AMG - "enough is enough"

Whitey-AMG · 30-01-2008, 08:28 PM

Well , well,

Seems the great EURO power war between MERCEDES/AMG V AUDI has come to a head of late.

Seems the latest focus will be on engine economy and efficiency for AMG as they are no longer concerned with competing in the current "POWER WAR"...The AMG engineers must be rubbing shoulders with the FPV engineers of late..........LOL

Anyways........a very interesting read and perhaps a societal reflection of the current time...........how much power is too much power and when does it just become unuseable for a street car...........Will we see a similar trend here in AU with mainstream manufacturers just saying..........."enough is enough"

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2573D9000C7492

ED Classic · 30-01-2008, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

Well , well,

Seems the great EURO power war between MERCEDES/AMG V AUDI has come to a head of late.

Seems the latest focus will be on engine economy and efficiency for AMG as they are no longer concerned with competing in the current "POWER WAR"...The AMG engineers must be rubbing shoulders with the FPV engineers of late..........LOL

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2573D9000C7492

Yeah FPV the class leaders...lol

**Falcon Coupe** · 30-01-2008, 08:32 PM

I'm happy for FPV to follow their lead and stop when they reach this stage:

Quote:

AMG's 6.0-litre twin-turbo V12 (as found in the S, SL and CL-class) offers 450kW/1000Nm.

SVTVNM · 30-01-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

Well , well,

Seems the great EURO power war between MERCEDES/AMG V AUDI has come to a head of late.

Seems the latest focus will be on engine economy and efficiency for AMG as they are no longer concerned with competing in the current "POWER WAR"...The AMG engineers must be rubbing shoulders with the FPV engineers of late..........LOL

Anyways........a very interesting read and perhaps a societal reflection of the current time...........how much power is too much power and when does it just become unuseable for a street car...........Will we see a similar trend here in AU with mainstream manufacturers just saying..........."enough is enough"

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2573D9000C7492

If AMG won't do it I am sure BRABUS will fill the void. I do agree that there will come a time, not to far away were V8's will be only for play toys.

Brute6 · 30-01-2008, 08:36 PM

To be honest, I think that is fair enough. They already have mumbo jumbo power/torque figures, so I guess they can now still use those figures, but (like FPV!!!!!), massage their cars around those figures.

On an end note, I'd be very happy to have a fuel efficient 450kW/1000Nm monster in my driveway!!!!!

Whitey-AMG · 30-01-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I'm happy for FPV to follow their lead and stop when they reach this stage:

I guess the issue lies with the competition and the perception of being market leader in this area.

Would 450Kw and 1000Nm from an FPV V8 or 6 be perceived as "enough" if the comeptition ( HSV ) are marketing and selling war machines with 480Kw and 1000Nm +.....................????

You can betcha next paycheck we'd all be whingeing.............

It's almost like a big game of chicken............One manufacturer will have to say "enough is enough" first and hand the power mantle over.........once and for all. We're all just hoping it wont be FPV.

prydey · 30-01-2008, 08:54 PM

its hard to even comprehend 1000nm. i think they have an insane amount (up round 800 or something) just off idle right the way through. its easy to say 'enough is enough' when you are talking those figures.

Fev · 30-01-2008, 10:15 PM

.... i can only imagine driving a car with over double the power and over double the torque of my car.. mmmm

Ives · 30-01-2008, 10:21 PM

C63 AMG is sex....

drcook · 30-01-2008, 10:25 PM

while these figures are what petrolheads dream of, there has to be a time where the manufacturers can no longer produce reliable cars with these continuous power increases.
People who buy these cars arent morons, they are going to realise that if the second hand buyer doesnt trust the reliability, the original owner isnt going to get good resale value. Would you buy a second hand car with 450kw/1000nm and 120,000kms on the clock for top price? i wouldnt.

Falcon Freak · 30-01-2008, 10:27 PM

AMG have become a bunch of soft Richards - go BMW!

FF

Fev · 30-01-2008, 10:30 PM

by we reach that time im sure it will be affordable to have flying cars

GK · 30-01-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcook

while these figures are what petrolheads dream of, there has to be a time where the manufacturers can no longer produce reliable cars with these continuous power increases.
People who buy these cars arent morons, they are going to realise that if the second hand buyer doesnt trust the reliability, the original owner isnt going to get good resale value. Would you buy a second hand car with 450kw/1000nm and 120,000kms on the clock for top price? i wouldnt.

People with money enough to buy one of these in the first place wouldn't be overly fussed with the resale I'd wager.

