HSV to cop 7 litre LS7 power

[Cobra]

According to this thread on LS1 forums HSV are going to drop the C6 Z06 motor into a limited and last edition Coupe. Yet again I fear Ford will be left in the dark...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48990

[Psycho Chicken]

Hmmmm special edition to sell off the last of the coupe bodies, sounds familar. Will it be white with blue stripes?

$125k! Bugger that, you'd be into an M3 for not much more.

[347Stroker]

Well after giving them to the QLD police force the resale value of Monaros (2 door commodores..lol) is going to be hurting, with the ex cop ones coming up very cheap after their 40k tour of duty...

My guess is that they are just not selling, hence now becoming cop cars, and now to move some, they will get a monster motor to try get the collectors in a frenzy....

I'll stick to my GT Falcons....rofl

[chevypower]

If it's mentioned on a forum, it must be true.... When's that 6.8L V10 Ford GTHO coming out?

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by chevypower

If it's mentioned on a forum, it must be true.... When's that 6.8L V10 Ford GTHO coming out?

LOL, you crack me up mate.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by chevypower

If it's mentioned on a forum, it must be true.... When's that 6.8L V10 Ford GTHO coming out?

If you don't beleive ANYTHING is true on a forum then why are you on? A few guys on that forum have put deposits down for this vehicle. And, unlike Ford fans who have put deposits on GTHOs without any real proof there will be one, a few guys on LS1.com.au have acctually had emails from HSV asking if they want to trade in their vehicle for a "376kw HSV". Others have had thier HSV dealer confirm this vehicle from HSV by Chris Payne.

My point of this thread was to say that I fear once again Ford will be left behind. Remember the 1999 Sydney Motor Show? HSV had 250kw Clubsports while FTe had 220kw auto TS50s. Well if Fords lineup seemed very underwhelming back then, it was about to look a whole lot worse when HSV came out with a 300kw/510nm sedan. And Fords answer? They still don't have one to this day. If the Typhoon motor was in an AU bodyshell it may have been a little different...

Now, if there was ever a better time for Ford to bring out a 21st Century cult car it's now. Whether it be called GTHO or not, really depends on how good the car is. If they can get an untuned US GT motor (410kw/680nm) then it deserves the name, otherwise call it something different. GTHO was the best, and only ever should be the best.

But that's all besides the point. Ford and FPV need to act now! I wouldnt be supprised to see a production ready version of a VE GTS sedan at the MMS with a 427 plucked straight from the Corvette and dropped under the bonnet. It will probably weigh in the high 1800kgs, but be well equipped to tackle the worlds best head on, just like its predecessor did 6 years ago when it had the 300kw callaway motor.

Please Ford/FPV/Prodrive - give us a factory vehicle that we can truly be proud of!!! We have all waited long enough... _

[max^power]

Originally Posted by chevypower

If it's mentioned on a forum, it must be true.... When's that 6.8L V10 Ford GTHO coming out?

LOL, i think i saw one on ebay... if it's on there, it's got to be legit.

[Steffo]

Lets see. Corvette Z06 - 505hp 485ftlbs (377kW 657Nm).

Holden/HSV openly said that the VT-VZ body/chassis was over its limit with anything more then 300kW. So it would be in a VE.

We know nothing of VE yet except that it will apparantley gain 230kg over the equivalent VZ. HSV VZ Clubsport = 1696kg. So we can assume then, 1926kg for this new GTS 427. 377kW and 1926kg is 195.74kW/tonne, well above that of any VZ HSV of BF FPV. But at $125k approx (from what's been said so far), it will also be priced well above any HSV or FPV.

So herein lies the question.... does FPV want to make an expensive, limited run car, solely for the purpose of competing with this new GTS 427. Or will they keep their guns aimed squarely at the Clubsport, like they are now.

If FPV does go for a GTS 427 compeitor, I doubt they'd use the Ford GT engine. Something along the lines of the 336kW 610Nm 5.4 S/C V8 engine about to go into the SVT Shelby Cobra GT500 Mustang seems like the more likely choice...

