Is it just me?

[Laminge]

I don’t know, is it just me, or are we as Ford buyers the hardest critics on both the product and delivery method.

I don’t know about you guys and girls but I am getting a little tired of all these dummy spits I see around from people who either are the cause of the issue from their mods, or feel its necessary to scream wildly about issues that should be resolved on a personal level with dealerships.

I know with cars I have purchased there has always been problem but I always made contact with the dealership and ensured that they are corrected.

If its a mod that has caused the problem, then I will suck it and wear it, mind you I did have a go to get the box changed on my xr8, and posted my experience on the old forums, but those of you that remember the security guard incident it was quite amusing.

What are peoples thoughts?

Is it an ever growing mentality, or is it that the younger generation are buying new cars, - or having them purchased for them - and that the oldies just have come to expect certain faults?

[Paxton]

When I picked my Territory up I went over it with a fine tooth comb, and found some issues. There were some dents in the roof, which caused me to refuse delivery until the dents were rectified. They took me and the car down to the service centre, and sucked the dents our while I waited. If after a week I had found them I am sure Ford would have made me pay to get them 'sucked' out. My XR6 was fine, but I was putting the pressure on them to get the car delivered.

I have not had any other problems that Ford service could not rectify, and the Ping in the engine was the testing point with that. Hopefully there will be no other issues for me to contact Ford about. I have not been a member of and Motoring Forum long enough to have any real opinions about how badly we whine, but I don't keep my cars long enough to do anything serious to them. A new Snorkel or a new suspension set up would be nice, but I don't want to void my warranty, because that car is the only one I will have for three years. Bring on 2007, and the next Territory revision.


-Andrew

[DOC]

A good point made, it is probably as you have suggested above and also i believe the more frequent use of computers / forums in itself is a factor as well, now more and more people can gain access to the net and forums, and instead of just letting thier feelings out on the cat / dog or who ever, people now use the net a bit like family and maybe feel there are similar or like minded people who will understand thier problem online ( i may be off track but would say close ).

to give a classic today i spent $200 for a BA bottom grill ( from ford dealer ), came home read the dodgy intstructions, which wanted me to decimate and cut half of my lower opening up to fit it ( i chose to cut the dodgy grill instead then found it would not fit due to the shape being totaly differant to the opening, so on the phone to the ford parts giving them a what for, got put through to the expert fitter who said " o yea they dont fit to ell do they " ended up scratchin the the new BA lower scoop with htier shi* grill and that was it i was pi#$ed off, and when i returns it to them for my money back i get " whats the problem " my response " where do you want me to F(&^% start bud"

To keep it in with the original post / question my thoughts were ill go on line an tell em ( here on the forum as stated above ), but decided to just sit n calm down and pat the dog

the moral being the wife n kids wer shopping and i just needed to tell anyone how peed of i was, so yep i can see why this happens online and in a funny way it is not all bad if kept in perspective, on the other hand there are limits and it can be taken to far.

DOC

[rag top]

I think it comes down to the extra stress people are under these days.

Sure there are faults that people have with their cars, and they are right to be ticked off, but sometimes an over reaction can make life difficult.

[paul7v7]

I agree with what you say Gary. People need to think about the issues mods are going to cause to a car that wasn't originally intended to have them. However these days I think people are more wanting to put the blame on someone else and not be accountable for their own actions.

This included dealers. I think these guys are the gateway to a happy ownership with a car. I know owning a Ford i wasn't going to have a trouble free run. I have had problems with the car but the dealer had bent over backwards to fix the problems. So maybe we also need to look at the dealers.

[Teki04]

Ive said in a thread somewhere, that i wasnt happy with my predelivery... the whole process was screwed around... and yea... Ford shit me.

Mind you we have had 2 Hondas previously.... not one problem... didnt get one this time cause i would never drive a Jazz.....

[Full Noise]

I was supposed to pick up my new car today, however the dealer rang me yesterday and said that they wanted to change it to Monday as they wanted this car to be 110%. They know me personally and know how I like my cars. The salesman was relieved when I said “no problem”. I actually appreciate the trouble that New Oak Ford and FPV have gone too. I have never had a problem with warranty issues as I always deal with the same person. I also think that attitude has a bit to do with it.

