'False Speed Readings Used to Issue Tickets'

[balthazarr]

Interesting article in The Age today:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/fa...1007-gn8k.html

'False speed readings used to issue tickets'
STEVE BUTCHER
October 8, 2009

A VICTORIAN police officer has alleged that some colleagues have corruptly used old readings from laser and radar devices to issue speeding tickets against unsuspecting motorists.

Senior constable Afrain Asaf claimed yesterday in court she had seen other police officers retain previous readings and show them to new ''offenders'' who queried their speed. She said she had been working with colleagues when she saw the practice, described as ''retained readings'', happen a ''few times''.

She told her barrister, Serge Petrovich, some colleagues had issued notices based on an estimation of the speed and had used a correct reading kept from the previous person intercepted.

She appeared in Ringwood Magistrates Court to plead not guilty to a charge of exceeding the speed limit after she was detected by a colleague from the traffic management unit (TMU).

Senior Constable Brett Shenton told the court he did not issue an infringement notice after detecting her speed at 79 km/h in a 60 zone in Burwood at 9.05am on August 16 last year. But he was directed to five days later by acting Inspector James Cooke after a verbal direction by Senior Sergeant Kim Pluim.

Mr Petrovich said she alleged this decision was partly motivated by a history of complaints about her alleged treatment she had made against the TMU office.

This included her claims that while on sick leave, a dead rat with a note that read ''If you f---ing come back we will kill you'' was left at her front door.

The Iranian-born officer said she had been bullied, ostracised and suffered derogatory remarks about her race, weight and sex life. Mr Petrovich said there had been continuing conflict at the TMU - made up of Whitehorse, Boroondara and Monash units - that ''manifested'' itself against his client.

Senior Constable Shenton told Mr Petrovich he knew one senior officer felt there was a political agenda to remove non-Whitehorse members from the TMU. He agreed he had heard ''retained readings'' being discussed among some colleagues, but said it was ''just banter and joking'' and was not something ''anyone seriously considered''.

Senior Constable Asaf, who estimated her speed at between 60 and 65 km/h, said she had mentioned retained readings at work, but was told to ''pretty much mind my own business''.

She said she was also scared of being further bullied or ostracised, but was now prepared to co-operate with the Office of Police Integrity and the police ethical standards department.

In finding the charge proved and fining her $200, with $42 costs, without conviction, magistrate Lionel Winston-Smith said serious allegations had been raised, but he accepted the evidence of Senior Constable Shenton. Senior Constable Asaf is expected to appeal.

I don't know about the other allegations - but the allegation made about the retained readings is certainly interesting.

Even more interesting is that the charge was upheld.

There's another thread on here about being entitled to your day in court, which is true. But you're definitely fighting an uphill battle, at least where traffic infringements are concerned.

[mcnews]

Good on her! Hope she sticks it to them.

[Deech]

The gist of her allegation is that she was aware of this happening, but only decided to bring this to light after it was her licence/wallet in jeopardy?

If true, I'm sympathetic. To her, however, I have no sympathy whatsoever.

What's that saying about Karma?

[divine_afg]

Has happened to me and my mates twice when I was in the car with them we had the car on cruise control on Monash Freeway .... Wut wut caught speeding ! WTF

Just don't get me started ...... aaaaaargh

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by Deech

The gist of her allegation is that she was aware of this happening, but only decided to bring this to light after it was her licence/wallet in jeopardy?

If true, I'm sympathetic. To her, however, I have no sympathy whatsoever.

The report doesn't make it clear whether she knew before or after she got caught... I suspect you're right though, she knew about it and only brought it to light once it directly affected her.

The thing is, how can you possible prove that the officer that pulled you over didn't get a reading, but used a previous reading? It becomes a they say/you say situation - no matter how credible you are, they're always going to err on the side of the police - if only because they can't allow a precedent to be established allowing others to avoid infringements.

Do detection devices have a timestamp? I guess if you had a GPS log of your drive, you can try and match up the times, but if the time is not set accurately on the detection device...?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

no matter how credible you are, they're always going to err on the side of the police - if only because they can't allow a precedent to be established allowing others to avoid infringements.?

Only in lower courts before stupid magistrates that deal with petty crap all day. Go higher and they seem to take the law more seriously.

[Deech]

Double post

[Deech]

Originally Posted by balthazarr

The report doesn't make it clear whether she knew before or after she got caught...

Senior constable Afrain Asaf claimed yesterday in court she had seen other police officers retain previous readings and show them to new ''offenders'' who queried their speed. She said she had been working with colleagues when she saw the practice, described as ''retained readings'', happen a ''few times''.

Unless the events she alleges happened today, my point about her being previously aware stands. Imagine of one of the fines were contested in court and the 'retained reading' were presented by the Police officer attending as evidence. That's perjury.

The thing is, how can you possible prove that the officer that pulled you over didn't get a reading, but used a previous reading?

You can't. That's why situations such as these are referred to as a Breach of trust.

[burnz]

arnt they supposed to allow you to view your number plate on a laptop of said offence??
RE: the lidar records (vid) the offence

[Sorted]

Do you really think the Police need to make up speeding fines...........

Try doing the Speed Limit and see how many cars over take you - take it to the next level and do the Speed Limit on the Freeway.............

