The choice? XR6 HP or VCT

[Casper]

A number of years ago when I first joined the forums I was almost laughed at (in some cases it wasnt even almost) for buying an XR6 VCT. IT was called everything from slow, a grandpa's car, overweight, unmoddable to a complete waste of time and should never have had an XR6 badge etc etc.
Lately however there seems to be a bit of change in attitude. There has even been people that have stated they wish they had gotten a VCT over the HP.. for whatever reason.

So, just for curiosity sakes, lets see what preferences are out there.

"Given your choice between an AU XR6 VCT or XR6 HP (model, options, colour and transmission of your own choice) what would you get. No other choices, no other cars. VCT or HP?..... and WHY?"


I fully expect the HP to actualy win, make not bones about that, but the VCT was close to ignored just 2.5 years ago so it will be interesting to see if that has changed.

I chose the VCT. I really dont know why (other than I own one).

I guess its good to feel you are getting something out of a car that no-one thought possible, and I love it when something new and exciting is found, its like the effective mods for the VCT are only recently being found, I guess its a feeling of being part of the developemnt of it, even though you arent really...

Well, I just read the dribble I posted, it doesnt make much sense, but anyway...

This is going to make one hell of an argument....

[clontarf_x]

I voted VCT because I own a VCT Sprint, and to tell the truth I didn't know there was such a thing as a HP until I found these forums lol.

One day I will have to have a look at the spec sheets for these cars so I can see exactly whats going on

VCT powah!

[jabba]

Simple. The VCT is better technology and will benefit more from an edited then the HP.

[JC]

I voted VCT because I used to have one.

[stiddy]

i cant vote im undecided...
i have an XR6 HP(which i love), goes like the clappers but its like every other Intech falcon out there, basic forte has the same engine..
whereas the VCT is something a little more 'special'.. and is better technology..

[HLC]

what is the difference?

/stupid :|


i vote VCT cause my mums 'lane is a VCT.

[jonbays]

The HP for me.

The VCT is too fat.

The HP is truer to the hot six Pacer, Charger, torana ethic.

For me the VCT was too little Fairmont Ghia not enough XR8.

[Mechan1k]

I vote HP ... have heard others with VCTs that had problems with aftermarket tunability though.

Just couldn't get the figures/times the HP could with aftermarket products. one of the guys on FordMods just had so many problems with getting power out of his XR6 VCT.

[buickman]

Since I own a Fairmont Ghia with the VCT I would have to go VCT being as its Fords ultimate final development on the SOHC 6 cyl mtr.

If I really wanted to make more power I would go the V8.

Originally Posted by Mechan1k

one of the guys on FordMods just had so many problems with getting power out of his XR6 VCT.

While I agree, the VCT is harder to find the 'right' product that works, but one person with one bad experience shouldnt deter anyone...

Find the right products, and the VCT will respond as well with mods as the HP will, its just more "picky" py:

[SVR73]

VCT rules in my book and not just because I have one

I'm referring to AU1

The HP has less power and torque, didn't have IRS or LSD, bodykit was not standard, no power windows whereas VCT has them all round.
The bodykit with bi plane spoiler is the best bodykit on an AU
When I bought it, all it had was el cheapo lubricants and auto adaptive trans was in economy mode
I was dissapointed with it
After replacing brakes and extremely happy with the package BTW , putting some top shelf lubricants in it , switching to BP ultimate (SA) and optimax when in VIC and finding out about the 3 mode auto trans and putting it into power mode, I am over the moon

Sure it's only 182kw and 400nm with the 2.5 nice sounding exhaust on board and that might seem like nothing to most but believe me you put your foot down and it doesn't take long to get to 5,500 rpm in each gear and to 150 km/h +
Good enough for me, sure a 300 + KW car would be great if I could afford it but fact is I cannot and would never sell my AU to get a BA or BF anyway

No speed limiter and the 3.46 ratio equals good fun
The handling is the best part about the VCT, the spoilers create some downforce and the suspension is so well set up that it's a hoot. I can take some corners at a crazy speed and it sticks no worries
If I go into a corner too quick and it starts to push out, a little more steering input and it darts back online
The HP's with watts link I have tested cannot compare

JMM race series headers and streetfighter cams I have been told are great for VCT's

Originally Posted by SVR73

streetfighter cams I have been told are great for VCT's

Do you know of anyone that has done this, and more to the point, does it work? I just thought cams for the VCT were a "forget about it" type mod...

[Casper]

Originally Posted by SVR73

Sure it's only 182kw and 400nm

Um, that would be 172kw and 374Nm

Originally Posted by SVR73

and the 3.46 ratio equals good fun

3.45 diff actually

Originally Posted by SVR73

JMM .......... streetfighter cams I have been told are great for VCT's

They would.... if JMM made a streetfighter cam for the VCT.... which they dont. Just the DEV5 VCT cam exists from JMM

[jonbays]

I know of one VCT with a regrind cam and disabled VCT in Sydney and it does give more power but not as much as you would like.

With any VCT engine you can just put in a regrind and it will run exactly as well as it would in a standard engine providing you disable the VCT.