Cheers, Danny

[JAK]

I agree with what DOC says in a way, forums is a good place for members to let there frustrations out when, and if, they have any problems or issues with there cars.

I know I have had some issues with my car which, I went direct to my dealer with. And when they gave me the run around I went straight to Ford/FPV direct. Problems solved pronto.

But hey, why not have a whinge especially when you spend a lot of money on a car?!

cheers, JAK.

[Steffo]

I wouldn't have with a reasonable fault. However, if something kept repeating and repeating and repeating needlessly, I'd have to take things into my own hands. This is a non Ford related example, but anyway... my uncle's VY SS Ute is 39,000km and its on its third 4L60E 4spd gearbox.. first one started to "slip" and eventually wouldn't shift at all... Holden changed it under warranty... 2nd one was fine for a while, then it did the same thing.. 3rd one was recently put in, also under warranty.

If it were up to me, gearbox #3 would have been a worked manualised TH700R4, end of story. My uncle was annoyed and even considering getting them to install a 6spd manual into the car instead. But if its something small that can happen to Bentley, let alone a Falcon, I wouldn't be too worried.

They need to implement some better laws here though. I remember on Today Tonight a couple years ago, a guy with a brand new $100,000 HSV VXII SV300 on there, he'd had 5 engine rebuilds on that car, and #5 was still not working properly. He was spewing. In Europe, and I believe in some parts of America, there's a law that would have required HSV to simply give him an all-new car for free. And he bloody well deserved nothing less. I'd be pretty damn ****ed if I just payed $100,000 for a luxury sports car that had been rebuilt FIVE times and still had serious problems.

[WASP]

Good topic Gary

I love cars and love buying and owning them. I expect some things to go wrong and am pleased when they don't. I trust that if something needs attention the dealer I selected will help me and has my best interest at heart. I even trust Ford or whom ever to build me a quality product that will meet my expectations. Many may find this to be a very naive attitude but it allows me more often that not to enjoy the experience rather than worry about it.

At the time of ordering and delivery, I’ve already spent many hours/days/months researching the car I wanted and have choosen a dealer who will look after me best. I’ve made the choices and done all things that are within my control. It’s now time to trust those of whom I have selected to do their bit.

If the dealer however doesn’t look after me after a chance or two, I’ll let them know and just won't go back. If the car ends up being a dog then I sell it and move on. Life is too short and owning and buying cars is one of the things in my life which I really enjoy. I don't see the point in making it a miserable experience for myself by getting upset about things I can't control. I just focus on the things I can and when I get tried of doing that, I’ll by a Camry.

[T_Terror]

Id have to lean towards "the whingers" hehe.

If i buy a new car I expect most everything to be perfect. New car smell, new parts, and perfect everything.
If they cant provide it then ill just stick to used.

The only new vehicle i have ever bought has been less than perfect so im biased.

[MITCHAY]

Second hand cars i would expect constant problems but if i was to buy a new car which had a recurring problem it shouldnt be expected. They are new ffs and yeah sure some will have a few problems but if its happening all the time id expect there would be only little patience left. Yes its a possibility but with a new car i wouldnt expect it and definately would be more ****ed than i would be with an old car as i would expect shit to be bad.

[SpoolMan]

Too many whingers, if you mod your car, it puts more stress on everything...
Your car was never built to take the extra stress of the mods that you have done...
Everyone wants to go quick, but doesn’t want to pay the price if you break something.
I wonder how many people could afford to repair there engine if they smashed a piston thru the block while racing..
(then we will hear ahh its Fords Fault they wont fix it)
I have had a few little issues, none to do with my mods..
Its Mechanical so there is the odd problem.
I wouldn't drive anything else but a Ford..

[smciner1]

Originally Posted by XRFPV8

I wouldn't drive anything else but a Ford..

What he said.

:evilsasmo

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Laminge

is it just me,

Yes it's just you Laminge, get some counselling.



Sorry mate couldn't resist

[GTPChris]

Interesting topic Gary.

Whilst automotive engineering standards are continually improving, I have to agree there is a perception that younger people of today seem to want to demand perfection more and more so than we ever did before at their age.

