Give a kid a chance

[BENT_8]

Weve all heard Smokin Joe recently tell us that the key to home ownership is getting a good job, well thats fair enough, but what if no one will give a kid a chance.

My eldest Son is 16, in yr11 and is currently in the process of finding suitable work experience to satisfy the requirements.
He has been working for a fast food chain for 2.5 years, has completed Cert3 in retail and is half way through an Electrical engineering course at TAFE.
He already has his White Card.

Whilst he enjoys working in the retail sector, his future goal is to join the Australian Airforce and work with electrics.

With this in mind, we set about looking for somewhere that he can complete his work experience that relates to his career path.

So far he has tried...and im happy to shame

Jcar
Dick Smiths
Middys Electrical
Elizabeth Auto Electrics
Rexel Electrical
MM Electrical
L&H Electrical
Bunnings

To name a few, and he cant even get past mentioning work experience.

He hasnt got his 'P's yet so needs somewhere local or accessible by public transport.

No one wants to know about free labour from a 16yr old with qualifications and ambition.

So how does a kid get a chance at a future when local companies wont even let them complete free work experience.

Does anyone know of any electrical companies in SA that would give him a go.

[raised by monkeys]

have you tried local businesses, like not franchises? Electrician that's does domestic work? Refrigeration mechanic? people who put up solar panels? instrument tech's

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

have you tried local businesses, like not franchises? Electrician that's does domestic work? Refrigeration mechanic? people who put up solar panels? instrument tech's

Yep, i googled electrical retailers and electrical services, clicked on the map and have set about contacting every one starting from the closest to home and working out from there and so far no one will even listen to his qualifications, as soon as he mentions work experience he gets told no go.

He has been ringing from School under the guidance of his Teacher and is getting no where.

It really is disheartening as he is a well respected kid at school and TAFE, works hard, has gone about setting a career path whilst earning a bit along the way and no one is even willing to listen.

Honestly, what chance does a kid have at earning a decent future if people wont even let him work for free to pass his High School qualifications.

[GT2]

In Sydney?

[FGX335]

Doesn't the Air Force do apprenticeships so people get their trade? I always found the recruitment guys were easy to talk to and explain what was available.

It reminds me of people who pay $10K to do a course to be a hairdresser, all to be disappointed when they still have to go through it all again because the course isn't worth a pinch of goat ****.

I'm sure I must be missing something, as it just sounds too easy, but I thought that was how they attracted people to come work for them?

[Feathers]

It could be something to do with liability and insurances. I remember when I was looking at work experience in school, there were certain places that we were not allowed to go to.

Originally Posted by FGX335

It reminds me of people who pay $10K to do a course to be a hairdresser, all to be disappointed when they still have to go through it all again because the course isn't worth a pinch of goat ****.

My friend did that. Is now fully qualified senior, but with no experience, no one will hire her. Or they want to hire her as a 1st year, which they can't legally.

She's now given up on hairdressing and has gone to uni to be a teacher.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by FGX335

Doesn't the Air Force do apprenticeships so people get their trade? I always found the recruitment guys were easy to talk to and explain what was available.

It reminds me of people who pay $10K to do a course to be a hairdresser, all to be disappointed when they still have to go through it all again because the course isn't worth a pinch of goat ****.

I'm sure I must be missing something, as it just sounds too easy, but I thought that was how they attracted people to come work for them?

He isnt ready to go in to the Air Force yet, he's only 16 and still completing his High School Certificate.
He is trying to organise 'Work Experience' and would like to do it in an area that is linked to his career path.

He did a weeks work experience last year with his current employer as part of his yr10 studies, but wants to dedicate this years work experience to his chosen field.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by GT2

In Sydney?

Adelaide.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Feathers

It could be something to do with liability and insurances. I remember when I was looking at work experience in school, there were certain places that we were not allowed to go to.

More than likely, but consider this.
Last year he cooked chicken in hot oil for customers consumption for work experience, yet he cant sell a toggle switch at Jaycar.
What would be more hazardous?

I get that its probably an insurance issue, but fair dinkum thats pathetic.