Either way, interesting times lie ahead. The world is pushing the mark, well past the previous 300kW benchmark. HSV/FPV will too. Not that long ago, 200kW was the absolute benchmark for our performance sedans... these days, taxis are almost that powerful.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Ford are too scared to try and make any bold attempts to win supporters hearts.
Just look at the new FPV BF range they havent bothered to touch the engines at all and just add more weight.
Seriously who buys auto performance cars, you wanna go fast buy a manual.

[MAD]

Just a ploy to get a competitive vehicle into the GTProduction racing again. It will be mentioned everywhere, there will be more pre-orders than vehicles in its first day, then it will mysteriously disappear from the market after many power and feature downgrades, but somehow it will still be an acceptable vehicle for GT Production racing.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Ford are too scared to try and make any bold attempts to win supporters hearts.
Just look at the new FPV BF range they havent bothered to touch the engines at all and just add more weight.
Seriously who buys auto performance cars, you wanna go fast buy a manual.

F6 Typhoon doesn't need to be touched for the moment. It will much any LS2 powered HSV. After what I've witnessed with my own eyes, it will take ALOT to convince me otherwise.

And as for your last comment... well, tell that to anyone who's bought a FPV 6spd, Mercedes CLK-DTM AMG, Mercedes-McLaren SLR, Audi RS6... etc. Transmission bias really is a thing of the past, and so is manuals being faster as a rule from the factory. This is 2006, not 1966.

[Cobra]

It will be definately a VE Steffo I agree. But at 1900kg, I think it will stuggle against Mercs C63 AMG. A C class with 380kw/620nm with 7 speed auto around 1700kg.

Steffo that blown mustang donk is a boat anchor. Iron block and supercharger. Just what FPV don't need, more weight over the front axle.

Hopefully theres a Limited edition Cobra R with a detuned GT motor with say 510hp and it lobs down under! I can dream can't I?

[apolloxbgt]

Originally Posted by Psycho Chicken

Hmmmm special edition to sell off the last of the coupe bodies, sounds familar. Will it be white with blue stripes?

Or maroon with gold pinstripes and wheels,and an le badge.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Ford are too scared to try and make any bold attempts to win supporters hearts.
Just look at the new FPV BF range they havent bothered to touch the engines at all and just add more weight.
Seriously who buys auto performance cars, you wanna go fast buy a manual.

I don't think so. The Boss V8 was made to comply with the new Euro emmissions regs and still keep the 290 output of the previous model by way of some tweaking, so I don't know how you could claim that the engines haven't been touched.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Cobra

It will be definately a VE Steffo I agree. But at 1900kg, I think it will stuggle against Mercs C63 AMG. A C class with 380kw/620nm with 7 speed auto around 1700kg.

Steffo that blown mustang donk is a boat anchor. Iron block and supercharger. Just what FPV don't need, more weight over the front axle.

Hopefully theres a Limited edition Cobra R with a detuned GT motor with say 510hp and it lobs down under! I can dream can't I?

AMG have stated they won't be building any more C class AMG's.

[Cobra]

When? Motor said the C63 AMG was coming out. Would be a shame if it doesn't. It is such a beast.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

AMG have stated they won't be building any more C class AMG's.

I'd also like to know when they said this. Doesn't seem right... they'd completley lose their share of the M3 and S4/RS4 market.

Originally Posted by Cobra

It will be definately a VE Steffo I agree. But at 1900kg, I think it will stuggle against Mercs C63 AMG. A C class with 380kw/620nm with 7 speed auto around 1700kg.

1926kg and 377kW is 195.74kW/tonne, as I worked out previously. We're looking at approx $125k, also previously said. 657Nm and 1926kg is 341.12Nm/tonne.

A Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG has 350kW 700Nm and is 1835kg. That's 190.73kW/tonne and 381.47Nm/tonne.

