2012 Falcon updates?

[Road_Warrior]

2012 is coming. And I'm not talking about that poxy movie either or some Mayan prophecy.

I'm talking about what Ford has in store for the Falcon.

Given that the FG's 2010 "update" is going to be little more than Euro IV compliance and a few tech and trim upgrades, this leaves the door wide open for a major mid-cycle revision a-la the AU-BA change. I would speculate that this car is going to be the 'Huntsman' upgrade that was being worked on when the FG was released. Or something similar to it anyway. It stands to reason that, with the impact of the GFC and dramabombs being thrown around about FoA's future at the time, that significant model changes were put on the back burner. All of that crap has died down now of course.

So what do you think we can expect?

Weight loss?
Restyled front and rear?
Upgrades to the I6?
Implementation of ZF's 8 speed auto in premium models?
Ford's SYNC technology and voice control?
Adjustable rear seat headrests?
A workable solution for the spare tyre in e-gas variants?
E-gas available in more engine variants?
A revised IRS?
A sportwagon?

Personally I would like to think that all of the above would be under consideration - however the new Territory when it comes out January/February will give us a pretty good insight into what the FG's successor will (and won't) have. Naturally, the Coyote and EcoBoost programs will have well and truly been implemented by this stage.

Whatever it is will be, I would bet that the car's styling and major changes are locked in by now (or close to it).

Discuss/speculate/argue about it in this thread. Keep it sensible mmk

[jpd80]

The most sensible time to do a face lift is when the new Territory and EB I-4 Falcon are released,
all of the engine, body and trim changes on the line could be done at the one time...

[FPV GTHO]

If youre looking at a 2008-2015 model run, you want to cut that in the middle which would be early 2012. As jpd80 says though, there's gunna be a big update for 2011 mechanically so why not upgrade alot of the package then. If you dont upgrade before the all new model again though thats a long time, so could they be running 3 major packages for the cars timeline?

[irlewy86]

Barra to go alloy with super dooper low friction spray bore liners. Cam torque actuating Di-VCT and electric steering.

Am I dreaming?

I think weight loss will probably happen, be a cold day in hell that a Sportswagon see's the light of day though.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Barra to go alloy with super dooper low friction spray bore liners. Cam torque actuating Di-VCT and electric steering.

Am I dreaming?

I think weight loss will probably happen, be a cold day in hell that a Sportswagon see's the light of day though.

The I6 needed neither an Alloy Block, nor Direct Injection to make Euro V in a Lab. If it continues, expect neither.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The most sensible time to do a face lift is when the new Territory and EB I-4 Falcon are released,
all of the engine, body and trim changes on the line could be done at the one time...

In the past though, they haven't had the capacity and the financial resources to do it like this. Unless the "update" is due much sooner and they have the cash. I'd wager that the Territory update by itself is going to take care of $500-600 Million by itself - great if they can do it all at once but I can't see it myself. Or is it a case of - better off taking a big burn for just one financial year (because of the R&D costs) instead of 2 smaller ones for 2 consecutive financial years??? I don't know the answer.

Originally Posted by irlewy86

and electric steering.

Aha I knew there was another one I forgot. EPAS.

[MONSOON]

Here is what I think will happen

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Weight loss?unlikely
Restyled front and rear?minor
Upgrades to the I6?minor
Implementation of ZF's 8 speed auto in premium models?NEVER
Ford's SYNC technology and voice control?maybe
A workable solution for the spare tyre in e-gas variants?unlikely
A sportwagon?NEVER

and as for electric steering, I hpoe that never happens, un less someoone figures out how to make it feel decent

[Nikked]

No chance of a weight loss or sports wagon

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Nikked

No chance of a weight loss or sports wagon

Ditto ...

[Brazen]

I think a lot of feature improvements: LED lighting, HID headlights, SYNC, keyless entry and start, radar cruise control. I cant see massive changes to the mechanical package (suspension, trans, engines) as it is pretty good as is.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

In the past though, they haven't had the capacity and the financial resources to do it like this. Unless the "update" is due much sooner and they have the cash. I'd wager that the Territory update by itself is going to take care of $500-600 Million by itself - great if they can do it all at once but I can't see it myself. Or is it a case of - better off taking a big burn for just one financial year (because of the R&D costs) instead of 2 smaller ones for 2 consecutive financial years??? I don't know the answer.




Aha I knew there was another one I forgot. EPAS.

I remember Burela indicating that just because Euro IV was happening did not necessarily mean
that the deadline was the best time to introduce a lot of changes. I think he was tipping his hand
by saying Ford wanted to group as many changes as possible instead of doing things twice over...

[Gaz]

Originally Posted by MONSOON

and as for electric steering, I hpoe that never happens, un less someoone figures out how to make it feel decent

The new 3-series BMW's are fantastic in their steering feel.

[Dave3911]

Illuminated steering controls??? ;-)

[sxckevo]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think a lot of feature improvements: LED lighting, HID headlights, SYNC, keyless entry and start, radar cruise control. I cant see massive changes to the mechanical package (suspension, trans, engines) as it is pretty good as is.

