Another dies of carbon monoxide poisoning

[The Yeti]

why is this such a big problem this year

http://www.hawkesburygazette.com.au/...-to-keep-warm/

This year it seems to quite a large problem, it seems every time I turn on the news another person or people has passed away because they have used either an outdoor heater indoors or simply taken coals in to a sealed area to keep warm

How do we stop this?

[Bluehoon]

Stop the boats... LOL

[The Yeti]

but that's just it "new Australians" don't appear overly represented in this situation

I was at my local Bunnings a few weeks back and there was a guy asking about using his chimanea inside. this guy would have been mid 40's anglo background no noticeable accent

that was 1 week after this indecent in the very same council area as the bunnings incident http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-woman-...08-ghipex.html

[XPfalcon170]

It could be something that has been going on every winter, just that the media is putting a spot light on it this year maybe.

[danzvtil]

A customer of mine owns some rental houses in a low socio area with a high Afghan population, these guys don't use the kitchens, they all cook on a gas camp stove on the lounge room floor, its simply an education issue.

[Yellow_Festiva]

A few weeks ago I was in a restaurant in Mt Lewis (those who have never heard of it can replace Mt Lewis with Bankstown) and in the middle of the eating area was a gas patio heater - the kind Bunnings sell for around $180.

You could see all the diners looking at it with raised eyebrows...

Should have got a pic lol.

[Squalo]

It could simply be a case of people struggling with power and gas bills, and trying to stay warm on the cheap.

I live by myself in a smallish two bedroom townhouse, am away from home 12 hours per day, I don't leave anything on standby - and my power bill is still smashing me every quarter. I just rug up at night (yes it does get cold in SE QLD) rather than pay for heating.

[mik]

it is an easy fast way to get warm if you have no heating, i remember years ago being in a caravan that was like an ice box in cold weather, i turned on all the gas stove burners and nodded off to sleep, ahhh so warm ............................... woke up some time later everything in the van was red hot, sweating profusely....... could hardly breath,
you only have to do something dumb once to come unstuck, i was a bit lucky, come to think of it, done quiet a few dumb things in my youth, perhaps my first name should have been lucky .

All jokes aside, i reckon poverty probably plays a big role in a lot of these deaths, and i cant speak for the other states but this year melbourne/vic has been very consistent with the cold weather, probably not the most freezing temps , but the weather has been very very stable and consistently on the cold side,
i am privileged to have a vulcan gas heater in the lounge that heats the whole place like nothing else, i feel very sorry for those losing their lives, doing it tuff and freezing....

[Charliewool]

My Sis and BiL spend a lot of time in their garage.. Great setup, couch, big rear projection tv, beer fridge etc... AND lately a lpg gas patio heater. They thought it fine because they have the rollerdoor that goes to the backyard open, and the heater standing just inside that doorway. With the recent really cold weather and biting wind, they've taken to having rollerdoor half way down.. BiL came home 2 Saturdays ago to find my Sis deeply asleep on the couch and music blaring. Sensing how stuffy it felt, he opened both rollerdoors and tried to get her up.. She was semi-conscious, and incoherent.. Ambo came, put her on oxygen and took her to emergency where she spent 3 days. Very VERY close call and patio heater turfed!
Thank Christ the bro in law came home when he did!

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

I don't think we need to do anything, it's evolution at work, the problem will sort itself out in time.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

My Sis and BiL spend a lot of time in their garage.. Great setup, couch, big rear projection tv, beer fridge etc... AND lately a lpg gas patio heater. They thought it fine because they have the rollerdoor that goes to the backyard open, and the heater standing just inside that doorway. With the recent really cold weather and biting wind, they've taken to having rollerdoor half way down.. BiL came home 2 Saturdays ago to find my Sis deeply asleep on the couch and music blaring. Sensing how stuffy it felt, he opened both rollerdoors and tried to get her up.. She was semi-conscious, and incoherent.. Ambo came, put her on oxygen and took her to emergency where she spent 3 days. Very VERY close call and patio heater turfed!
Thank Christ the bro in law came home when he did!

Why turf the patio heater?? It's not the heaters fault they are perfectly safe when used as intended.

[BENT_8]

I walked into my old mans unit one afternoon and theres a 9kg gas bottle on the lounge room floor with a camp heater screwed to the top, flat out and him sitting in front of it wrapped in a blanket.
He had a Rinnai gas heater and a wall mount reverse cycle A/C but he heard at his local over 50's club that the 9kg option was cheaper.
I said of course it would be, you'll only fill the 9kg a few times before it kills you.