A BMW M5 has 373kW 520Nm and is 1755kg. That's 212.53kW/tonne and 296.29Nm/tonne.

An Audi RS6 has 331kW 560Nm and is 1840kg. That's 179.89kW/tonne and 304.34Nm/tonne.

So the GTS 427 would be right up there with the E55 for power/weight and with the E55 for torque/weight.

All those cars are very expensive ($221,900 E55, $226,000 M5, $218,000 RS6). They all hit 100km/h in under 5 sec (4.7 sec RS6, 4.5 sec M5, 4.3 sec E55). They all do the 1/4 in less then 13 sec (12.9 sec RS6, 12.5 sec M5 and E55). They're all limited to 250km/h but will do in excess of 300km/h without the limiter. The HSV will perform like they do, even at 1926kg. If all we go by is power to weight. Well, it should be close.

And at $125k, it undercuts the BMW M3, Audi RS4 and Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG for price. It would be a scenario much like the $65,800 C6 Z06 in the USA. Impossible to buy a faster car for the money.

Now say FPV scores the 336kW 610Nm GT500 engine. It is basically the same as a Boss 290, with an Eaton M112 blower on it. So how much does a blower and all its extras weigh? Lets just say, for the purpose of this little theorism, 100lbs (45kg). Take the weight of a six-speed auto BF GT... 1855kg. Add 45kg and you've got 1900kg.

With 336kW 610Nm, that's 176.84kW/tonne and 321.05Nm/tonne. Power/weight like an RS6, and torque/weight between the HSV and an RS6. I imagine it wouldn't go that badly. Especially considering the engine will probably make its 610Nm from about 3000 up. And, since its a MUCH cheaper engine then a GenIV LS7 (its just a 5.4 DOHC with a blower on it), I bet they could undercut it for price too.

The 450hp Mustang V8 wouldn't be too bad a thing to stuff under an FPV GT's bonnet if you ask me. In fact, no need to create a new badge for it. With BF, GT and GT-P are very close together in spec. Both get 19s etc etc. Give the GT-P a blown 450hp engine, and suddenly the P is actually worth a bit of extra cash. I'd like to see it happen, I really would.

[gtfpv]

a 7 litre had to happen as they keep getting stiffer competition . soon they will be fitting jet engines .

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by Steve

I don't think so. The Boss V8 was made to comply with the new Euro emmissions regs and still keep the 290 output of the previous model by way of some tweaking, so I don't know how you could claim that the engines haven't been touched.

exactly, and judging from the motor article, the LS2's are now dogs, as they have been restricted so much to comply with the new Euro III regs

[AnthonyQLD]

Originally Posted by Steve

I don't think so. The Boss V8 was made to comply with the new Euro emmissions regs and still keep the 290 output of the previous model by way of some tweaking, so I don't know how you could claim that the engines haven't been touched.

Thats what I was going to say. :ticking:

[EA2BA]

I am currently contracting at HSV, and see no evidence this is going to happen

[OzJavelin]

Hmmmm special edition to sell off the last of the coupe bodies, sounds familar.

So .. is that why they organised an additional 400 CV8Z coupes????

Will it be white with blue stripes?

Nah .. maroon with gold snowflake mags!

$125k! Bugger that, you'd be into an M3 for not much more.

M3 .. Yuck! Rather the Monaro (actually rather a base CV8 and spend money on mods)

[HSE2]

So if true that would mean that this supposed gentlemen’s agreement is in some bother?

Me thinks it might mark the return of the GTS as well, again if true.

$125k is a pretty good price for a product involving that engine.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

exactly, and judging from the motor article, the LS2's are now dogs, as they have been restricted so much to comply with the new Euro III regs

Not sure how you got that. The LS2 was compliant and as far as I know hasn't been touched. What Motor did say that there was variation with the LS1 and given the test car they are wondering if history isn't repeating itself!

