a BOSS in just about every manner. Ok BOSS's sound good, but you can rev a LS2, and it has the low down go aswell. Talking about stock here aswell, I dont care about aftermarket stuff, anyone can throw $$ at an engine.

A bit off topic sorry, but aleast GM try and realise that having good V8's is a worth while cause, espically when its used all around the world.

Could of, would of, whatever, Ford just hasn't done anything.

hopefully they will pull there finger out.

[FordFan86]

Originally Posted by Article

It will probably debut in Ford’s F-series pickups.

And from there, work its way into Eseries and other ford sedans.
Hahahaha

[Bossxr8]

Thats good news. Hopefully it will find its way into Falcon eventually. It would be good to outcube Holden. 6 litres are for girls. LOL.

[Supa R00]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I would have a HSV LS2 over a BOSS anyday (strickly engine speaking anyway). I drove a VZ clubby not long ago and it poo's on a BOSS in just about every manner. Ok BOSS's sound good, but you can rev a LS2, and it has the low down go aswell. Talking about stock here aswell, I dont care about aftermarket stuff, anyone can throw $$ at an engine.

But have you driven a boss? sheesh ive driven a GTP and they aint no slouch! sure they rev abit more the LS2's but ford has a fine motor imho here and anythings better than struggling with the old windsor!

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Supa R00

But have you driven a boss? sheesh ive driven a GTP and they aint no slouch! sure they rev abit more the LS2's but ford has a fine motor imho here and anythings better than struggling with the old windsor!

I haven't driven a 5.6 windsor, but the others struggle yes.

Yeah driven plenty of BOSS'(260 and 290), I drove the LS2 back to back for a fair while hence my statement.

BOSS' are no sloth...but you want to be able to rev a "performance" engine, not have it running out of breath too quickly.

[Donut King]

Boss has plenty of revs, it's the delivery that lets it down, if it started pulling at 2000 like it does at 3500-4000 then nobody would be whinging that it 'only' revs to 6k

That said i recently jumped in an xr8 which had passed the 10,000k mark and it was a much better car than when i drove it when it was still in the 5,000k region

[XA-Coupe]

Hopefully it is more than just a name and a few abstract ideas.
I DGAF if it's OHC or 'just' OHV.. the LS and Hemi series engines show that they are far from dead. Dnosaurs or not they produce the goods.
Note I am not touching the Boss subject !!

[Polyal]

Look we should be happy that Ford is doing something atlast, let hope its not a half-ar.sed effort.

Its tough times at the moment, but you wont get sales by making mediocre products like half the stuff they are pushing now.

[FPV]

Originally Posted by Polyal

interesting...world wide fords V8's lack punch unless a s/cer is put on. And not everyone can afford having a s/cer, and it will dilute the GT's (american version) aura.

Ford Oz needs something desperately...and hopefully not another bloody truck engine!!!!!!

EDIT: what engines are those new Aston V8's running? or jag? There the engines we should have! : :jab:

Stupid Ford oz....yuo just cant compete with an engine that was designed for a truck..thats the luxury GM has over Ford at the moment.

im not bagging BOSS engines by the way, but there is better out there!

You will find the aston and jag v8 engines underpowered as well. There engine capacities are 4.3l and 4.2l respectfully. The only current v8 in the aston range that i know of is in the vantage and that only produces 283kws. Jaguar needs a supercharger on there 4.2 to get 298kws. I think the Boss is a great engine, im happy to see progress to 6.2l if they keep there overhead camshafts going, i dont see them going back now that most of there engines have OHC. Wasnt the prior Hurricane project OHC? Wont they just be reviving that instead of starting all over again? Aston martin and Jaguar both need new engines by the looks of it, they are underpowered compared to there rivals. The only engine that has a better output then its rivals is the Ford GT with the........you guessed it, derivative of the 5.4l v8.

[Polyal]

Exactly...even more reason for Ford to do something globally instead of the bandaid jobs they usually do.

Will be interesting to see the outcome.

But aother thing to remember is that a good V8 isn't all about its 0-100 time, personally id rather a V8 that you can play with, rev right out and hear it sing, even if it meant a few tenths off your times, if you are serious about power you most certainly will go aftermarket anyway.

