Super Charger Or Turbo

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 09:04 AM

Super Charger Or Turbo

ok very soon i will be rebuilding my engine and i want to look into forced induction

which is the best way to go, TURBO OR SUPER CHARGER,

i dont want to start a fight, just want to no from experience what you guys think and recommend i should do,

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 11:26 AM

Depends on what you want out of your car.

All out power for street/strip/dyno?

Just for the street?

Please provide us with more info on your looking to do as each application differs depending on overall outcome.

But the argument has been done to death on this subject as you may already know.

pmpdau · 26-08-2009, 11:28 AM

Buddy im not being rude, but there is a search function for this kind of thing......this topic has brought up many many times.

There is no best way to go when deciding between these two options, its really about how much work and money you are willing to put into it. Supercharger is your easy bolt-on power option.

Turbo however requires alot of work to your engine to make sure it doesnt go BAM. For example cam work, porting etc etc. You will also need to look at your exhaust system.....the standard for forced induction is 3 inch.

But whether you actually listen is up to you, but I can guarantee if you slap on a charger and expect it to go fast you will be severely disappointed.

Price wise supercharger is the way to go

Well read above anyway Shav got there before me

:

Cheers
Chris

SLO AU XR8 · 26-08-2009, 11:34 AM

Maybe wait until you have your open licence. and can afford to get it Engineered. Given you are moving to Melbourne, it cost alot of money to engineer a boosted 6 down there.

redauxr8 · 26-08-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmpdau

But whether you actually listen is up to you, but I can guarantee if you slap on a charger and expect it to go fast you will be severely disappointed.

Cheers
Chris

Sorry mate, I highly disagree, going from a stockish or bolt on mod I6 falcon to a raptor or capa charged falcon is a BIG difference i tell you. A friend of mine has a supercharged AU XR6 VCT and with a pacemaker headers, 3 inch lukey catback, 3.73 diff gears and a capa powerdyne charger, running on a generic tune, he was getting 0-100s flat sixes.... Now with Hi stall and new cam.... All i can say is damn that thing is quick.....

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 11:43 AM

not really , when you have a mate down there with contacts in ford preformance
street use,

yes i do no you cant just slap a charger on and expect it to be a animal,

all i asked whas from expericence, the trouble you have had with these 2, so i can decide

pmpdau · 26-08-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redauxr8

Sorry mate, I highly disagree, going from a stockish or bolt on mod I6 falcon to a raptor or capa charged falcon is a BIG difference i tell you. A friend of mine has a supercharged AU XR6 VCT and with a pacemaker headers, 3 inch lukey catback, 3.73 diff gears and a capa powerdyne charger, running on a generic tune, he was getting 0-100s flat sixes.... Now with Hi stall and new cam.... All i can say is damn that thing is quick.....

Thats entirely true, but as you also mentioned. Your friend has changed the exhaust set-up and diff gears....both crucial parts of running a good boosted setup and 1/4 runs.

As I said s/c is the much cheaper option in regards to the work needed work done get it running

Also if you have friends in the ford performance area why are you asking?
Not being rude but im trying to offer some friendly advice, not to be shot down

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 11:47 AM

theres a lot of guys who bolt them on, take it to a dyno place to have it tuned, and they drive home

but run risk of damage to the gear box if its to old and the same with the engine, thats why its best to freshen up the drive line before any bolt on madness

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 11:48 AM

just asking, dont have a hissy fit, alright

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 11:51 AM

just wanted opinions and good advice, not just from one person

but to my preference i will go super charger, main reason is that your no putting the exhuast gasses back through the engine no matter how cold it is,

pmpdau · 26-08-2009, 11:52 AM

Mate dont ask for help if you dont expect answer, listen I dont really give a damn what you do.

You dont listen to what half the people say here anyway, why do you bother.

Good luck with your "project"

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 11:56 AM

if you dont like dont post and if you have a problem with me let me no

if this is crap dont post and get rid of it

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 11:59 AM

steady on fellas.

frd906 - I found going the raptor route was a good option for me as I didnt want to bother stuffing about with rebuilding engines etc, and my car is a daily driver. The Raptor kit is very well suited for people who just would like some thing that goes pretty hard without having to spend umpteen amount of dollars getting the thing to run reliably.

I fin the Raptor kits are very reliable but it all depends on your current engine condition.

Considering you are looking to rebuild you engine, you may want to opt for the turbo route as you can then setup your engine accordingly. That way you avoid potential disasters with just a bolt on turbo kit.

Turbo's are a great way to achieve mind blowing power and if killerwasps are what your after, Id go this direction.

If some added grunt without the stuffing about is your cup of tea, go the raptor kits.

The powerdyne's are an excellent choice too, but sadly you will need to customize a kit to suit your vehicle. Plus look at aftermarket tuning devices amongst a list of other things. The potential for the PD's are probably greater over the Raptors, but will need more planning and $$$ to achieve reliable results.

Thats what makes the Raptor kits so attractive. The kits are already designed to be bolted on in hours and ready to run in a weekend. All you need to do is make sure your exhaust system is capable and you have a decent fuel pump to handle the duties.

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 12:13 PM

well my engine can do with a good freshen up after its done 305 000 kms, earlyer in the year i was told 3 an 4 pistion were slighty down in compression then the others

so a freshen up is the definate way to go

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 12:14 PM

something quick and easy to put on and have fun with, not over the top in the power

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frd906

well my engine can do with a good freshen up after its done 305 000 kms, earlyer in the year i was told 3 an 4 pistion were slighty down in compression then the others

so a freshen up is the definate way to go

well thats fair enough then. I guess the question is what do you want to do to the engine? Just a freshen? or rebuild it with the good stuff to handle high boost?