Unfortunately this belief is common amongst older people.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

My Sis and BiL spend a lot of time in their garage.. Great setup, couch, big rear projection tv, beer fridge etc... AND lately a lpg gas patio heater. They thought it fine because they have the rollerdoor that goes to the backyard open, and the heater standing just inside that doorway. With the recent really cold weather and biting wind, they've taken to having rollerdoor half way down.. BiL came home 2 Saturdays ago to find my Sis deeply asleep on the couch and music blaring. Sensing how stuffy it felt, he opened both rollerdoors and tried to get her up.. She was semi-conscious, and incoherent.. Ambo came, put her on oxygen and took her to emergency where she spent 3 days. Very VERY close call and patio heater turfed!
Thank Christ the bro in law came home when he did!

Mate your sister is a VERY lucky lady

Carbon monoxide can kill you quickly.

It's colorless, odorless, tasteless and non-irritating. If you dont notice the early signs of exposure or the concentration is very high, you can lose consciousness and be unable to escape the danger.

They say that the indoor air level for Carbon monoxide should be below an average of nine parts per million for any eight-hour period, and below 25 ppm for any one-hour period. One ppm means one part of Carbon monoxide per million parts of air. (That's stuff all)

Carbon monoxide prevents oxygen in the blood from being carried throughout the body, causing asphyxiation. Carbon monoxide remains in the body for a long time - the half-life of is about five hours.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I walked into my old mans unit one afternoon and there's a 9kg gas bottle on the lounge room floor with a camp heater screwed to the top, flat out and him sitting in front of it wrapped in a blanket.
He had a Rinnai gas heater and a wall mount reverse cycle A/C but he heard at his local over 50's club that the 9kg option was cheaper.
I said of course it would be, you'll only fill the 9kg a few times before it kills you.

Unfortunately this belief is common amongst older people.

**** not trying to bad mouth your dad, but the Rennai heater if its on Natural Gas will be a lot cheaper to run than the 9kg BBQ bottle job and if the Rennai runs off bottled LPG (like mine at home) its still cheaper than a BBQ refill (Though $95 change over is alot more to outlay I guess)

But I think your hitting the point, the underground education (word of mouth within their peers) of the elderly, immigrant and lower socioeconomic in our population could be letting these people down.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Why turf the patio heater?? It's not the heaters fault they are perfectly safe when used as intended.

Turfed out of the garage... And back where it should be.. Outdoors!

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Turfed out of the garage... And back where it should be.. Outdoors!

That's the right spot for it, I need one on my back patio as well..

Originally Posted by The Yeti

**** not trying to bad mouth your dad, but the Rennai heater if its on Natural Gas will be a lot cheaper to run than the 9kg BBQ bottle job and if the Rennai runs off bottled LPG (like mine at home) its still cheaper than a BBQ refill (Though $95 change over is alot more to outlay I guess)

But I think your hitting the point, the underground education (word of mouth within their peers) of the elderly, immigrant and lower socioeconomic in our population could be letting these people down.

$95 for a large gas bottle is cheap, we pay $127 out here and I have to pick it up as we live out of town. We use it for cooking and water heater and we only use about 2 bottles per year on average with a family of four.

Heating is reverse cycle ducted A/C cheap enough to run, if you can't afford to run a basic heater you probably wasting money somewhere else IMO.

I find that people who can't afford their basic bills generally never seem to run out of smokes, alcohol or drugs, and they appear to eat plenty of take away foods. I love the current affairs stories about how families can't afford to feed themselves or pay rent yet the whole fanily is massively overweight and they generally holding a smoke in their hand when being interviewed....

[The Yeti]

Cripes I'm western Sydney we pay $95 off speedy gas and because we are a new client we get $10 off each cylinder for the first 10 exchanges from there so its $85 we also got our heater through one of their "recommended retailers" and get another $10 off a cylinder for 10 exchanges (cant add them together though) the heater was about $80 more expensive than the cheapest of that model I found, but these guys had the LPG one in stock and my mrs was cold so well you know happy wife happy life and all that

[aussiblue]

I have both gas and carbon dioxide alarms in my house as I use an unflued gas heater and a gas cooktop. Several separate alarms for each but I see you can now buy ones that detect GAS and CO2.

I had a close call with the gas many years ago. I was home alone and put the cooktop on for a cuppa and went into my lounge room to watch TV and unusually for me fell asleep. I woke up dreaming of pretzels and a strange urge for some pretzels. Turns out the gas top had not ignited and natural gas has a vaguely pretzel like smell (well to me anyway). When I went to search for pretzels in the pantry I realised what had happened (started choking on the gas) . The cat was in the kitchen unconscious. I quickly turned the gas off and opened all the doors and windows (being careful not to turn any light switches on or off) and took the cat outside with me until the gas had all cleared. The cat was always a bit strange after that and it initiated my purchase of GAS and CO2 detector/alarms.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

I find that people who can't afford their basic bills generally never seem to run out of smokes, alcohol or drugs, and they appear to eat plenty of take away foods. I love the current affairs stories about how families can't afford to feed themselves or pay rent yet the whole fanily is massively overweight and they generally holding a smoke in their hand when being interviewed....