Drive through a School Zone or Construction Zone

[Deech]

My previous post could do with some editing, my apologies balthazarr. The date I bolded is the one she alleged it in court, rather than when the fine was issued. I still contend that if she did personally see evidence being falsified (as she stated), I doubt this only happened after she herself was the victim.

[divine_afg]

Originally Posted by Sorted

Do you really think the Police need to make up speeding fines...........

Yes they Do, Yes they Have and Yes they Will

[divine_afg]

Originally Posted by burnz

arnt they supposed to allow you to view your number plate on a laptop of said offence??
RE: the lidar records (vid) the offence

They don't have anything like that to back themselves up with, its just your words and against theirs.

They will only show you reading which is pointless anyway. They are Police and they excercise their Privileges well.

[Bobman]

This doesn't surprise me at all as I know that it has happened out there in the past.

Most commonly this would happen where a speed trap is set-up, say in an industrial 50 km/h zone or near school areas, etc. A reading can be obtained without pulling anyone over but then still be used to 'show' drivers who may or may not have exceeded the limit upon interception.

Has happened to people I know and the reading shown to them was definitely incorrect to the actual speed they were doing. At least one took it to court and won, but lost more in time off work, e.t.c.

[The G6ET Spot]

This practice is nothing new.

Police have done this for years to reach their quota that they allegedly don't have.

[EDManual]

Doesn't surprise me.

And you cant beat cops in court when the Govt puts their full weight behind not setting any precedents.

Have tried and gave up.

Had a cop radar me when not speeding in a rain storm. Bucketing down. We even talked about it at the time, me and the cop (rain that was). Took it to court as these particular radars are not allowed to be used in the rain, (had the cop admit it in court) even had rain radar images, rainfall data from 2 spots signed from BOM from that very time in the very place it so happened (within a few km), and still couldnt get off. Judge said can you say at that very point in time at that exact point it was raining? I had the cop almost completely red faced, was great, but he kept lying, Cop said it wasnt raining... so. I have no respect for law.


Funnily the cop before the case tried to ask me what my defense saying he could drop the charge if it was something like this. I didnt want to tell him :-)

If I took it further I would have gotten it dropped as I probably could have before. I hid my defence to try my luck and show the cop for what he was. Had good nods from people in the room, even the police prosecuter wanted to give me tips on the next case! Saying its a joke. I didnt take it further.

Found out from a lawyer freind what I had to say. Cant remember now but there is some fancy legal way to say that it "must have been" raining given my evidence. I didnt put it forward properly it seems.

Judge protected the legislation.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Good on her! Hope she sticks it to them.

She lost!

[Bobman]

Unless you're Darryl Kerrigan or Erin Brokovitch, you have no hope against Government and Corporations.

[ltd]

Try Dennis Miralis; he's taken on the RTA for years and seems to always win.

[divine_afg]

im suprised non of the undercovers in this forum haven made any comments hehe

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by divine_afg

im suprised non of the undercovers in this forum haven made any comments hehe

It isn't a bad idea for the police to register here, imagine all the defects they could dish out on projects and gather registration numbers to hunt down cars in specific areas you know for certain have defectable mods, make peoples lives hard.

[Bobman]

There are plenty on here and some are enthusiasts just like us, but when it's used to gain intelligence then we should all have a problem with that - especially if we haven't committed any crimes.

[XR6_190]

Yep, threads like this always have a long lifespan.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

Yep, threads like this always have a long lifespan.

What's the point of your post? This is not a cop-bashing thread mate.

What about public-bashing threads?

[burnz]

can ppl get access to the video from the dash cam??
may help in some situation.

[fangq]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Doesn't surprise me.

And you cant beat cops in court when the Govt puts their full weight behind not setting any precedents.

Have tried and gave up.

Had a cop radar me when not speeding in a rain storm. Bucketing down. We even talked about it at the time, me and the cop (rain that was). Took it to court as these particular radars are not allowed to be used in the rain, (had the cop admit it in court) even had rain radar images, rainfall data from 2 spots signed from BOM from that very time in the very place it so happened (within a few km), and still couldnt get off. Judge said can you say at that very point in time at that exact point it was raining? I had the cop almost completely red faced, was great, but he kept lying, Cop said it wasnt raining... so. I have no respect for law.


Funnily the cop before the case tried to ask me what my defense saying he could drop the charge if it was something like this. I didnt want to tell him :-)

If I took it further I would have gotten it dropped as I probably could have before. I hid my defence to try my luck and show the cop for what he was. Had good nods from people in the room, even the police prosecuter wanted to give me tips on the next case! Saying its a joke. I didnt take it further.

Found out from a lawyer freind what I had to say. Cant remember now but there is some fancy legal way to say that it "must have been" raining given my evidence. I didnt put it forward properly it seems.

Judge protected the legislation.

It would have been an interesting line of inquiry to question the officer involved as to how many infringement notices he issued on the day , and whether he would feel comfortable about you contacting the other drivers as to the weather conditions at the time.

cheers
Steve

[GT-E]

You can ask to see the speed measuring device (radar/LIDAR) and you can also ask to see the last ticket they wrote. Neither pieces of information are required to be produced by the cop, but is could help your defence if they deny you.

I have challenged a cop over the readings and asked to see the previous fine, only to be given a warning and sent on my way.
I was sure they had retained the reading and was using it to get his quota.
Most drivers are stupid and will blindly accept the cops evidence and pay the fine.

[dom_105]

Very, very concerning.