Of course its no longer a VCT engine really.

[HP Dude]

Originally Posted by SVR73

VCT rules in my book and not just because I have one

I'm referring to AU1

The HP has less power and torque, didn't have IRS or LSD, bodykit was not standard, no power windows whereas VCT has them all round.
The bodykit with bi plane spoiler is the best bodykit on an AU
When I bought it, all it had was el cheapo lubricants and auto adaptive trans was in economy mode
I was dissapointed with it
After replacing brakes and extremely happy with the package BTW , putting some top shelf lubricants in it , switching to BP ultimate (SA) and optimax when in VIC and finding out about the 3 mode auto trans and putting it into power mode, I am over the moon

Sure it's only 182kw and 400nm with the 2.5 nice sounding exhaust on board and that might seem like nothing to most but believe me you put your foot down and it doesn't take long to get to 5,500 rpm in each gear and to 150 km/h +
Good enough for me, sure a 300 + KW car would be great if I could afford it but fact is I cannot and would never sell my AU to get a BA or BF anyway

No speed limiter and the 3.46 ratio equals good fun
The handling is the best part about the VCT, the spoilers create some downforce and the suspension is so well set up that it's a hoot. I can take some corners at a crazy speed and it sticks no worries
If I go into a corner too quick and it starts to push out, a little more steering input and it darts back online
The HP's with watts link I have tested cannot compare

JMM race series headers and streetfighter cams I have been told are great for VCT's

Besides Casper's corrections above, I'd also add that the bi-plane spoiler and body kit were a $3000 option on ALL AUI XRs. I'll repeat, just in case the message didn't get through again: BODYKIT WAS NOT STANDARD ON AUI XR6VCT, XR8 or XR6HP. It was available on ALL models as an extra, so I don't understand why you included this as a difference. Where do you get your info from???

ONCE AGAIN (see other thread on AU IRS), AUI HP's CAME STANDARD with LSD!!!!! Understand now???

Less power and torque? True, but much less weight as well, and in acceleration, a HP is faster than VCT. Also brakes were the same on all models, and let me tell you, as someone who has punted the AU XR8 AND HP hard, that extra weight makes a big difference on braking at the limit!

Admittedly, on bumpy roads, the VCT would be a better proposition with IRS, however, on a racetrack, the HP would kick its ****. Less weight, and the Watts Linkage provides better handling on the smooth surface of a racetrack. That's why Coon raced a HP over a VCT: it's a much better track car.

In short, if you want a weekend track car, then a manual HP would be perfect.

If you want a comfortable car you can use everyday and drive hard on public (read bad) roads, the IRS VCT is a better proposition.


I love them all, and would add a VCT to the other two in my garage in a heartbeat!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by HP Dude

Besides Casper's corrections above, I'd also add that the bi-plane spoiler and body kit were a $3000 option on ALL AUI XRs. I'll repeat, just in case the message didn't get through again: BODYKIT WAS NOT STANDARD ON AUI XR6VCT, XR8 or XR6HP. It was available on ALL models as an extra, so I don't understand why you included this as a difference. Where do you get your info from???

ONCE AGAIN (see other thread on AU IRS), AUI HP's CAME STANDARD with LSD!!!!! Understand now???

Less power and torque? True, but much less weight as well, and in acceleration, a HP is faster than VCT. Also brakes were the same on all models, and let me tell you, as someone who has punted the AU XR8 AND HP hard, that extra weight makes a big difference on braking at the limit!

Admittedly, on bumpy roads, the VCT would be a better proposition with IRS, however, on a racetrack, the HP would kick its ****. Less weight, and the Watts Linkage provides better handling on the smooth surface of a racetrack. That's why Coon raced a HP over a VCT: it's a much better track car.

In short, if you want a weekend track car, then a manual HP would be perfect.

If you want a comfortable car you can use everyday and drive hard on public (read bad) roads, the IRS VCT is a better proposition.


I love them all, and would add a VCT to the other two in my garage in a heartbeat!

I agree with all of the above too. If I wanted a track racer... the HP is the pick for sure.

Guys, I dont want this to turn into a VCT V's HP war, thats not the point. I want it to be a "IMHO... I prefer the " type thread and your reasons. Thats all.

I will say I'm stunned at the result so far. Given the dislike of the VCT by the vast majority just 2.5 years ago I was hoping that the VCT would get 25% of the vote, that would have made me VERY happy. I certainly didnt expect it to be basically 50/50 at this point.

[loxxr6]

HP for me but I'm not too fussed.

Other than the VCT engine and IRS there's nothing else I can't add on aftermarket anyway.

With the AU edit's ability to take care of any hassles previously associated with modding the VCT, it does make the VCT more appealing however. I can't see it being something that that's important enough to warrant an upgrade tho.

[Stav]

I like both.VCT XR6 independant rear sux for heavy loads but launches much harder than leaf springed cars.
The hp can accept a cam without too much dramas.Im undecided.

I really believe that not enough developement has occured on the vct side of things. I think that with a bit of tinkering the vct can produce the bigger numbers and power while having top torque.

