Australasian College of Surgeons

**Full Noise** · 02-09-2007, 09:02 PM

Have these people totally lost the plot? Perhaps if they feel so strongly about ESC they should put their hands into their deep pockets and subsidise it themselves.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=65211

Green X · 02-09-2007, 09:24 PM

:lookedat: they must have got into the liqueur cabinet agine

:

davocol · 02-09-2007, 09:37 PM

After owning many cars without ESC and now owning one with it, I would never go back to one without it again. I whole heartedly agree with them, not sure about the learner age increasing though.

**Falcon Coupe** · 02-09-2007, 09:39 PM

I was reading an article on ESC recently, i was led to believe compulsory ESC will save nearly as many lives as the introduction of seat belts did.

Bill_R · 02-09-2007, 09:40 PM

ESC will be standard on new cars in a few years. I can't see it being fitted to older cars.
Lifting the learner age to 18 will be too much of a vote stopper. 18 year olds can vote.

Fairlane · 02-09-2007, 10:06 PM

Well if you took that as gospel we should all be dead by know.

Raisining L Plate to 18, in addition to being utterly rediculous- They wont be getting licenses till 19, on P's until 22/23. It would cause the youth unemployment rate to skyrocket to about 80% and im betting TAFE and UNi enrolements would collaps not to mention it is just plain STUPID. Most 18 years olds are out of bloody highschool for gods sakes.

As for ESC, well its getting a bit on my nerve, ok sure its good, but lke ABS it will not stop stupidity, hell ive driven a 65 Xp with 4 wheel drums and it didnt spontaneously combust because it did not have ESC, ABS, whatever

**ebxr8240** · 02-09-2007, 10:23 PM

When do you people start drinking???... I got my licence two days after I turned 15...Had atleast two years experiance on road driving before we started on "real" parties..
I grew up on 250 acres so I'd been driving for years....

**Full Noise** · 02-09-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

When do you people start drinking???... I got my licence two days after I turned 15...Had atleast two years experiance on road driving before we started on "real" parties..
I grew up on 250 acres so I'd been driving for years....

Good god man. You’re lucky to be alive. Didn’t you know that at 15 your frontal lobe hasn’t quite dropped to the same level of what you testicles did when you were three-months old, blah, blah, blah.

If that car was fitted with ESP, ABS, TC, ESC and a healthy dose of VB, you wouldn’t be posting this from a hospital bed.

**ebxr8240** · 02-09-2007, 10:48 PM

By the time I was 17, I converted my Escort to 2000 with side droughts etc..
Then latter fitted a 289 h.p V8...All legal back then...

Allen · 02-09-2007, 10:57 PM

Prof Cass: "Increasing the learner driver age nationally to 18 - the legal age in Victoria - would go a long way to addressing the number of teenage road trauma victims"

To me, that sounds like it will only defer the problem... If you get your learners permit at age 18, then you cannot legally drive alone until you are 20, and no longer a teenager...

:

Sure, very few teens will die on the roads as they can't drive, but suddenly there will be a public outcry for the amount of inexperianced 20-21 year olds killing themselves.

Tell me, how do these people get PHD's?? It certainly isn't from common sense and being in touch with the real world...

FlipXW · 02-09-2007, 11:04 PM

Rediculous. Raising it to 18 would be worse IMO, You can tell and teach a 15,16 year old what to do and they will listen. Try and tell an 18, 19 year old what to do, its a near impossible task as the already know 'everything'.

**Full Noise** · 02-09-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fairlane_ghia

Tell me, how do these people get PHD's?? It certainly isn't from common sense and being in touch with the real world...

I think that these people are genuinely so out of touch with the real world that they actually believe the garbage that they discuss amongst themselves. Perhaps someone should explain to these surgeons that young people have a hard enough time just paying for petrol before they can worry about things like ESC and the like.

**Elks** · 02-09-2007, 11:52 PM

Oh dear.