I can assure you my old mans issue wasnt affordability, it's because he was as tight as a fishes ******** and wouldnt pay for supply charges. The 9kg probably did cost more, but in his mind he was spending every scent on warming himself.
For the record he only smoked when he had a drink, gave up drinking socially 15yrs ago, and wouldnt know what take away was.

[blueoval]

All I can say is stay safe guys and keep your loved ones in check weekly if not daily. It's been a flamin cold winter so far, so rug up as much as possible.

With us, we tend to have the heater on just long enough to take the chill out of the air and then turn it off. Put extra clothes on etc. It also helps if you have draught seals fitting to all of your external doors so heat doesn't leak out and you aren't heating up the suburb for free.

Opening up your blinds to windows that face north and west (in the afternoon) during the day can help get in priceless sunshine and heat into rooms which can reduce the need for powered heating.

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I can assure you my old mans issue wasnt affordability, it's because he was as tight as a fishes ******** and wouldnt pay for supply charges. The 9kg probably did cost more, but in his mind he was spending every scent on warming himself.
For the record he only smoked when he had a drink, gave up drinking socially 15yrs ago, and wouldnt know what take away was.

My Mums getting the same in her old age, bought a battery/ac powered radio but insisted on only running it on battery power "because electricity is SOOO expensive", the 14 bucks a year she spends on buying D batteries for it could run it for many years, or the 200 bucks she has spent on solar powered outside lighting to avoid using the patio light FFS
I guess the bottom line is to keep an eye on your elderly family or neighbours.....

[Stefan]

The problem is that Bunnings, Masters et al sell these cheap Chinese imported outdoor heaters, BBQs for two fifths of stuff all. The elderly or not too bright people, see a cheap way of heating and end up killing themselves in the process.

I doubt it was an issue years ago as these type of heater weren't so cheap or so readily available years ago.

Same reason people didn't die of ICE addiction 20 years ago...there was no ICE to die from.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

My Mums getting the same in her old age, bought a battery/ac powered radio but insisted on only running it on battery power "because electricity is SOOO expensive", the 14 bucks a year she spends on buying D batteries for it could run it for many years, or the 200 bucks she has spent on solar powered outside lighting to avoid using the patio light FFS
I guess the bottom line is to keep an eye on your elderly family or neighbours.....

My Great Grandma was doing the same thing except walking around at night time with a torch, then ended up falling over a few times.

[neptune blue]

Staying warm is getting expensive, just as trying to see in the dark and drinking water from a tap has become . An out door heating device could be seen by some as a cheap and quick way to get warm, not realising the concequeses of using a device that doesn't vent carbon dioxide safely

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

...and natural gas has a vaguely pretzel like smell (well to me anyway)...

Way back when I worked with SAGASCo I learnt natural gas has no smell, so they add Ethyl Mercaptan as an odorant so humans can detect a gas leak by smell.

NG having no smell is why they used to take canaries down into the mines...if you dug into a NG reserve you wouldn't know it, but with the canary having a smaller body mass the NG would overcome the canary before a human...canary dies, everybody out of the hole.

Ethyl Mercaptan is stupidly potent...they once spilled a teaspoon amount at the Cavan gate station and the call centre lit up with complaints of gas leaks from Virginia to Tea Tree Gully.

Used to be lots of pensioners nearly come to harm from trying to heat their small houses by lighting their gas oven and then using rolled up towells as "door snakes" to keep the heat in and drafts out.

We all do stupid things from time-to-time...I will put my hand up and say I was rediculously crook once after fishing for squid at Second Valley. We fired up a generator, lowered a flood light over the water and in a couple of minutes had caught a stupid amount of squid. Rolled out swags on the beach, too ****ed to light a fire - cooked some calamari over a citrenella candle. All of us were violently ill - most likely the citrenella, but could also possibly be attributed to too much Jamesons. I'm thinking bit of both.

[2011G6E]

It's a sneaky killer as well...happens all to often with heaters in houses, motorised equipment being used inside wells or big tanks, etc.

Sadly it does mostly affect lower income people or new arrivals...the story above about Afghan refugees using gas cookers in the lounge room is a prime example. This wouldn't have been a problem back home in a tent or a breezy well aired desert village house, but do it in a modern western dwelling that has good window and door sealing and little natural ventilation and you could be in real trouble. That's not being racist, that's just stating a fact of cultural difference.

[GASWAGON]

Geez it sounds like some of these products need to have warning labels on them 'DO NOT USE INDOORS'.......Or do they already have them?

I remember at my parents house we used to have an LPG indoor gas heater in the extension/living room......I used to light that sucker up and have it roaring all night long while watching rage on ABC while drinking beers.

Never really had any problems with monoxide fumes though???

[marty351]

Reminds me of kerosene heaters. Very effective, but the stench of the fumes and stinging eyes and throat would make you air it out.
Commonsense would dictate if you burn something inside, you have adequate ventilation.
Who smokes in their cars with the windows closed?