Some people in their world, (let's face it, these cars are in a price bracket worlds away from us) wouldn't care how much such cars cost, because it's the "mine is bigger, faster, better, more expensive than yours" scenario.

Whilst that mindset continues, there will always be a willingness to build cars with such performance.

GK

nb_351 · 30-01-2008, 11:42 PM

look again at the bugatti veyron, who needs 1000odd horsepower, youll probably only ever legally use maybe 400 of it, and illegally use all 1000 for about 5 seconds before something undesired happens...

**DJM83** · 31-01-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I'm happy for FPV to follow their lead and stop when they reach this stage:

AMG's 6.0-litre twin-turbo V12 (as found in the S, SL and CL-class) offers 450kW/1000Nm.

Thats gold

: , hell would freeze over before that. Imagine how many stripe packages it would take before they got to that level of power. How many have we had on 290 cars

:

TUF514 · 31-01-2008, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

I'm happy for FPV to follow their lead and stop when they reach this stage:

Only 450 kw from a twin turbo 6 litre v12?

Rev28K · 31-01-2008, 04:51 PM

Hmm. And there were rumors of an AMG twin turbo 6.3 litre V8 that would be able to beat the Audi Quattro RS6.

Seriously who needs a 1800kg Merecedes C-class or a 2000(+) kg Bugatti Veyron. Get smart guys, concentrate on adding lightness!

nugget378 · 31-01-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF514

Only 450 kw from a twin turbo 6 litre v12?

Keep in mind it has to meet euro emissions and be so docile even your nan could drive it.
Not to mention factory warranty...

[Tonko] · 31-01-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev28K

Hmm. And there were rumors of an AMG twin turbo 6.3 litre V8 that would be able to beat the Audi Quattro RS6.

Seriously who needs a 1800kg Merecedes C-class or a 2000(+) kg Bugatti Veyron. Get smart guys, concentrate on adding lightness!

Adding lightness?

Force6 · 31-01-2008, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Tonko]

Adding lightness?

Removing heaviness.

4Vman · 31-01-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF514

Only 450 kw from a twin turbo 6 litre v12?

How many KW's did your 9.0L supercharged big block make?

prydey · 31-01-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF514

Only 450 kw from a twin turbo 6 litre v12?

don't forget the 1000nm of torque.

TUF514 · 31-01-2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

How many KW's did your 9.0L supercharged big block make?

9 litre? Supercharged? Reading mustn't be your forte.

Mine only made 423 kw with a few major restrictions. Oh, that was NA as well.

TUF514 · 31-01-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

don't forget the 1000nm of torque.

Im not saying those are poor figures, but i would expect more from that much forced capacity, as well as being built by Europes finest.

Walkinshaw · 31-01-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUF514

Im not saying those are poor figures, but i would expect more from that much forced capacity, as well as being built by Europes finest.

You are joking right?

It MUST fire up first time (inc in minus 30deg) idle whisper quiet, be smoother than virtualy every vehicle on the planet, have some reseblence of fuel econonomy, last 100,000's of KM with little problems, Factory Waranty and beable to be driven to the shops by grandma.

I don't think 450/1000 is tooo bad

Bent8 · 31-01-2008, 10:57 PM

I agree, Audi is nuts with their twin turbo V10

: we have reached a sort of 'glass ceiling' with power outputs today...

Look at the Brabus CLS "Rocket" 4dr sedan, 6.3L V12 Twin Turbo that makes 730hp and over 1000Nm and has clocked 362km/h!!....problem is the TC can't handle the torque let alone the trans so they had to electronically limit the max torque to just over 800Nm.

I read somewhere AMG is going to primarily use tuned N/A engines from now on because they say the supercharged V8's are not very fuel efficient and also because their new 7-speed box can't handle 700Nm.

The 6.2L DOHC V8 is a solid engine with impressive numbers and has the potential to make over 550hp with just a flash tune and aftermarket headers, more than enough power for any car I would think...

An AMG tuner in the US even tried to stick a 4psi blower on it but gave up because of the high comp ratio (11.3).

HSE2 · 31-01-2008, 10:58 PM

Perhaps it is also recognition that AMG are struggling to get that power into a usable rear wheel drive package.

They have room (alot of) to make future iterations much faster and much easier to use.

I think you will find that the 1000nm is well and truly turned down too.

Steffo · 01-02-2008, 01:53 AM

This is interesting... but I don't see it lasting...

Upcomping Audi RS6 = 426kW 650Nm 5.2 TT V10.

Proposted new M5 = 410kW 5.0 TT V10.

378kW N/A E63 to compete? I think not...