Holden 202 with 4.1L alloy crossflow head?

ford man xf · 14-04-2009, 09:14 PM

Did anyone watch Gasolene tonight? Did you see the guy running a 202 Holden engine with a 4.1L alloy crossflow head backwards? Anyone seen this before?

Holden people are always using Ford parts, throttle bodies, C4 autos and now heads, now we know which is the better.

And how was the guy talking up the performance and handling of the Toranas, and then the torana goes around the track with the in cabin camera, tries to keep up with the mustang and then loops it into the kitty litter on a corner!

jaydee · 14-04-2009, 09:17 PM

Don't forget the old 9 inch diff too.
Oh, and they always compare how fast a new SS or HSV is to a 35 year old GT.

KPOJ · 14-04-2009, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Did anyone watch Gasolene tonight? Did you see the guy running a 202 Holden engine with a 4.1L alloy crossflow head backwards? Anyone seen this before?

Holden people are always using Ford parts, throttle bodies, C4 autos and now heads, now we know which is the better.

And how was the guy talking up the performance and handling of the Toranas, and then the torana goes around the track with the in cabin camera, tries to keep up with the mustang and then loops it into the kitty litter on a corner!

Damien Johnson from Harrop has done that to his torana sports sedan.
He calls it a folden engine.

just found a link.

<<<<<<LINK>>>>>>

mad cow · 14-04-2009, 09:23 PM

i would love to see some pics or a link to this. sounds very interesting.

waggaclint · 14-04-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Did anyone watch Gasolene tonight?

What is this show you are talking about sounds good ive never heard of it.....

OZQUAD44 · 14-04-2009, 09:37 PM

I'm amazed that the bore spacing, head bolts, and the push rods all lined up. Not too mention water jackets, pushrod angles, rocker ratios , and all the **** about plumbing.

I wonder how it performs against a normal 4.1 X/flow? I'm guessing the 202 with its shorter stroke is happy to rev.

Just goes to show where there's a will there's a way

KPOJ · 14-04-2009, 09:37 PM

Chanel 31 on free to air tv. Just a cheap channel, get alot of small car shows.

KPOJ · 14-04-2009, 09:38 PM

Damien's engine looks very similar to a rb30.

XR2DOOR · 14-04-2009, 09:44 PM

didnt they use the 200ci cranks in their 186s too

INJECTED_250 · 14-04-2009, 09:46 PM

221 cranks

The G6ET Spot · 14-04-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

I'm amazed that the bore spacing, head bolts, and the push rods all lined up. Not too mention water jackets, pushrod angles, rocker ratios , and all the **** about plumbing.

I wonder how it performs against a normal 4.1 X/flow? I'm guessing the 202 with its shorter stroke is happy to rev.

Just goes to show where there's a will there's a way

Well from the link, it looks like it performs reasonably well with 400hp. Not bad for an N/A 6

Scott · 14-04-2009, 09:54 PM

400hp is very impressive, makes you wonder how he keeps it together.

ford man xf · 14-04-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

I'm amazed that the bore spacing, head bolts, and the push rods all lined up. Not too mention water jackets, pushrod angles, rocker ratios , and all the **** about plumbing.

I wonder how it performs against a normal 4.1 X/flow? I'm guessing the 202 with its shorter stroke is happy to rev.

Just goes to show where there's a will there's a way

He runs the head backwards, so must all line up pretty good when you do it this way.

The Yeti · 15-04-2009, 05:52 AM

whats wrong with fitting ford bits on a holden if it works great and I would do it the other way arround with out a 2nd thought.

is it really any worse than say getting some sort of after market head and using it? its just this one came out of a differnt factory

I'd like to see more on this conversion I think it would be very interesting

gravelrash · 15-04-2009, 07:19 AM

just to add another twist. The alloy crossflow head was actually designed by Yamaha for Ford to use.

LTDHO · 15-04-2009, 07:30 AM

Holden guys use C4 autos? WTF?

I'd like to see a reversed mounted x-flow head on a 202. Why hasn't this been done over the last 20 years???

Aulpgute · 15-04-2009, 09:54 AM

Was actually Honda that helped design and used to cast the first alloy head on the mk2 XD in 1980. I believe there is a bit of welding and drilling etc to make the Ford head fit the Holden block.

EDManual · 15-04-2009, 10:47 AM

400hp on a 202! That would be fantastic!! I remember a mate who had an XE manual 3.3 and it reved beautifully! Really was a nice fun drive compared to a no revs 4.1.

KPOJ · 15-04-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yeti

whats wrong with fitting ford bits on a holden if it works great and I would do it the other way arround with out a 2nd thought.

is it really any worse than say getting some sort of after market head and using it? its just this one came out of a differnt factory

I'd like to see more on this conversion I think it would be very interesting

As the saying goes "engine doesn't know its brand"

The Yeti · 15-04-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Holden guys use C4 autos? WTF?

I'd like to see a reversed mounted x-flow head on a 202. Why hasn't this been done over the last 20 years???

Yep just like ford guys using powerglides and god only knows how many holden front ends have found there way under hot rods, how many small block chevs are in rods? or holden stubb axels under early falcons?

unless your looking at whats available, and utilising it where ever possible your just a cheque book performance guy in my book

My own Chev run's a heap of parts form other brands

Kieron · 15-04-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravelrash

just to add another twist. The alloy crossflow head was actually designed by Yamaha for Ford to use.