EDIT: the sooner the falcon platform, albiet updated, becomes global the better for all of Ford if you ask me.

[McobraR]

I remember ages ago b4 the hurricane was cancelled was that the bore and stroke will allow for a wide range of capacities. Meaning that the hurricane should be an oversquare type design.

[Iphido]

So hurricane won't arrive until well into Orion, if it even fits it. Thats if they can accelerate it. It was a stupid project to kill. Im guessing its going to involve diffrent bore/stroke to the tritons.

The wider bore spacing means smaller versions would also be good for jaguar and the mustang. Jaguar could go 4.4 and Aston 4.8..

But by then the V8 world would have moved on with VCT UHC engines with displacement on demand etc all being standard. The 6.2 I belive is still a cast iron block.

What ford need is a square bore/stroke motor of ~6.0L capacity thats compact enough to fit VCT DOHC under a sedans bonnet line.

Im actually thinking they should have developed the 6.8 V10 with a smaller deck height to 6.0L and developed DOHC heads for it.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by Iphido

Im actually thinking they should have developed the 6.8 V10 with a smaller deck height to 6.0L and developed DOHC heads for it.

Yeah wouldve been nice for GTHO... hang on ive seen a falc with a bigger bulge than normal....

/stir

[mik]

it would be good to see a level playing field 5.4L vs 6.0L 1855kg falcon vs 1702kg r8, i would be stickin with the boss, looking at the engine block it looks very robust and bore spacing looks like it could take a decent over bore, and im betting a few years down the track, the boss motors will still be going hard

[Iphido]

The idea behind the shorter deck height V10 is that it would fit in the long falcon engine bay with out a bulge. With ~6.0L the SOHC version would be mighty fine for the enhanced base range and the DOHC (or even just worked VCT SOHC) would make a mighty fine FPV range. With a shorter stroke it would have been happier with a red line at 6500+.. Enough to make it LS2 competitive.

LTD would have also have been a hell of alot sexier if it was avalible with a 6.0L V10. FPV wouldn't have to worry about the little F6 beating up its top model. Not to mention it would have spiced Fords truck line up in the US no end, and of course could have seen duty in the Mustang and the GT40.

Ford in the US have had a rough times with engines. Their I4, V6 and V8 engines have generally fallen behind competitors.

If the falcon was laboured with the 3.0 or 3.5 duratec V6 it would have died in the BA era. Its one of the benifits of having a unique platform, the US can't bugger it up that much.

[McobraR]

Yes, but a 7.75L V10 derivative of the hurricane will sound more intruging...
In the end, i highly doubt we'l see a V10 falcon. Its just too much for a sedan. A V8 is more than enough, and if Ford Oz can ever get a hold of this powerplant and fit it in the Orion, then we'll have a competitor to the LS2. But by the time it comes out, GM will most likely have a new V8. Then we'll just have a re-run of what just happened recently, with holden getting a bigger, more powerful engine.

[FPV]

In financial strife or not, GM still find a way to develop even more powerful V8's. Latest rumour is an ls9 with a smaller capacity to the ls7 but supercharged to produce 600HP (448kw) in a corvette SS. Ford only have a 475hp (354kw) supercharged 5.4l v8 when the GT production is wrapped up this year. FPV should strive to improve the Boss v8 naturally aspirated first, then bolt on a supercharger for top range models. The Hurricane is still a long time away, so Boss v8 will fly the Ford flag until then.

Here is an article about the rumoured Corvette SS:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=108398

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by mik

it would be good to see a level playing field 5.4L vs 6.0L 1855kg falcon vs 1702kg r8

Lets not forget that VE has been eating Mc Donalds :baby bott

Even with a power up on the LS2 (and they will HAVE to bust the 300kw "cap" to do it), a 18-1900kg HSV will be more level with current BA/BF performance.

Daniel.

[crYnOid]

here's is my little Holden VE V8 prediction.

L92 - 6.2L 375hp Displacement on Demand etc, Holden motor.
LS3 - 6.2L 450hp, HSV motor
LS9 - 600hp LS3 + supercharger, as pointed out by FPV.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by FPV

You will find the aston and jag v8 engines underpowered as well. There engine capacities are 4.3l and 4.2l respectfully. The only current v8 in the aston range that i know of is in the vantage and that only produces 283kws. Jaguar needs a supercharger on there 4.2 to get 298kws.