+1 on all that

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think a lot of feature improvements: LED lighting, HID headlights, SYNC, keyless entry and start, radar cruise control. I cant see massive changes to the mechanical package (suspension, trans, engines) as it is pretty good as is.

I think you might be right. Feature and tech improvements/additions and a front/rear facelift (think 2010/11 Taurus) and that will be it - the basic mechanical package will be unchanged because its almost spot on now.

Originally Posted by jpd80

I remember Burela indicating that just because Euro IV was happening did not necessarily mean
that the deadline was the best time to introduce a lot of changes. I think he was tipping his hand
by saying Ford wanted to group as many changes as possible instead of doing things twice over...

I remember Burela saying that as well. The mid-cycle refresh may come much sooner then...

[smoo]

No one has mentioned diesel... is this because it is confirmed to be in the Falcon around that time? Ford are always late to bring the goods to the table. A TD is long over due for the coon, don't even start on the Territory, by then it maybe too late, just like the Mitsi 380 (I'm not suggesting a similar fate, just pointing out it's 2-3 years behind the times)

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by smoo

No one has mentioned diesel... is this because it is confirmed to be in the Falcon around that time? Ford are always late to bring the goods to the table. A TD is long over due for the coon, don't even start on the Territory, by then it maybe too late, just like the Mitsi 380 (I'm not suggesting a similar fate, just pointing out it's 2-3 years behind the times)

There will not be a TD falcon in the near future, the Ecoboost 4 is arriving instead.

[madmelon]

As previously mentioned, I'd hope to see cam torque actuated DIVCT implemented on the I6. It would further improve low rpm torque and reduce emissions due to its ability to go to nearly full advance at very low revs, unlike the current oil pressure operated system.

Weight savings are always welcome and almost always being considered but often require big changes of direction for big improvements. Probably shouldn't expect anything major unless they start dealing with plastic/composite/alloy panels which is extremely unlikely.

EPAS is on the rise and Falcon (or whatever...) will probably end up with it eventually but who knows when.

Some time ago I saw a beautiful design for a modular LPG tank. It could be made in virtually any size and a variety of interesting shapes due to its construction method. It's primarily a flat, wide cell like the petrol tank in older wagons. I think this is the only possible way to solve the LPG tank issue but first, the entire fuel system would probably have to be relocated further towards the CoG of the car and away from any rear impact zones... Would love to see it on Falcon one day but considering it's probably patented and therefore expensive, I doubt it'll happen.

[Resurrection]

The updates are Euro IV compliance, a 4 cylinder engine and LPG. After that there are no known updates for the Falcon.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by madmelon

As previously mentioned, I'd hope to see cam torque actuated DIVCT implemented on the I6. It would further improve low rpm torque and reduce emissions due to its ability to go to nearly full advance at very low revs, unlike the current oil pressure operated system.

Is it enough of a benefit over the current DIVCT to justify the investment? But, from memory it lowers parasitic losses as well as further maximising low-end torque. Both of which are good for economy. A 1-2% consumption/economy benefit.

Originally Posted by madmelon

Weight savings are always welcome and almost always being considered but often require big changes of direction for big improvements. Probably shouldn't expect anything major unless they start dealing with plastic/composite/alloy panels which is extremely unlikely.

I can see that they might go to alloy IRS. Just as they went alloy for the fron suspension. Other gains will be hard to make mid cycle.

Originally Posted by madmelon

EPAS is on the rise and Falcon (or whatever...) will probably end up with it eventually but who knows when.

Ford want EPAS in 85% of vehicles by 2012. Coyote 5.0L has EPAS in the US, but won't have in Aus for the time being. But it would be likely to gain it once the rest of the Falcon range did.

If Chrysler can spend $300M USD to build a factory to fit 8spd ZFs to their range of vehicles, I can't see why it couldn't be on the cards as long as it physically fitted. Otherwise expect more DSG/Twin Clutches like will be fitted to Eco-boost Falcons.

Stop-Start tech could be added too. Particularly if the 4.0 goes to DI.

[Road_Warrior]

Highly unlikely the I6 will get direct injection. I think the 2012 model stands a greater chance of getting alloy control arms for the IRS than the I6 getting DI (the R&D investment would almost be the same). And then I doubt Ford would commit to spending the money to upgrade that IRS when in 2014 or 2015 it will be out of production.

Parts and systems that are easily incorporated from the Ford global parts bin like EPAS and the SYNC system will more than likely get the gong.