The alloy head was an evolution of the Ford Aus designed iron head crossflow.
Honda cast the alloy head for Ford as Ford Aus didn't have the ability to cast aluminum back then.

The 221 crank was a good compromise of stroke over capacity in the Ford six block(great for turbocharging) so probably achieves the same in the 202 block which has almost the same size bore as the Ford 6.

Nikked · 15-04-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gravelrash

just to add another twist. The alloy crossflow head was actually designed by Yamaha for Ford to use.

I think you would find that ford designed it, honda cast it...

oh wait, someone beat me...

svo supporter · 15-04-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieron

The alloy head was an evolution of the Ford Aus designed iron head crossflow.
Honda cast the alloy head for Ford as Ford Aus didn't have the ability to cast aluminum back then.

The 221 crank was a good compromise of stroke over capacity in the Ford six block(great for turbocharging) so probably achieves the same in the 202 block which has almost the same size bore as the Ford 6.

It was the 221 crank in the 186 block. And it wasn't real nice when it was revved over the 5000 RPM mark constantly. Failed reguarly

Work Horse · 15-04-2009, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Yeti

Yep just like ford guys using powerglides and god only knows how many holden front ends have found there way under hot rods, how many small block chevs are in rods? or holden stubb axels under early falcons?

unless your looking at whats available, and utilising it where ever possible your just a cheque book performance guy in my book

My own Chev run's a heap of parts form other brands

Amen Yeti, whatever works! I have owned cars from different camps and IMHO it's about having fun with cars not brand loyalty.

So back in the day I played around with 186 Holden engines a lot. In the mid 80's I finally got one putting out about 320Hp and running 14's over the quarter in an EH. That's nothing now, but back then I was quick

A 400Hp+ red motor n/a I can only dream.

Never heard of anyone running a crossflow head backwards, but some guys were running hemi sixes in toranas. I had heard about the 221 crank swap, but would not do it because it was a Ford part. Now I've lost count of how many Fords I've owed since. The wife still drives a VX at the moment :evil3:

mik · 16-04-2009, 01:50 AM

a mate from years past had a falcon 6 crank in his ht monaro , the only fact i can remember is that it was 235 ci, it was very nippy.

greenfoam · 16-04-2009, 02:18 AM

I've seen pictures of this, not sure if it was from that car but a Ford alloy head on a Holden 6. It didn't look as simple as you would imagine, there was ALOT of extra weld layed down on the head. Also seen a complete Ford 6 into a VL all legal on ebay a while back. Whole car sold for like a grand. That's the easier way to replace a slow 6 with another less slow one

jcxr · 15-06-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Amen Yeti, whatever works! I have owned cars from different camps and IMHO it's about having fun with cars not brand loyalty.

So back in the day I played around with 186 Holden engines a lot. In the mid 80's I finally got one putting out about 320Hp and running 14's over the quarter in an EH. That's nothing now, but back then I was quick

A 400Hp+ red motor n/a I can only dream.

Never heard of anyone running a crossflow head backwards, but some guys were running hemi sixes in toranas. I had heard about the 221 crank swap, but would not do it because it was a Ford part. Now I've lost count of how many Fords I've owed since. The wife still drives a VX at the moment :evil3:

Ron Harrop of drag racing fame had 350HP out of a red motor in an FX/FJ and ran high 11's. My FJ ute had 260hp and ran 13.8's. This was in the early '70's. The Torana in question is owned by a Harrop employee, may have a bit of Ron's magic applied to it.

Bud Bud · 15-06-2010, 09:13 AM

Can't see what the big deal is really!!! These build ups are purpose made to produce specific results. They just use what aftermarket bits that are freely availble, even if that means OEM from another supplier.

While it is widely accepted that the top loader is bloody strong, the powerglide is also bullet proof. See here http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11277896 It is no big deal to see a small block Chev in a T-bucket or 32 coupe hotrod either.

The only time it would and should be a problem (imho) is if this type of modification is done to original build up or resto GT's or GTS's or A9-X's etc., all though I do know that a lot of these also use modified 9" diffs to suit though.

But for circuit or drag racing, then use the best bits you can afford.

edit sorry yeti, should have read your post first.

Bud Bud.

302 XC · 15-06-2010, 01:53 PM

seen a eh years ago with a 235 holden stroker in it(221 ford crank)
they are abit of work to do
think the bottom of the block has to scalloped from memory ???
then been in a flat 13 sec LJ with a stock bottom end 202
alot of port work was done, whole car cost 3.5 K and wieghted under a tonne
this said torana with the ford head, hmmm i wonder how much $$$ it cost to do
maybe there are rules in the class it runs where it must retain the holden block ???

svo supporter · 15-06-2010, 06:07 PM

To fit a 221 crank into a 186 block, the base of the bore needs to be scolloped out, so the crank spins freely. The rear of the ford crank also needs to be cut off, so the holden part can be put on.

Back about 20 years ago now, it cost about $5,000 to do this crank change. That didn't include the rest of the motor.