They don't "need" a supercharger to get 298kW. It's just a smarter way to go about it then making a 298kW n/a 4.2 that revs to a zillion rpm, drinks much petrol and isn't reliable in any way, shape or form. And costs alot more.

The 284kW Aston 4.3 is a prime example. It's got almost the same power and cost alot more money to develop and sits in a more expensive car.

[Iphido]

The problem is ford V8's are too much (weight and size) and not enough (outright power). Fords modular engines were never made to fight a power war and certainly not one in sedans or small sports cars.

There is no N/A improvement for the BOSS engines. They just can't get anymore power out of it and still meet emissions levels.

It has to be one of the very few engines on the market that doesn't have some sort of VCT anywhere on the engine. This limits development.

When is someone going to start a side project that provides the Hot fords we want..

Something you guys forget is that the I6 is also being upgraded. Quite a bit. Im not sure what its going to get but direct injection, alloy internals and the like are definately on the cards. I wouldn't be suprised if the new I6 punched out ~220-230Kw, returned less than 9.5L/100km on the combined and weighed a good lot less than it does now. Which would place the basic turbo somewhere in the 300Kw region with a FPV above 300kw.

The current 5.4L SOHC doesn't convincingly beat the basic six cylinder now despite ~30% higher fuel consumption and higher CG. I honestly belive the 6.2L hurricane would proberly struggle to keep up with the revised 4.0L I6. And the turbo will again blow it away in outright speed and drivability and consumption.

I actually think getting rid of the V8 is entirely possible.

-the 5.4 (and the 6.2) will have great problems passing future crash and pedestrian safety laws
-the 5.4 (and 6.2?) have limited development outside of supercharging
-the high consumption of 5.4 and 6.2 will turn more and more customers away
-the aussie I6 will still at the end of the day be the choice powerplant (excluding lack of V8 burble) But that will be irrelivant anyway with new emission and noise laws which will reduce V8 burble to V8 put put.. The I6 could end up sounding better.

I wouldn't be suprised if with Orion Ford announces dropping the V8 in the XT, Futura, Fairmont, Fairmont Ghia, and essentially has it just for the (SWB) LTD and XR8. Which will proberly be delayed until Hurricane comes on line sometime mid/late 2008.

The optional engine will become the Turbo six..

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Iphido

The problem is ford V8's are too much (weight and size) and not enough (outright power). Fords modular engines were never made to fight a power war and certainly not one in sedans or small sports cars.

Well you have to remember that the 5.4 originally pushed less than 200kw in their early days. With Ford Pushing 290kw now, your saying that its underpowered? especially from just 5.4L? Yes its heavy, but thats just due to the block. In the end, its not that the BOSS wasn't made for a power war, it was just too late to get into a falcon. If it was released about the same time as the LS1 , then i dont think we'd be saying '"it doesnt have enough outright power". ИИИ yes, compared to the LS2 right now, it is gonna have a hard time keeping up... unless Ford oz proves me wrong.

Originally Posted by Iphido

I honestly belive the 6.2L hurricane would proberly struggle to keep up with the revised 4.0L I6. And the turbo will again blow it away in outright speed and drivability and consumption..

Well from the article, Ford is going to focus on horsepower, so i'd say it'l be close to the LS2 and Hemi's 400-425hp output. I remember in one of the forums how an aftermarket shop can turn ur I6 into a 240kw/450nm monster..all N/A. I'd say thats about the max you can get for the I6. I dont think that the orion engine will have that power anyway, so i highly doubt a 200kw I6 will match the performance of a 290+ V8

Originally Posted by Iphido

-the high consumption of 5.4 and 6.2 will turn more and more customers away

With the hurricane, ford's gonna try and match the fuel consumption of its competitors, so it might actually drink abit less than the BOSS. All in all, Holden are selling HEAPS more V8's because the market knows they have the better V8 (they showed a survey comparing how many V8's were sold between holden and ford, and the numbers for ford were pretty embarassing), clearly the fuel hike isnt stopping much people from buying holden's V8, so if Ford makes a better V8, then maybe those numbers may tip slightly more in ford's favour. Yeh i kno, the reason we have less V8s being sold is ИИИ of the turbo, but still, a good V8 will attract customers, maybe even from the dark side

[Iphido]

Aftermarket have already seen over 270Kw n/a from the I6. Thats just tweaking existing components with a limited aftermarket development budget.