[FGX335]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

He isnt ready to go in to the Air Force yet, he's only 16 and still completing his High School Certificate.
He is trying to organise 'Work Experience' and would like to do it in an area that is linked to his career path.

He did a weeks work experience last year with his current employer as part of his yr10 studies, but wants to dedicate this years work experience to his chosen field.

Ah, gotcha!

All I can recommend is that he is persistent, it's a valuable life lesson. My first job was applied for on an Employment Application, which I made a few mistakes on. I recreated it on the computer, including their logo (made manually), printed it in colour, and they were so impressed, I got an interview immediately. This was back in 1997, so it was much more impressive than it would be these days.

It's not easy to do, but he will get there. It's just a kick in the balls until he does, but he will be thankful for that opportunity.

[raised by monkeys]

work experience is more about putting students into a work place and getting used to taking orders from a boss and being punctual, primarily, before looking at a chosen industry. Have you tried the yellow pages and look at even handyman services?

I work for an NGO and work a lot with schools and so forth. In Whyalla, the local yr11/12 high school has a pre-industry classes where maths and English are centred around heavy industry, and students complete a majority of pre vocational education they would do at TAFE, before heading into an apprenticeship. If he is yr11, and he isn't planning on going to uni id suggest getting him to TAFE for an apt with their student counsellor and looking at education pre voc training in his chosen field (i.e. electrical). He may be able to do a mid year entry. This is much more proactive than messing with work experience through school and a kick start to a career. However, get him started on Learner driving, because if he were to complete pre voc at TAFE and have an opportunity at an apprenticeship, after pre voc, the next thing potential employers will look for is a drivers license. Just my 2c. Good luck to your lad

[stockNAfairlane]

I've worked for Dickies and Jaycar back in the day, can't remember ever seeing any work experience person there. When i was in high school 10ish years ago no one would take us for any decent jobs all of them claimed insurance issues. From memory i had to go to a rundown italian restaurant and wash dishes for two weeks, everyone else was in the same boat unless they knew someone somewhere personally that would take them on. Work experience is basically bs these days.

Also we were told it was about experiencing a workplace (any workplace) rather then anything to do with what you actually wanted to do. Dealing with a boss is not like dealing with a teacher. Truth be told as a customer i wouldn't want a probably uninsured 16 year old kid anywhere near anything electrical of mine and its more than likely if he even did find a placement at an electricians all he would be doing is sweeping floors, regardless of ability.

Could be an idea to ask where the kids from last year got accepted and go from there, this will give you an idea of the sorts of businesses that even entertain the idea of a work experience kid.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

work experience is more about putting students into a work place and getting used to taking orders from a boss and being punctual, primarily, before looking at a chosen industry. Have you tried the yellow pages and look at even handyman services?

I work for an NGO and work a lot with schools and so forth. In Whyalla, the local yr11/12 high school has a pre-industry classes where maths and English are centred around heavy industry, and students complete a majority of pre vocational education they would do at TAFE, before heading into an apprenticeship. If he is yr11, and he isn't planning on going to uni id suggest getting him to TAFE for an apt with their student counsellor and looking at education pre voc training in his chosen field (i.e. electrical). He may be able to do a mid year entry. This is much more proactive than messing with work experience through school and a kick start to a career. However, get him started on Learner driving, because if he were to complete pre voc at TAFE and have an opportunity at an apprenticeship, after pre voc, the next thing potential employers will look for is a drivers license. Just my 2c. Good luck to your lad

He is currently half way through Cert2 in Electro Technology as a VET subject at TAFE, has his "L"s and has completed 20+ hours of his compulsory 75, he cant sit for his 'P's until early next year.
He has done work experience in other fields and understands what it is for.

He simply wants to get some hands on experience in the general field that will help with his progression to full time employment when School finishes.
He has retail and basic electrical componentry knowledge and thought it would give him an advantage in finding experience in the electrical retail industry.

[Feathers]

They should have a careers advisor at the school who would be able to help as well. He can't be the first to want to do this.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Feathers

They should have a careers advisor at the school who would be able to help as well. He can't be the first to want to do this.

