Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > Non Ford Related Community Forums > The Bar

The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-04-2012, 11:01 AM   #1
turbodewd
FG Falcon fan
 
turbodewd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
Lightbulb We need a 15% GST

As a normal PAYG taxpayer I find it annoying that the following groups avoid or minimise massively their income tax:

super rich
crims
small business operators
those in the cash economy

Now at least they cant avoid the GST when they visit a restaurant, buy a TV or a Big Mac.

Now if I was in charge Id bump up the GST to 15% so these people actually pay some tax. I would also work out the value of this tax increase and reduce income tax accordingly. Try to make it revenue neutral. But we would see less tax paid by PAYG taxpayers and more by the above groups.

Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically).



turbodewd is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:23 AM   #2
04redxr8
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
04redxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Are you serious?? And which of those 4 categories do u fall into?
04redxr8 is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:28 AM   #3
galaxy xr8
Giddy up.
 
galaxy xr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kramerica Industries.
Posts: 15,637
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

WTF!!!!!!, if only you knew what Tax people earning a decent wage pay !.
You obviously have no idea my friend.
galaxy xr8 is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:30 AM   #4
EFFalcon
Last warning
 
EFFalcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

so we'd have more disposable income, but prices would rise.
end result, people spend more overseas importing goods :P
__________________
FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating
EL GT - Supercharged
NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged
DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo
OFFROADER - Ford Explorer
EFFalcon is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 11:47 AM   #5
Geez Louise
Awesome
 
Geez Louise's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In my own little world..Everyone here knows me :)
Posts: 9,401
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: All the behind the scenes things that help the community. 
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Yeah I can see this thread ending well.

It is verging on the edge of the sites T&C's.

If you want to have a debate/discussion, at least know what the point is that you want to make first.

Cheers
Col
__________________
Geez Louise is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:06 PM   #6
DJL351
XR & FPV Owner
 
DJL351's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: On the Dark Side of The Moon
Posts: 2,355
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

A bit like Pauline's idea to just print more money......... Yeah sure!
__________________
2005 BF GT (6sp manual - Build #183)
2015 SZ MkII Territory Titanium
2016.75 LZ Focus Sport

Quote:
probably the stupidist post on aff - congrats
Quote:
Originally Posted by flappist
There was once a time when every young man in this country was familiar with firearms and many owned them privately along with a stock of ammo and some bush gear.

Now the best we can hope for is to unfriend them on facebook then SMS their commanders with !!!1!!!!!!11!1!! and then finally plank a tank.......
DJL351 is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:13 PM   #7
The Yeti
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
The Yeti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

yea the eazy tax system its (or variations off) have been debated many times I think Pauline was the last one to raise it

trouble is nothing would change the GVT wouldnt drop the income tax to the same extent and the dum shmucks (like me would still be paying through the nose)

just like all these other things according to to the Labour govt I'm a high income earner so my tax rate wouldnt change so I would get dun over again like the carbon tax compensation, the health insurance rebate, the K rudd hand outs, sorry I dont think this idea would work either
__________________
Pariahs C.C.
What could possibly go wrong

I post images with postimg.cc (so I don’t forget)
The Yeti is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #8
turbodewd
FG Falcon fan
 
turbodewd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

I dont know if any of you actually read and digested what I was suggesting. Im a former tax officer (1993-2000) now im an IT contractor at the ATO. I have a very good knowledge of the tax system.

In a nutshell I point out that most taxpayers like you and me pay normal amounts of income tax. While many pay none or not what they really should. I point out that noone can avoid GST when buying a TV.

So I suggest that GST increases, income tax goes down. The vast majority of people on these forums would be income taxpayers thru PAYG/PAYE.