A freshen will do nicely for a supercharged application. You could opt to do some mild port work to the head, add a decent cam, strengthen the bottom end and still get away with the rebuild on a reasonable budget.

A full rebuild with all the tough stuff will cost a lot more, more planning, more money, plus a freshen of your trans and diff wouldnt go astray.

Brakes are a key issue with what ever application you choose to run with also. A minimum is slotted rotors with some form of street pad.

Dont expect to just bolt on something and away you go, its a bit more involved than that. Especially with turbo applications.

Look at it this way, the MORE power you want, the more planning you'll have to do.

There is no easy way around it. You just have to be smart about the build and be realistic with your goals. Speak to people in the know, speak to tuners, members here who have been there done that. Read build threads, make lists, research your options, have a plan, have a budget.

Sounds like Im making a mountain out of a molehill but take my word for it, Im trying to save you some cash in the long run by helping you to avoid silly mistakes like I have in the past.

HTH

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frd906

something quick and easy to put on and have fun with, not over the top in the power

Are you looking to do the work yourself?

Are you sure boost is the route you want to pursue?

If so, the Raptor kit is your friend. ;)

http://www.raptorsc.com.au/kits.php?id=36

If not, look at a cam, diff gears and flash tuner.

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 12:37 PM

cam, i was considering a cam, wouldnt a lot more work have to be done for a cam, cause i no its not just chuck it in and power is there lot of ing around

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 12:43 PM

with a cam you will need new valve springs, vernier gear, possibly another timing chain and some shims depending if you go a reground cam. But should you choose to go the cam option you WILL need some kind of aftermarket ecu edit. Either a flash tuner or some kind of piggy back like a Chiptorque/Unichip.

I suggest getting a tuner to supply and fit the cam for you as well as tuning.

You could be looking at the vicinity of up to 1.5-2k to supply/fit/tune a cam with all the necessary bits and pieces. Drive in drive away.

You wont be able to run a aftermarket cam off the stock AU ecu. They arent like an e-series. The AU's need something to tune them with.

Dauphin · 26-08-2009, 01:13 PM

frd906, please learn to use the EDIT function if you wish to add an afterthought to your post a minute or two after, instead of creating another reply post.

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 03:03 PM

sorry,

crow cams, i looked on there site and they have a cam which you dont need a computer for,

i have a ecu bieng done over at the moment, reflashed all old codes wiped out and reinstalled with a chip, so all i have to do it take it to them, they put it in and tune it to the engine,

ill probaly use a mild cam, keep it driveable and not a pig

also i will be installing a manual and a 345 lsd and change the gears in that later

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frd906

sorry,

crow cams, i looked on there site and they have a cam which you dont need a computer for,

i have a ecu bieng done over at the moment, reflashed all old codes wiped out and reinstalled with a chip, so all i have to do it take it to them, they put it in and tune it to the engine,

ill probaly use a mild cam, keep it driveable and not a pig

also i will be installing a manual and a 345 lsd and change the gears in that later

well with those particular mods, you'll notice a reasonable improvement. Having a mild 'xr6' style grind cam is a good idea to keep things easy.

I think you'll notice a manual conversion and diff gears as the biggest change more than the cam.

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 03:13 PM

engine rebuild will cost me 1500 dollars, stock rebuild, little bit more if i want good internals and head work done,

manual will cost me basically nothing, cause im building a tralier for him

lsd, i will buy and send to a diff shop to be reco,

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 03:15 PM

yeh well my car seems to go quicker when im using the t bar as a shifter, drives and goes alot better, i think the auto is killing the cars potenial, i was told when i had it serviced that it was on its way out, so thats why im collecting bits and peaces,

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 03:40 PM

sounds like your going to be able to achieve this a realistic goal as a first stage. Then down the track you could opt for a supercharger look at some real figures.

The Monty · 26-08-2009, 03:41 PM

Id factor in about $1000 for headwork alone, unless you want a dodgy no good job done.
If you want to turbo your car reliably, factor in about $15000.
If you want to s/c and be happy with 200rwkw, factor in $6000, depending if your diff and gearbox can withstand the abuse.
If you do a cam now, you will need to tune properly, on a dyno for a few hours, otherwise the difference wont be noticeable.
You will also need to get it made to suit s/c or turbo.

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 03:45 PM

monty, where do you go to get your dyno tune done, as my mate needs one done on his modded el xr6,

whats the price for it, and just to put the car on it and see what it is making

frd906 · 26-08-2009, 03:49 PM

yeh well i need a manual bad, sick of the 300 000 k auto,

im looking for a series 1 manual computer( must before smart shield) if any one nos where i can find one as there is none up here at all in qld cheers

also mate is looking for a , ef factory tickford ecu for a dual fuel ef

GreenMachine · 26-08-2009, 03:51 PM

Sorry to hijack here, but someone hinted earlier (I think) that you could use a raptor blower kit without ECU mods/tuning/chipping? Is that the case for AU or E-series.

I'm interested in eventually supercharging my EL.

blueoval · 26-08-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMachine

Sorry to hijack here, but someone hinted earlier (I think) that you could use a raptor blower kit without ECU mods/tuning/chipping? Is that the case for AU or E-series.

I'm interested in eventually supercharging my EL.

I dont think that would be possible to run boost without some kind of remapping of the ecu.