Yeah, thats whos been over seeing the process and still no luck.

He can go back and do another stint with his current employer, but he wants to expand his skill set and knowledge away from his current job description.

[stockNAfairlane]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

More than likely, but consider this.
Last year he cooked chicken in hot oil for customers consumption for work experience, yet he cant sell a toggle switch at Jaycar.
What would be more hazardous?

I get that its probably an insurance issue, but fair dinkum thats pathetic.

Sell the wrong electrical component, somethings on fire or someones electrocuted. Cook the chicken wrong and someones on the toilet for a few hours. But i see no reason he can't be behind the counter or shadowing another staff member, i would've appreciated the extra help that's for sure.

[BENT_8]

I really do appreciate the interest and thoughts guys.

Its just frustrating that people pick on the younger generation, yet heres a good kid with his future planned, been working since he turned 14, has chosen his subjects to give him the best shot, yet he'll probably end up doing work experience in a take away.

If Smokin Joe wants kids to make a go of it, perhaps he should offer incentives to businesses to give kids a go before they hit the pavement at the end of yr12.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by stockNAfairlane

Sell the wrong electrical component, somethings on fire or someones electrocuted. Cook the chicken wrong and someones on the toilet for a few hours. But i see no reason he can't be behind the counter or shadowing another staff member, i would've appreciated the extra help that's for sure.

Hey, fair enough, i understand that completely. But like you said, shadowing another employee wouldnt hurt.

[stockNAfairlane]

Instead of calling the stores for Jaycar and Dickies try calling the head office instead, stores sometimes have zero power to do anything at all and if you explain your sons genuine love of electronics, how you've been a customer x amount of years etc you might have better luck.

[Uncle Niceguy]

Why don't you get him to do some work experience at RAAF base Edinburgh? plenty of electronics there with the Orions, not sure it'd be classified work experience per`se but you can always call up the particular department there and ask, and then when he turns 16 1/2 you can start the application process and by the time he is 17 will be in the RAAF. furthermore they would also have life support fitters there too (they maintain everything a pilot wears) witch is very cool and interesting (picture wearing a flight helmet). Hope this helps and good luck.

[my_gxl]

I did work experience in the army at Bonegilla, then joined at 17, back to Bonegilla-qualified-served 13 years...

Long story short-get a job in the civi world first. you don't want your first 'real world' job experience to be in the military world.

Maybe once he's 25 or so, and still want to go in, then go for it.

(I tried to get into recruiting near the end, so I know how it works. I took my own leave to do work experience at the recruiting centre, and I was still denied for the transfer-it happens everywhere).

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Uncle Niceguy

Why don't you get him to do some work experience at RAAF base Edinburgh? plenty of electronics there with the Orions, not sure it'd be classified work experience per`se but you can always call up the particular department there and ask, and then when he turns 16 1/2 you can start the application process and by the time he is 17 will be in the RAAF. furthermore they would also have life support fitters there too (they maintain everything a pilot wears) witch is very cool and interesting (picture wearing a flight helmet). Hope this helps and good luck.

Ironic you should mention that, his cousin is a Life Support Fitter and after listening to him is when he decided that the Air Force was his goal.

I must admit, i hadnt even thought of trying Edinburgh and its only 5 minutes from home.
Thanks for the advice, i will get him to make contact and see where it goes.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by my_gxl

I did work experience in the army at Bonegilla, then joined at 17, back to Bonegilla-qualified-served 13 years...

Long story short-get a job in the civi world first. you don't want your first 'real world' job experience to be in the military world.

Maybe once he's 25 or so, and still want to go in, then go for it.

(I tried to get into recruiting near the end, so I know how it works. I took my own leave to do work experience at the recruiting centre, and I was still denied for the transfer-it happens everywhere).

Great advice, cheers.

This is something he has considered, he has spoken about taking a 'gap year' at the end of yr12 so he can top his bank account up working full time with his current employer before he enters the Force.