My Dad once said to me that we don't need Television. Back in his day, all they had was a radio and most families were lucky if they even had that!! That conversation occured roughly around the same time they introduced those bodgy old TV tennis games. Nowadays, you need the latest game console and a platinum selling game to even remotely satisfy a teenager (for 10 minutes if you're lucky perhaps). Despite the variety available today, I believe consumers are becoming more and more critical, demanding and cynical with regards to new technology.

Ah well....I guess that's what drives competition and continous improvement.

Chris

[loxxr6]

Is it an ever growing mentality, or is it that the younger generation are buying new cars, - or having them purchased for them - and that the oldies just have come to expect certain faults?

Yeah , some people prob just need to chill out and try and approach their dealerships a little differently when they have probs.

For those that do, there's always the Dept of Fair Trading/MVRIC etc (NSW) that can handle anything that needs to be escalated.

However its not unreasonable to expect a new car to be problem free. As far as I'm concerned, if the dealer makes a decent effort to fix the problem then thats a good start.

[gtfpv]

well i think its not really the fault with the car. its the fact that you dont know whos going to fix it . human error at the factory means a fix with a risk of human error ,and who cops the stress the person who bought the car. shit happens , but the fact that the people fixing the fault might replace the faulty part with another faulty part, and risk error during fittment at that and things can get out of hand its like the vy ute with the gearbox change it should have been upgraded for the inconvenience it caused. couple this with the fact that people have other problems in life as well and you will find most problems are caused by other people doing something wrong for you. like building . or misdiagnosing something, etc etc, a lot of it is just plain unnecessary. also i dont recall problems with xb falcons when new . some new cars have worse things than these cars as in steering . vibration , engine and transmission smoothness, tell me if i'm wrong because i was young when the xbs came out and i wouldn't really know.

[Steffo]

I knew a guy who worked at a certain Ford dealership in Sydney (won't say which one)... and from what he told me.. I don't know if I'd ever use Ford service. If you took in a remotely cool car to be serviced, they'd spend more time having fun in back streets with it then actually fixing it.. this applies moreso for cars like XR6 Turbo and XR8.

That same dealership also neglected to change the oil in my dad's old AUIII Forte and he gave the service manager a good talking to and never serviced it there again. He drove it for nearly 2 days with no oil in the engine, and was, well, shocked when he checked it one night after hearing what sounded like valve chatter all day. On a 40,000km old car.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Steffo

He drove it for nearly 2 days with no oil in the engine

Hi Steffo, i know you cop a bit of stick here for your posts, but that one is a shocker..
A car engine would be lucky if it lasted 5 minutes without oil in the engine..
2 days sheesh never mate...
lets move on and stick to the topic..

[Steffo]

It had oil, but it was dangerously low. Sorry for the exagguration. It probably did enough damage though, ever since then the engine became an oil burning, oil leaking pig.

[MITCHAY]

Regardless of whether the oil is to be changed you should check it. I always do and its not hard to do it either. This means im sure that its in there and dont have to worry about it. I mean yes you should have the absolute guarentee that it has been changed but its better safe than sorry. I went to one mechanic that used 20W 50 in my car when it should of had 15W 40. When i switched mechanics i immediately noticed the difference. Dont go through the oill as much as i used to, warms up quicker. I wouldnt go to the dealerships for servicing with the exception of the new car servicing and warranty. Ive been goin to Ultratune for a year now and had no probs.

[XRQTOR]

I was extreamly pleased with my cars delivery but am extreamly dissapointed with the car's faults. I love the car and i love driving it but the problems i have had with it shouldn't exist with a new car which is why im dissapointed.

Another little thing that ****ed me off tonight was i went to pop the bonnet to show a bloke at work and couldn't find the bonnet release. Gone, nothing there no cable nothing. Car had new sensors put in the accelartor yesterday and the bonnet popped when i dropped it off as it was up when i left. Now there's nothing.