[JutroXR8]

Listening to Marin last Thursday at a networking conferance, he said that having the right technology was the way of the future of FoA. That is why the Fiesta is jammed with so many technologies such as ipod integration, voice control, etc. So my bet would be that the 2012 Falcon will mostlikely have more gadgets, like voice control, touch screen, ipad integration, Parking Assist Technology (i.e. such as in the Lexus it shows you your trajectory), etc.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Weight loss? Not likely but would be very nice
Restyled front and rear?Not necessary
Upgrades to the I6?Not really worth it
Implementation of ZF's 8 speed auto in premium models?Wishful thinking
Ford's SYNC technology and voice control?Possible
Adjustable rear seat headrests?Handy to have, but doubt it, can't even get LED rear lights
A workable solution for the spare tyre in e-gas variants?Possible
E-gas available in more engine variants?Doubt it
A revised IRS?Not in a "refresh"
A sportwagon?Nope

I'd like to see LED tail lights, Xenon headlights for G6(E) models, improvement of interior quality (better materials and fix the driving position) and a look at better suspension/tyre package for the performance models.

[DanielXR8]

I would imagine very little. The Falcon just doesn't sell in the numbers these days to justify anything beyond the essentials. Expect the cosmetic differences will be less than BA to BF. Most work will be on improving fuel economy and keeping the car competitive until Ford work out what replaces Falcon or they get approval to reskin the car again.

Days of Falcon and Commodore getting major updates are simply over. Neither sells enough cars to justify that. New face every eight years and minor refreshes and tweaks in between will be the new norm I would expect.

Equipment tweaks and new gizmos for the cabin are the most likely outcomes. Most buyers don't care about anything under the bonnet, if it has sync for the stereo or whatever.
Dan

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Days of Falcon and Commodore getting major updates are simply over. Neither sells enough cars to justify that. New face every eight years and minor refreshes and tweaks will be the new norm I would expect.

Dan

thats been the way for the past 20-odd years!

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Nikked

thats been the way for the past 20-odd years!

Point taken.

[buggo]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

I would imagine very little. The Falcon just doesn't sell in the numbers these days to justify anything beyond the essentials. Expect the cosmetic differences will be less than BA to BF. Most work will be on improving fuel economy and keeping the car competitive until Ford work out what replaces Falcon or they get approval to reskin the car again.

Days of Falcon and Commodore getting major updates are simply over. Neither sells enough cars to justify that. New face every eight years and minor refreshes and tweaks in between will be the new norm I would expect.

Equipment tweaks and new gizmos for the cabin are the most likely outcomes. Most buyers don't care about anything under the bonnet, if it has sync for the stereo or whatever.
Dan

This is sad but I beleive your right. It has had a good run, but the Falcon is getting sick in its senior years, and there is no cure. It appears this era is ending just as I'm entering. :(

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

I would imagine very little. The Falcon just doesn't sell in the numbers these days to justify anything beyond the essentials. Expect the cosmetic differences will be less than BA to BF. Most work will be on improving fuel economy and keeping the car competitive until Ford work out what replaces Falcon or they get approval to reskin the car again.

Days of Falcon and Commodore getting major updates are simply over. Neither sells enough cars to justify that. New face every eight years and minor refreshes and tweaks in between will be the new norm I would expect.

Equipment tweaks and new gizmos for the cabin are the most likely outcomes. Most buyers don't care about anything under the bonnet, if it has sync for the stereo or whatever.
Dan

So what were the monumental things done from when the XK arrived at the dealer?

XK to XP was getting the fron suspension and automatic transmission to a point it didn't break so easily. Also engine upgrades. Stiffened the car.

XR to XY, XR was a proper upgrade with a new body, handling and engines. Good times so plenty of money spent.

XA to XC. XA was a new body on old mechanicals. XB is where the mechanicals started changing. Then the anti-pollution gear with the XC...but we got x-flow so a major engine upgrade.

XD to XF, XD new body on old mechanicals. XE got rear suspension upgrade. Engine upgrade for fuel economy (also EFI came in).

EA to EL, EA got the big upgrade...well EAII did with the new 4sp. Egine upgrades (and engine trials). The I6 had a few different options but that was with tickford being formed. EB got the V8. Ed was just refinement. EF and EL were really just outside upgrades.A/C also came standard.

AU - well IRS is a big one, VCT, complete new body, engine upgrades and weight savings. 5 different 6's 2 different V8's.

BA- FG, B series had a new front and back and roofline and much better regitity. New IRS. New manuals and Auto's. Interior electronics, DVCT, OHC V8, more safety features. FG has had a whole new reskin, upgraded engines, upgraded front suspension, weight saving and more electronics put into it.

From what I can see nothing is different from the start. Its just Ford have a smaller budget to play with, but can still make a very good car compared to countries that have 4 times the budget.

[Road_Warrior]

I for one think that a facelift will be unavoidable for the simple reason that the VE/Zeta has moved to a 6 year cycle and it will be due for revision 2012-ish - the Falcon will need some new visual mumbo to compensate.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I for one think that a facelift will be unavoidable for the simple reason that the VE/Zeta has moved to a 6 year cycle and it will be due for revision 2012-ish - the Falcon will need some new visual mumbo to compensate.

The VE update comming up is visually no more then new bumpers. The most we will see with the FG over the nex few years will be the same. Sheetmetal changes are too costly.