I actually think that lowering the driving age here in vic to 17, like the bulk of the nation is a good idea.

It will give me a chance to get my teenage daughters driving before they become night clubbers.(yes I am not a a disinterested party or a 19 year old) . . Maybe a "17" licence that is only valid between 6am and 9pm or something like that, but teaching/learning/education is the answer.

Moving the age out a year is just dumb. They can vote at 18, join the army and fight at 16 but can't drive. These dudes are way too rapt up in there new s classes to have a clue.

Rant over

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afroboy · 03-09-2007, 06:30 AM

[QUOTE=Full Noise] Perhaps if they feel so strongly about ESC they should put their hands into their deep pockets and subsidise it themselves.

Shouldn't be too hard for even a couple of them,
a mate of mine is a private anaethetist. He works 6:30am to between 6pm to 10pm depending on the lists, 5 days a week, he earns between $23000 to $32000 A WEEK

davocol · 03-09-2007, 08:27 AM

That's the exact reason why ESC is so good, it aids stupidity. Most people end up in situations where esc is required due to stupidity of their own or stupidity of another driver. It should be compulsory on all cars, unfortunately this will not help the majority of the youth of today for probably 15 years, at least most p platers are starting to get air bags now in their cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairlane

As for ESC, well its getting a bit on my nerve, ok sure its good, but lke ABS it will not stop stupidity, hell ive driven a 65 Xp with 4 wheel drums and it didnt spontaneously combust because it did not have ESC, ABS, whatever

merlin · 03-09-2007, 08:58 AM

[QUOTE=afroboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

Perhaps if they feel so strongly about ESC they should put their hands into their deep pockets and subsidise it themselves.

Shouldn't be too hard for even a couple of them,
a mate of mine is a private anaethetist. He works 6:30am to between 6pm to 10pm depending on the lists, 5 days a week, he earns between $23000 to $32000 A WEEK

He earns $1.6mil a year as an anaethetist. Typo?

FORD3V · 03-09-2007, 09:49 AM

I think the professionals who have made these suggestions no slightly more about the human brain and the way it works than all of you "experts" who just rubbish them and start making derogatory remarks about the money they earn or the cars they drive.

Maybe they have made these proposals because they actually care about human life? And they obviously believe it would make a differance.

As soon as anyone mentions lowering speed limits or the legal driving age or anything that attempt's to decrease the road toll the majority of people on this forum just start rubbishing them and then give there "expert" opinion.

Rev28K · 03-09-2007, 10:50 AM

I’m happy to see it on mainstream and heavy models (remember the Toyota add that had a Fourby going sideways down a street? Was it a Prado?). I’d hate to crest a rise and see a couple of tons coming sideways towards me.

I’d like to see some sort of exemption where the smaller number of “interesting” cars with good primary safety (new Bolwell, Lotus, Novas, PRB’s, Daytona replicas, Cobra & GT40 replicas, etc) aren’t driven out of business because of over-reactive mainstream nannyism.

Even some of the sophisticated systems from big manufacturers can trip over themselves in certain circumstances (e.g. Porsches 911 ABS and Mercedes traction control with the big V12 turbo engine).

Yes I’ve driven a BMW 5 series with Stability Control hard around a tight corner just to see what it would do. I was expecting it to wash out and it felt spooky how the electronics guided a big, heavy, soflty-sprung thing where I wanted it to go. It felt very unsettling – I don’t want to be relying on electronics every day to potentially save me.

Keepleft · 03-09-2007, 11:12 AM

Meh, add this in as to 'future direction':-
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...52_ntnews.html

Quote:

Hundreds of cameras that record number plates will be set up on Australia's major highways under the plan by CrimTrac, which has been approved by state police ministers.

The cameras could also be used to detect people speeding on the highway, now limited to 130km/h.

||| · 03-09-2007, 11:13 AM

$580 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. most kids spend more than that on chipboard subs from supercheap.

anything to keep an inexperienced driver out of my lane gets my vote.