Doesnt anyone here realise income tax is a giant game full of rorts, loopholes, etc? Its a joke.
turbodewd is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #9
pottery beige
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,987
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

off his head......
pottery beige is online now  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:22 PM   #10
The Yeti
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
The Yeti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
I dont know if any of you actually read and digested what I was suggesting. Im a former tax officer (1993-2000) now im an IT contractor at the ATO. I have a very good knowledge of the tax system.

In a nutshell I point out that most taxpayers like you and me pay normal amounts of income tax. While many pay none or not what they really should. I point out that noone can avoid GST when buying a TV.

So I suggest that GST increases, income tax goes down. The vast majority of people on these forums would be income taxpayers thru PAYG/PAYE.

Doesnt anyone here realise income tax is a giant game full of rorts, loopholes, etc? Its a joke.
it is a big game full of holes no question, but all raising the GST does is create a cash economy, where tradies do more Cash work and employ the services of other people in cash, the only tax you capture is on sales, not service and I think (Only an asumption) that atleast 50% of the money in our economy is for service based transactions

yea I get cranky when I hear people talking about how they split there income with their Mrs or understate their income and their business covers almost all of their living expences, but I dont see a 15% GST being the answer
__________________
Pariahs C.C.
What could possibly go wrong

I post images with postimg.cc (so I don’t forget)
The Yeti is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #11
tweeked
N/A all the way
 
tweeked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Anything that stop the Gummint continually thinking I am rich just due to earnings.

I always liked this old story

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100...

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7..
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do..

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?


They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
__________________
BA GT
5.88 litres of Modular Boss Powered Muscle
300++ RWKW N/A on 98 octane on any dyno, happy or sad, on any day, with any operator you choose - 12.39@115.5 full weight

tweeked is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:31 PM   #12
turbodewd
FG Falcon fan
 
turbodewd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Some tradies do whole or partial cash in hand, so they avoid income tax. But they cant avoid the GST when they buy a TV or a hair straightener for the Mrs.

This is the simple point some are struggling with, they are happy to pay income tax while others rort it.

But noone can avoid the GST when u buy a box of condoms or a bullbar.

Id love to also abolish deductions and reduce the income tax rates accordingly. No more rorts.
turbodewd is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:32 PM   #13
trippytaka
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
trippytaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,421
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
As a normal PAYG taxpayer I find it annoying that the following groups avoid or minimise massively their income tax:

super rich
crims
small business operators
those in the cash economy

Now at least they cant avoid the GST when they visit a restaurant, buy a TV or a Big Mac.

Now if I was in charge Id bump up the GST to 15% so these people actually pay some tax. I would also work out the value of this tax increase and reduce income tax accordingly. Try to make it revenue neutral. But we would see less tax paid by PAYG taxpayers and more by the above groups.

Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically).

Haha good luck selling that one.

I agree completely.

I would push it further, drop income tax tosuper low flat rate for people under 200k income. Then increase GST right up to 20%.

Also, delete nagative gearing - 1.3m properties negatively geared in Aus means billions of tax $ not being generated.

Take it back to a you earn it, you keep it. But you spend, you pay it! System.
trippytaka is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:33 PM   #14
RedHotGT
Long live the Falcon GT
 
RedHotGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Why don't we close the loopholes for the super rich... Rather than punishing the entire country?
__________________
RedHotGT is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:48 PM   #15
pottery beige
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,987
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

some jobs i've payed shed loads of tax.. enough to support a few dolies and five or six single mums.... yea i feel i need to be slugged more for my maccas........
pottery beige is online now  
Old 04-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #16
msman
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 589
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by EFFalcon
so we'd have more disposable income, but prices would rise.
end result, people spend more overseas importing goods :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
Some tradies do whole or partial cash in hand, so they avoid income tax. But they cant avoid the GST when they buy a TV or a hair straightener for the Mrs.

This is the simple point some are struggling with, they are happy to pay income tax while others rort it.

But noone can avoid the GST when u buy a box of condoms or a bullbar.