[Mack 6]

I just think Holden are trying to gain a "frightening death machine" classification. No matter how hard they try, those XR's seem to be beating them across the board.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by GTS_300_Coupe

Ford are too scared to try and make any bold attempts to win supporters hearts.
Just look at the new FPV BF range they havent bothered to touch the engines at all and just add more weight.
Seriously who buys auto performance cars, you wanna go fast buy a manual.

Where to start!

For starters the quickest cars are now predominately autos or new age derivatives of such transmissions. Many of the top manufactures are building auto only performance cars so that part is a load of rubbish.

However REAL drivers cars are manuals, and I bet that’s what you meant to say. :hihi:

FPV haven't given the GT the attention it deserves and to say it now complies with emission regulations while not going backwards is a bit of a cop out. The benchmark is forwards and closing the gap down was ignored.

Having said that Tickford and FPV have never received the plaudits they deserve in as far as model designation goes.

As I have said before the GT range is an excellent excellent product that will deliver much enjoyment, satisfaction and I dare say put that smile on the dial as has been the catch cry many a time on this forum.
Trouble is that applies to many a great product out in the great blue yonder today.

When name plate like the GT is resurrected, there should have been an undertaking to maintain it somewhere near the pointy end of public recognition in terms of performance indicator benchmarks. Now for some that isn't important but for all it’s where legends come from. If you aren't committed to this end then don’t bring these name plates back.

What will be interesting is what HSV do to maintain their own benchmarks with VE. My money is that standing still won’t be on their agenda.

Taking a look at FPV and they do seem content in letting owners try to modify their GTs, much in the endeavor of getting more response. They are basically striving for a "feeling". With the F6, FPV bent over backwards trying to sort out that similar feeling with the first of the F6s cars that resulted in new software. The Gt struggles on with the same reports from both owners and the media. When FPV say that the "GT" and the "F6" cater to different buyers it is pretty clear to see which segment is considered to have brain fade. "We’ll just give them some noise and nice looks and that will suffice" There doesn’t seem to be real commitment behind the GT product. There is lots of window dressing and it is a car that seems to be selling well but for a performance model it is too far behind the benchmarks to get the recognition that the name plate deserves. It’s the best car to own every day but when the name is GT there has to be public perceptions of greatness or being somewhere near the best of what’s on offer. Clearly that’s not the case and BF GT had the chance to close down that gap, but who’s to say the delay in VE isn’t primarily responsible for a cut back in BF content.

It looks like FPV crystal ball was pretty correct. 06 VZ HSVs remain untouched in the engine dept till VE comes out in the third quarter. When Car companies are in as much financial hardship as these two companies you aren't going to give before you have to. Unfortunately that isn't the sort of commitment hard core GT enthusiasts are looking for.

[4Vman]

Cant see it happening, how many 300kw GTS's did they sell @ 100K? not enough for them to justify keeping them in the range.
You'd have to say then that a new "GTS" @ 125k would have an even smaller market. Ford want volume sales, not waste money engineering low volume one off's..

[EA2BA]

the GTS was only ever a limited edition, just like the HSV GTO LE was only ever a run of 100.

All the 300kw gts were sold before they even built one as well.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Cant see it happening, how many 300kw GTS's did they sell @ 100K? not enough for them to justify keeping them in the range.
You'd have to say then that a new "GTS" @ 125k would have an even smaller market. Ford want volume sales, not waste money engineering low volume one off's..

The old GTS had a different problem. As the other HSV models closed in the GTS become irrelevant to the tune of 94k. When the gap was 50kws people were paying the ask. If a gap of around 70 kws eventuates AND this engine remains exclusive and it is limited, which it will, it becomes a different ball game.

The GTS value was also measured in terms of being a halo car. A car where innovation was being introduced to what is really a budget segment. Many people believe VE HSV will be an extraordinary jump from the product they have on offer now. It’s going to be exciting to see what they come out with and I for one am looking forward to it

[EA2BA]

the GTS also had adjustable oil dampened suspension and a whole host of other stuff, it was really a track car to drive on the road.