**Full Noise** · 03-09-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |||

$580 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. most kids spend more than that on chipboard subs from supercheap.

anything to keep an inexperienced driver out of my lane gets my vote.

$580 might be two fifths of f---all, but it’s the other $40,000 required to buy the car in the first place, or didn‘t you consider that?

What was your first car, a brand new a brand new commo or Falcon?

||| · 03-09-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

$580 might be two fifths of f---all, but it’s the other $40,000 required to buy the car in the first place, or didn‘t you consider that?

What was your first car, a brand new a brand new commo or Falcon?

my first car was a VK executive. a great little car actually.

not sure what that has to do with anything though. nowhere in the article did they say they are forcing new drivers to buy new cars

Mongoose · 03-09-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |||

$580 is nothing in the grand scheme of things. most kids spend more than that on chipboard subs from supercheap.

anything to keep an inexperienced driver out of my lane gets my vote.

Terrific, and how the hell are new drivers supposed to get experienced if no one wants them on the roads? its all well and good driving around a closed test track with a driving instructor with you, but the only way to really know what its like out on the roads is if your out there drving with all the other people

||| · 03-09-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose10

Terrific, and how the hell are new drivers supposed to get experienced if no one wants them on the roads? its all well and good driving around a closed test track with a driving instructor with you, but the only way to really know what its like out on the roads is if your out there drving with all the other people

they can stay on the roads all they like. i was inexperienced once as well. when i am on the road however my #1 priority is getting myself and my family home safe. if a new measure reduces the chances of little johnny ending up in my lane after trying to pull a fully sick skid in his lowered hi-lux then i say its a winner

Mongoose · 03-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |||

they can stay on the roads all they like. i was inexperienced once as well. when i am on the road however my #1 priority is getting myself and my family home safe. if a new measure reduces the chances of little johnny ending up in my lane after trying to pull a fully sick skid in his lowered hi-lux then i say its a winner

Then thats not inexperienced driving, that IRRESPONSIBLE drving, theres a difference there.

||| · 03-09-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose10

Then thats not inexperienced driving, that IRRESPONSIBLE drving, theres a difference there.

in principle i agree. however from what i have seen the most irresponsible driving comes from those with the least experince.

either way, i dont see how stopping them sliding out of control could be a bad thing

**Full Noise** · 03-09-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by |||

my first car was a VK executive. a great little car actually.

not sure what that has to do with anything though. nowhere in the article did they say they are forcing new drivers to buy new cars

My apologies. Obviously that comment went over your head like a Jumbo jet.

I couldn’t care less about your first car. The point being is that these surgeons want new drivers off the road until they’re 18, and they want everyone to drive a car fitted with ESC. The last time I checked, ESC is only available on extremely late model cars. Sadly it’s people like this that have the ears of politicians, not you or me, unless there’s an election.

Mongoose · 03-09-2007, 11:40 AM

Dosent matter if it is compolusry on new cars, all that means is there more likely to buy a VR-VS/EF-EL with no safety features and do the same thing

||| · 03-09-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

My apologies, obviously that comment went over your head like a Jumbo jet.

I couldn’t care less about your first car. The point being is that these surgeons want new drivers off the road until they’re 18 and they want everyone to drive a car fitted with ESC. The last time I checked, ESC is only available on extremely late model cars. Sadly it’s people like this that have the ears of politicians, not you or me, unless there’s an election.

making ESC standard in all new cars has nothing to do with penalising new drivers. i'm not sure why you are linking them. they are not saying that all cars on the road should be crushed and eveyone made to get new cars. they are saying that all new cars from now on should have ESC.

||| · 03-09-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mongoose10

Dosent matter if it is compolusry on new cars, all that means is there more likely to buy a VR-VS/EF-EL with no safety features and do the same thing

correct. but soon enough the VRs & EFs will be recycled to make chinese patio furniture leaving only ESC fitted cars for inexperienced drivers to buy.