[Mark351]

Originally Posted by SVR73

VCT rules in my book and not just because I have one

I'm referring to AU1

The HP has less power and torque, didn't have IRS or LSD, bodykit was not standard, no power windows whereas VCT has them all round.

I thought HP's had LSD until the mid-AUII update (mine was early AUII, there has LSD...) and it was certainly optional after that.

Also, don't HP's have front-only power windows - rather than no power windows at all? Rears were optional also.

VCTs cost more to get those extras, so it figures really.

Less HP/torque yes - because they gave the HPs had the stock forte exhaust setup, while VCTs got a better exhaust and a slightly better tune.

When Darryl Coon was beating AU V8s and SS Commodores, he was doing it in a HP. When they used an XR6 for Targa Tasmania, it was HP.

I don't necessarily agree there's been a change in attitude regarding VCTs... To paraphrase Casper - I think more are buying them second-hand from Grandpas and are sticking up for what they drive. :hihi:

I'm sure if I owned a VCT, I'd stick up for that version too, but's mines HP, and I'm happy with what I've got.

[HP Dude]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

I thought HP's had LSD until the mid-AUII update (mine was early AUII, there has LSD...) and it was certainly optional after that.

Also, don't HP's have front-only power windows - rather than no power windows at all? Rears were optional also.

VCTs cost more to get those extras, so it figures really.

Less HP/torque yes - because they gave the HPs had the stock forte exhaust setup, while VCTs got a better exhaust and a slightly better tune.

When Darryl Coon was beating AU V8s and SS Commodores, he was doing it in a HP. When they used an XR6 for Targa Tasmania, it was HP.

I don't necessarily agree there's been a change in attitude regarding VCTs... To paraphrase Casper - I think more are buying them second-hand from Grandpas and are sticking up for what they drive. :hihi:

I'm sure if I owned a VCT, I'd stick up for that version too, but's mines HP, and I'm happy with what I've got.

See Casper's and my own reply to SVR73 ;)


As far as the power windows issue is concerned, the very first HPs came without front power windows, but this became a running change on AU series 1 (as did height adjustable seatbelt retractors on the B pillar). I'm sure Casper will be able to tell us when the change actual occurred, but the last of the AU 1 HPs came with front power windows. Our HP has winder front windows, and I joke that it saves weight!

[Casper]

The very first HP's were winders. By 1999 they were power window. I'd say only the first 4 months worth got the winders.

As for a change of attitude, I think there most certainly has been. Its more than people sticking up for their own VCT's, there has been a definate lack of bagging of them by HP owners and some pretty complimentry things said of them. I fully accept that the engines are harder to mod and that, at this point, they are not as powerful in top spec (such as a Dev5) but, even with this, they are no longer said to be unmoddable and are certainly taken a bit more serious as a performance car (at least in comparison to the HP). That to me is a huge shift in attitude.

[loxxr6]

No front power windows for me. Neither the adjustable seat belts (well not standard anyway...i do have them now).

[Mark351]

I don't understand the point of bagging VCT being a HP owner, except only as a light-hearted jibe. In the end, they're both AU XR6s, and non-AU fans don't give a rats **** either way I bet, so we should be sticking it up them together!

[cArSiK]

I asked myself this question in january this year and my answer was VCT - so thats what i purchased.

What is the good of power without control?

James

[Mark351]

Less control = more fun?

[xr8 007]

Well i had to decide start of this year on VCT or HP. Besides the extra features the VCT has i simply decided on the power factor and ignoring the weight factor!!! OH and CASPERS article's had heaps to do with it as well!! Knowing that someone has hit the right notes with their VCT is a great confidence booster!!!

[HP Dude]

Originally Posted by cArSiK

What is the good of power without control?

James

I find that an interesting statement given your signature! ;)


FWIW, the HP on smooth tarmac handles as well (if not better) than the IRS models: hence the racetrack advantage. However, on bumpy roads, I'd rather be behind the wheel of an IRS XR.

In regards to oversteer, the HP is a beautifully progressive power oversteerer. There's absolutely no lack of control; and if there is, it's because the guy behind the wheel is a knob who can't drive.

To be honest, I've found the HP more comfortable/progressive in oversteer than the IRS XR8. This again relates to that racetrack advantage that a HP has over the IRS XRs.

They way I look at it, the XR models complement each other. Each has different strengths and weaknesses. I think they complement each other well:

XR8 and XR6 VCT: Fun in the twisties where the surfaces are crap or wet.

XR6HP: Fun and faster than the VCT on the racetrack (and pretty much as quick as an XR8 even with the power and torque deficit).

Again, I like all three.

[Bucknaked]

No idea. I went to the car yard and asked for a futura, and walked away with an XR6. I was told that the car had VCT, and other goodies. No idea what any of what the salesman told me was about, I just went with mine cause it had mags, a sunroof and leather. Felt comfy and looked good. So we bought it.

[buickman]

[QUOTE=useless]I like both.VCT XR6 independant rear sux for heavy loads



Not as good as the cart springs in that area. But can tow car trailers with family sized car in it for long distance OK