Honda, Toyota and Nissan get more than 220Kw from 3.5L 6 cylinders with less technology and less capacity (~.5 L) than the falcon I6. They have things like SOHC, and only single cam VCT. The potential is there and it can meet EURO IV emission targets while doing it (unlike most (all?) Ford V8s)

And there will be more pressure for Ford to use it, as it comes under fire from 210Kw toyota camrys, 220Kw Legends, 220Kw Maximas (and possibly G35 skylines) and 194 Kw Hyundias.

The 190Kw I6 already matches the performance of a 230Kw V8. The XR6 Turbo does and will hassle a 290Kw FPV. The F6 is the gun of the Ford range.

Ford has already lost so many non V8 core areas:
-Ford sells almost no V8 LWB cars because it sells almost no LWB cars (and will can LWB compared to the ~50,000 V8's it exports every year!)
-Ford sells almost no XT V8's (compared to Holdens SV8's)
-Ford sells almost no Fairmont Ghia V8's. (compared to Calais V8's)

All this points too Ford comming under pressure to justify the V8 outside of the XR8 and FPV range.

Hurricane also would have to address the problem of fitting in a sedan engine bay, and frankly I don't see them doing that, that would cost more, and more time for a very small market. Its a engine for the US truck range. It proberly won't be compatable with DOHC heads.. We will most likely be stuck with the 5.4 which as previously stated has no development future and would most likely be killed off by future emission changes.

2008 may be the year where we kiss goodbye to the wagon, the LWB Fairlane/LTD and to the optional V8.

[BLKFPV]

I drove a triton SOHC 2v 5.4L (F150) on Saturday with Eaton s/c and "supercooler" intercooler .... 650-700Nm easy ... the thing flew

the supercooler is like having a shot of NOS ... chilled air from the a/c system ... 30-45sec blast at WOT.... takes 2mins to recharge (environmentally friendly and doesn't require anything except using your a/c for awhile) ... I reckon we are in for a host of temporary max power features like this one

the original triton (as per F250 petrol) was good for about 500Nm .... also a good thing with a 4.1 diff

nothing the matter with where the BOSS came from and will be supercharged in the future IMVHO for sure (or atleast mine will be :.)



as for the humble hemi .... it is still the goods !!!! .... a must have !!!!

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Iphido

And there will be more pressure for Ford to use it, as it comes under fire from 210Kw toyota camrys, 220Kw Legends, 220Kw Maximas (and possibly G35 skylines) and 194 Kw Hyundias.

I agree, the 6 from other makes are getting power, but how about torque? i dont think the falcon needs to match those figures if its got heaps more torque. The only reason why a falc would lose in a straight line race would be due to weight, after all it is a large sedan.

Originally Posted by Iphido

Hurricane also would have to address the problem of fitting in a sedan engine bay, and frankly I don't see them doing that, that would cost more, and more time for a very small market. Its a engine for the US truck range. It proberly won't be compatable with DOHC heads.. We will most likely be stuck with the 5.4 which as previously stated has no development future and would most likely be killed off by future emission changes.

We dont know much about the design of the hurricane. The V8's in the holdens are basically truck engines, yet they fit in sedans easily. Have faith i say, I'm pretty sure Ford US knows that they have to comply with new emission laws, they wouldnt make a totally knew V8 if it only has a lifespan of a few years. They'l probably develop a future proof-type design... similar to their new 3.5 V6 Ford developed... "providing significant flexibility to incorporate additional engine technologies, such as hybrid capability, gasoline direct injection and direct-injection turbo charging". If we're lucky, maybe the hurricane will incorporate VCT.
As for the 5.4, word is that they're testing s/c versions, even if we dont get the hurricane, a s/c V8 will definitely sell by the bucketload, considering it'l be real easy and cheap to get more power.