I paid $5o,ooo odd for the dam thing and the stalling issue still isn't resolved. Admittedly not as bad as it was but it still shouldn't surge then just die while sitting still, or pish the clutch in and watch the revs die to nothing. 2 cv's and an axel, whole new diff after being told it was the tyre's but the diff was ****ed, new sensors in the accelerator. Pedal only travels about 2 inches now and feels slower through the rev range. A god awfull grinding noise in the steering which they couldn't find yesterday, only here and there but loud enough for everyone to stare when it does it. The mech at the dealer has heard the car do it when on a test drive for the diff complaint and said he has never heard a car do that. The leather has pulled out of the top and bottom of the gear knob. Very very noisy (Squeeking) suspension, i thought it was because it has been lowered but a mate now has the same car and his does it to.

If i bought a cheap shit honda you'd expect some problems but not this many in a 5ok + car.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Regardless of whether the oil is to be changed you should check it. I always do and its not hard to do it either. This means im sure that its in there and dont have to worry about it. I mean yes you should have the absolute guarentee that it has been changed but its better safe than sorry. I went to one mechanic that used 20W 50 in my car when it should of had 15W 40. When i switched mechanics i immediately noticed the difference. Dont go through the oill as much as i used to, warms up quicker. I wouldnt go to the dealerships for servicing with the exception of the new car servicing and warranty. Ive been goin to Ultratune for a year now and had no probs.

I checked mine to find there was not a drop on the dip stick, put nearly 3 liters in and it's using a fair amount of oil costantly.

Thats not to say there wasn't any in there at all either.

[Yaw]

[QUOTE=paul7v7]I agree with what you say Gary. People need to think about the issues mods are going to cause to a car that wasn't originally intended to have them. However these days I think people are more wanting to put the blame on someone else and not be accountable for their own actions.

QUOTE]


Here, Here,
As most of you know I work in the insurance industry. You would be amazed at the number of calls we get to say we never posted a renewal to a customer when they have changed address without telling us and blame us for not having a crystal ball or even more stupidly relying on a Australia post mail foward to be 100% correct. At best a mail foward service is only going to get 60% of your mail to you. But alas, its not the customers fault for not letting us know. Its incredible how stupid the whole thing is, its this exact mentality that "its someone elses fault" that makes insurance so high in premium but these same people that will not take responsibilty for a simple change of address will be the first to whinge when thier premium goes up.

[Racecraft]

Originally Posted by Laminge

I don’t know, is it just me, or are we as Ford buyers the hardest critics on both the product and delivery method.


What are peoples thoughts?

Is it an ever growing mentality, or is it that the younger generation are buying new cars, - or having them purchased for them - and that the oldies just have come to expect certain faults?

I agree with Doc, the emergence of car forums allow people a medium to vent any gripes.
Forums are great because you can get things off your chest that in most cases if you were to air such views in public or complain to the relevant parties it would get you nothing but frustrated.

As far as Ford buyers being overtly harsh, I don't think so, I think it is the trend with most consumer/ supplier businesses these days.

AS to the younger generation, I think it is more the realitity nowdays with quality control, Australian Standards, compliance to codes etc as the 'standard' in most businesses. The flow down is that we as a consumer have a right to expect a good product, when it isn't we are disappointed, angry and sometimes bewildered.

Doesn't matter if its a car or a kettle with the increased quality of manuacturing processes, technology and overall complaince standards and the popularity of forums as a place to 'voice' the good and the bad, I can only see it becoming 'worse'..

[loxxr6]

Here, Here,
As most of you know I work in the insurance industry. You would be amazed at the number of calls we get to say we never posted a renewal to a customer when they have changed address without telling us and blame us for not having a crystal ball or even more stupidly relying on a Australia post mail foward to be 100% correct. At best a mail foward service is only going to get 60% of your mail to you. But alas, its not the customers fault for not letting us know. Its incredible how stupid the whole thing is, its this exact mentality that "its someone elses fault" that makes insurance so high in premium but these same people that will not take responsibilty for a simple change of address will be the first to whinge when thier premium goes up

.

100% agree. I too work in insurance and I have never had a renewal go missing (or have my friends). Its all to easy for people to put the blame elsewhere rather than down to their own stupidity when something goes wrong.

Ive been goin to Ultratune for a year now and had no probs.

I use them as well for servicing on occasion but even they're not that reliable. I've had run ins with them too but I guess they did fix things eventually.
I've used

[RED_EL_XR8]

The common theme I see in all these whiney threads is the maniacal rant, it usually begins with a genuine complaint and degenerates to a list of 27 items like #24: Dust found on passenger side dashboard after only 3 months.