Id love to also abolish deductions and reduce the income tax rates accordingly. No more rorts.
you make an good point in theory but putting it into practice would result in what effalcon has said.
so i don't think it is workable. points for trying though.
msman is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:00 PM   #17
turbodewd
FG Falcon fan
 
turbodewd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by loftie
Why don't we close the loopholes for the super rich... Rather than punishing the entire country?
Yep, thats another part of my suggestion, abolish deductions. But there are these fancy family trust things, which i dont fully understand, this is what the super rich use to massively minimise their tax. I cant blame them.

But what Im suggesting is that when they buy a Ferrari or a yacht, they cant avoid the GST. The car retailer charges GST and collects it and sends it to the ATO. Its far easier to audit 100,000 businesses than 10 million taxpayers.

Its normal police officers, teachers and bus drivers who carry the tax burden in this country.
turbodewd is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:22 PM   #18
Magna
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Magna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,013
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
I dont know if any of you actually read and digested what I was suggesting. Im a former tax officer (1993-2000) now im an IT contractor at the ATO. I have a very good knowledge of the tax system.

I point out that noone can avoid GST when buying a TV.
unless they claim it on the business like the boss that gets a new FPV ute every year they claim the GST back and the rest is a tax deduction
Magna is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:24 PM   #19
The Yeti
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
The Yeti's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by pottery beige
some jobs i've payed shed loads of tax.. enough to support a few dolies and five or six single mums.... yea i feel i need to be slugged more for my maccas........
dont worry about the Dolie's and single mums we support Pott's, they will get extra on their pensions so they dont suffer due to the increased cost of Macc's, VB n Winny blues
__________________
Pariahs C.C.
What could possibly go wrong

I post images with postimg.cc (so I don’t forget)
The Yeti is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:38 PM   #20
Rodge
Banned
 
Rodge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5,801
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

We have 15% GST in N.Z. and the Govt and the economy are going backwards.

Greece has a value added tax of 23% from memory, nuff said.
Rodge is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:46 PM   #21
EFFalcon
Last warning
 
EFFalcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

alternatively, people could just accept the tax system and just accept paying tax is part of life.
personally, i couldn't care less what some millionaire is doing with their income/tax.

i make the most of what i/my family pays.
__________________
FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating
EL GT - Supercharged
NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged
DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo
OFFROADER - Ford Explorer
EFFalcon is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:48 PM   #22
dimka100
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 690
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

1. How about we get rid of the endless dole payments first ...

2. How about we sell expensive housing commission lands back to the private sector (e.g. Redfern, Surry Hills, Randwick ...) and ship the dole buggers to live in woop woop land where its cheap ...

3. How about we reduce useless government political workforce that simply sucking out tax payers money ...

Believe me this list can be made almost endless ...
dimka100 is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:48 PM   #23
chevypower
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
chevypower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically).
Socialism is a utopian idea that does not work in the real world. That's why Obama is failing, and Europe is sinking!
chevypower is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #24
kaniSS
BIG MEMBER ;)
 
kaniSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sydney, NSW
Posts: 940
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

**** off. We pay enough tax as it is.
__________________
2010 FG XR6T, EGO, MANUAL, LUXURY PACK.
kaniSS is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:12 PM   #25
04redxr8
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
04redxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

So this an attack on tradies then. Do you remember when the GST was bought in? What happened to the economy? How many tradies lost their homes? No guess not.

Instead of suggesting more taxes, how about accountability for how our Guvmints spend the amounts they get? If they were held accountable for their spending, we could all pay less tax.

Typical Govco moron always looking at the civilians to carry them.
04redxr8 is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:13 PM   #26
flappist
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
Yep, thats another part of my suggestion, abolish deductions. But there are these fancy family trust things, which i dont fully understand, this is what the super rich use to massively minimise their tax. I cant blame them.

But what Im suggesting is that when they buy a Ferrari or a yacht, they cant avoid the GST. The car retailer charges GST and collects it and sends it to the ATO. Its far easier to audit 100,000 businesses than 10 million taxpayers.