[Uncle Niceguy]

haha no worries bent 8 the only reason l know all this is because i've been going through the application process for the last couple months for the navy though not the air force, (wanna be a Combat systems operator) only other advice l could give is to try and narrow the field down alot, electronics is a very broad term in the defence force and before he knows it he'll be doing nothing but maintenance as an Aircraft maintenance engineer witch is boring, and a very small civi world profession especially when he could operate radar or be an Air traffic controller, witch is way cooler and SAR organisations will always be around!

[Franco Cozzo]

Same deal here, ditched the trade, went back to school, got a few certificates.

Don't get the interview, everyone asking for 3-5 years experience, no entry level jobs.

About to open my own shop now in my trade.

Mind you I got to round 2 of worksafe inspector intake last year, but they didn't want trade qualified people as they wanted generalists, and I'm too aggressive apparently

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I really do appreciate the interest and thoughts guys.

Its just frustrating that people pick on the younger generation, yet heres a good kid with his future planned, been working since he turned 14, has chosen his subjects to give him the best shot, yet he'll probably end up doing work experience in a take away.

.

Mate, its great that hes keen, but I doubt that employers are picking on him any more than an older worker or any other demographic-hes obviously not what they are looking for right now.
As for work experience, employers have the same work cover liability and responsibilities for a person "donating" their time as one on payroll. I haven't started a job recently that hasn't had at least a full induction day and paperwork signing, its hardly worth it for someone who may only be around for a week. Some places wont do WE anymore.
If his resume isn't getting any cut through, he may be better off treading the boards, asking to talk to store managers in person, so they can see that hes serious, my first job at 17 was just this, walk in, talk to the boss-right place, right time. Or talk to your circle of friends to get the word out.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

Mate, its great that hes keen, but I doubt that employers are picking on him any more than an older worker or any other demographic-hes obviously not what they are looking for right now.
As for work experience, employers have the same work cover liability and responsibilities for a person "donating" their time as one on payroll. I haven't started a job recently that hasn't had at least a full induction day and paperwork signing, its hardly worth it for someone who may only be around for a week. Some places wont do WE anymore.
If his resume isn't getting any cut through, he may be better off treading the boards, asking to talk to store managers in person, so they can see that hes serious, my first job at 17 was just this, walk in, talk to the boss-right place, right time. Or talk to your circle of friends to get the word out.

Cheers, but he's not looking for paid work, he has a job and been in it for 2.5yrs.
This is just work experience in his chosen field and i dont think they are picking on him personally, its just that the general concensus is to avoid giving a young bloke an opportunity, not necessarily my Son, but any kid trying to get a feel for the work place.

[zilo]

Too many people out of work competing with him me thinks is the problem?

[Ratmick]

Originally Posted by zilo

Too many people out of work competing with him me thinks is the problem?

Possible but if he is willing to put in the hard yards for nix and experience only then I'm thinking that's not the reason.

I enlisted in the Army in Adelaide in the early 80s, if the Air Force is anything like the Army then they're normally pretty keen to those who show a bit of get up and go. Rather than approaching the guys at Edinburgh it may be better to have an informal chat to one of the Air Force recruiters in the City as they may be able to give him an inside track, or at least offer some suggestions. Given the situation with the guys that had plans to run around Army bases in Sydney shooting and causing general mayhem you'd need to treat their initial resistance to the idea with respect though, they may not be initially that keen. However if you offer to get a Police Check and at least show some wish to join at a later date then they may be more amenable.

I wouldn't bother with Dick Smith, those guys are only good for selling cables, the days when they used to sell things to Electronics hobbyists (like myself) have long gone. Even the guys at Jaycar trying peeing in your ear (although the girls in the city store in Melbourne are quite pretty in a geeky Goth sort of way). Personally I find the smug 'I know shiploads more about this stuff than you' attitude of some of the guys in these stores to be a PITFA, if they're so good how come they're the ones behind the counter, and why aren't they out there with their brilliance earning the big bucks?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Ratmick

if they're so good how come they're the ones behind the counter, and why aren't they out there with their brilliance earning the big bucks?

Cause the smart dude is back in China somewhere who lives in a 1 bedroom apartment with 500 other smart dudes getting a bowl of rice for 6 months pulling 25 hour shifts 8 days a week.