The ranting tone of these threads generally shows the poster's total lack of negotiation and inter-personal skills. Resolving any problem requires effort from both parties. If one side is foaming at the mouth and jumping up and down then it unlikely they are ever going to get resolution.

I wonder how many of these whiners bother to put thing down in writing. Forward a quick letter to the dealer principal or sales manager when repairs were incomplete or greasy prints were found etc. That plastic rattle in your dash may be the bane of your existance, but do you honestly think its even noticed amonst the 100's of other cars going through the same department.

Its very much an attitude. Most of us have the public present in some part of our jobs, how would/do we react when some one comes into our workplace ranting & whining? Pay them lip service walk behind the petition and spiral an index finger towards the right temple in the "we've got another one" gesture.

Present (in writing) a reasoned factual arguement and you will get results. Escalate your complaint if necessary but be realistic, I doubt your letter of disgust about the failure to fix your drivers door rattle will ever make it to "Tom Gorman" even if thats who you've addressed it to. If you complaint warrants that level of attention it will get there but its is going to be scanned by a lot of sets of eyes before it does, and there are lots of waste bins and patronising customer reply templates just waiting for the nonsense.

Dealers vary as do the staff within that dealer, find a dealer with a good service manager and sales staff who follow up and you've struck gold. These guys will do whatever possible keep you happy and win return sales. The reality is this is often not the case, you are dealing with a business and no-one is going to give you parts and labour unless you present a good case. Even the less attentive dealers I have encountered have eventually responded and resolved problems to my satisfaction. This on one occasion involved supply of a new replacement vehicle authorised by the US and the Australian National Sales & Marketing Manager. (Wasn't a Ford btw)

Mod your car you take the responsibility for those mods! I find it contemptable that some here are proposing flashing back an edit after they lunch a drivetrain. This is purely and simply fraud.

Thrash the living ring out of your car and likewise expect failures, and sorry to the claimants that these are "performance cars". Reality check here guys, it may not help any mid life crisis hearing that these are better performing variants of good family/touring cars they are not built as track or strip racers, you probably could not afford them if they were.
Want a road registered racer then buy a Porshe Carrera R something!, but you may be dissapointed to know that Porshe have possibly the worst warrantee satisafaction rating possible.

Steffo when you have actually purschased a new car or two (or even some late model used cars) you may be in a better position to acurately judge whether a bucket load of additional consumer legislation is required. It may not effect you now but those of us buying may not want to pay for another load of government compliance.

Like you laminge I've had a gutful of the complaints, or more so the way complaints are presented.

Want to whine how you dont like Fords anymore and you'd rather buy a Skoda? Go tell it to someone who cares or at least someone who'll listen.

Ford build an excellent product, it can always be improved and calm reasoned feedback can help that occur. Problems can will and are resolved for those wh make the effort. Not happy with that get over it.

Want to rant?, Sell the thing! Buy a Pulsar! Go to their forum and rant there! No better still leave the Pulsar guys alone and go catch a bus.

[XRQTOR]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

The common theme I see in all these whiney threads is the maniacal rant, it usually begins with a genuine complaint and degenerates to a list of 27 items like #24: Dust found on passenger side dashboard after only 3 months.

Well seeing as the car had the 5,oook service only 3 weeks before i dont think it's right a brand new car should be using such a large amount of oil.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by XRQTOR

Well seeing as the car had the 5,oook service only 3 weeks before i dont think it's right a brand new car should be using such a large amount of oil.

Um, Yeah! And how does this relate to the paragraph quoted. you just deleted another bunch of stuff from your reply and that is my point.

If you have an oil issue then discuss the oil issue, but all these threads all I see is my car uses oil, and the seat squeeks, and the boot rubber doesn't line up, and, and, ................more ands,.............and. The whiney nature of these threads is why there is little or no sympathy.

As you said in your deleted paragraph your dealer has gone out of his way to resolve your issues. Work with him it'll resolve issues a lot more quickly.

The oil issue you mention has been brought up several times, and I think some of the other complainants were hoping to whip it into an LS1 type scare. Its never happened, I dont deny you have a problem but these problems are isolated, time has proven that.