Its normal police officers, teachers and bus drivers who carry the tax burden in this country.
Yep you are right about one thing....YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

A few points:

1) The primary deduction for any company is.....wages. So what are you going to do for money when you are sacked?

2) Even if it were 1,000,000% GST it is only the PAYG people who will cop it in the neck not the self employed or company directors. Every single car I have bought since 2000 has had the GST claimed back immediately. A PAYG person cannot do that so increasing it will hurt the ones you are try in help.

3) The people you are trying to hurt are the ones that are actually making the system work. If you slam private business as has been done in USSR, North Korea, Cuba, most of Africa you will get exactly the same result.

Maybe you think everyone should be equal to you in your PAYG job? Fair enough. Of course shops, pubs, petrol stations and whatever else will only open from 9 to 5 on week days because to have to work outside those hours is not fair.
No TV or Radio at night, that is not fair.
There will be no credit so you have to save up and pay cash up front for EVERYTHING.
You will not get any more many than anyone else regardless of how hard you work or what you do and you can only drive the same car as everyone else othewise it is not fair.

The most expensive thing in a business in the whinging employee.....YOU.

YOU get 9% super, 17.5% loading, 4 weeks paid hols, sickies, workers comp, lunch break, smoke breaks and all the other little bonuses that private business owners do not.

Are you prepared to give all of that up to reduce the tax burden on others?

And the last question, I see you live in Canberra, you are not a public servant, the greatest money sink in the country, are you?
flappist is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:33 PM   #27
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbodewd
As a normal PAYG taxpayer I find it annoying that the following groups avoid or minimise massively their income tax:

super rich
crims
small business operators
those in the cash economy

Now at least they cant avoid the GST when they visit a restaurant, buy a TV or a Big Mac.

Now if I was in charge Id bump up the GST to 15% so these people actually pay some tax. I would also work out the value of this tax increase and reduce income tax accordingly. Try to make it revenue neutral. But we would see less tax paid by PAYG taxpayers and more by the above groups.

Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically).

The 1st of April was on Sunday... you are a little late.
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:52 PM   #28
Yellow_Festiva
Where to next??
 
Yellow_Festiva's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

Quote:
Originally Posted by loftie
Why don't we close the loopholes for the super rich... Rather than punishing the entire country?
Because they will just get better lawyers and accountants. Failing that, they will take their money offshore.

Either way, they will still get their way, and the rest get punished.

Remember, our system is far from 'fair' (and that will NEVER change)... it is just one that fits best.

Some will win, some will lose.... such is life.
__________________
___________________________

I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more.......
Yellow_Festiva is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:53 PM   #29
turbodewd
FG Falcon fan
 
turbodewd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

flappist,

im a contractor, I dont get a cent if Im sick with the flu.

1. Im talking about about income tax for individuals, not companies.

2. I advocate abolishing all deductions so you couldnt claim anything. Why not add up the value of the deductions that people claim and reduce the income tax rates by that amount. There are clever boffins at Treasury who can do those sums/calcs. You could then abolish half the ATO and save taxpayers millions.

3. A hysterical point mentioning North Korea.

You have to realise Im on everyone's side here, Im onthe inside at the ATO, I see how much taxpayer funds goes to waste administering ridiculous systems. All our Aussie dollars go overseas to administer our tax systems - HP, Optus (Singtel), Accenture and Lockheed Martin.

So youre happy to have a tax system which rips policeman and teachers off? Which sends millions overseas?

The tax system is broken badly and it costs taxpayers dearly. The GST is the best tax weve got.
turbodewd is offline  
Old 04-04-2012, 03:03 PM   #30
XM-coupe
Regular Member
 
XM-coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 106
Default Re: We need a 15% GST

No comment, well I could comment but it wouldnt be very nice and positive at all.
XM-coupe is offline  
Closed Thread


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL