Trees lining roadways

xr6turbo2005 · 17-01-2010, 05:20 PM

I was going to mention this topic in the thread regarding the the tragic loss of 5 lives, but thought it best in a seperate topic.

I noticed in the photos, just how many large tress line the road on both sides. I just wonder how different the result may have been if the tree wasnt there.

I recall hearing about some studies being done on the subject of many deaths are caused by vehicles hitting unmovable objects such at trees, drain calverts etc. they have after all redesigned many of the road barriers so they crumple, wooden road post have been replaced by plastic ones etc, but nothing done about trees.

maybe it's about time governments spent some of the money raised from traffic fines into removing these in teh interest of safety.

This doesnt mean no trees at all, just not huge gums etc

geckoGT · 17-01-2010, 05:25 PM

By allowing the cars to plought through fences and into houses? Have a look at the pics, if that tree was not there, that car would have cleaned up that fence and probably the back of the house (most likely a childs bedroom).

Not saying your idea is without merit, just not in that situation. In that sort of area, lets have lots of big trees, keep the carnage on the street rather than in peoples houses.

FPV+fteT3 · 17-01-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

By allowing the cars to plought through fences and into houses? Have a look at the pics, if that tree was not there, that car would have cleaned up that fence and probably the back of the house (most likely a childs bedroom).

Not saying your idea is without merit, just not in that situation. In that sort of area, lets have lots of big trees, keep the carnage on the street rather than in peoples houses.

I agree with this it was not the tree's fault in a 60k zone most tree accidents and electric poles wont kill you anything you hit at warp speed is dangerous and I bet that home owner is glad the trees were there and the fatality count is only 5 not more. If you can cut off a power pole or a huge tree a bit of brick and plaster is nothing.

chrisfpv · 17-01-2010, 05:34 PM

If they didn't hit that tree, it would've been another tree some other time. Having unmovables objects on the side of the road such as massive trees should encourage young drivers who speed to stick to the speed limit. But they won't, because they're idiots.

The last thing road users want are other drivers in the mind set of "Even if I do go off the road, i'll smash right through that barrier or post because it's made out of plastic so i'll be fine".

geckoGT · 17-01-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

I agree with this it was not the tree's fault in a 60k zone most tree accidents and electric poles wont kill you anything you hit at warp speed is dangerous and I bet that home owner is glad the trees were there and the fatality count is only 5 not more. If you can cut off a power pole or a huge tree a bit of brick and plaster is nothing.

Exactly, seen an Audi take out a large pole and still spread a brick wall all over the place. Admittedly it did hit 6 feet up the pole at about 160km/h, but this accident happened at 140, not much less. That house and fence would have meant nothing to nearly 2 tonnes moving at 140.

I say lets save our road safety money and change driving attitudes, somehow.

Sizey · 17-01-2010, 05:41 PM

I'm with geckogt trees in lot of cases are native and were already there or just decortive. If someone wants to hurtle along and kiss a tree well its their own fault and as has been mentioned, on numerous occasions trees have stopped cars from ending up in all sorts of whacky places.

However in saying this, during the week a young driver died in RAH because a tree branch fell on her car whilst driving down greenhill rd. the gum branch fell on the car as she drove along she then lost control and crashed into 2 cars in a yard on the other side of the rd.

Sizey · 17-01-2010, 05:42 PM

So maybe trees should be better taken care of but they do more good than harm when it comes to car accidents me thinks.

FALCONXTV8 · 17-01-2010, 05:50 PM

As sad as it is that this tragedy happened.I can't help but think that if your in a vehicle doing that speed in a residential area you have to be prepared to cop the fate that may await you.It's pretty simple if you don't drive like a lunatic you will probavbly not become a statistic.It's the innocent victims of these kinds of incidents that i really feel for.It's would have been alot worse if the out of control vehicle had wiped out a family travelling on that road or had wiped out half a house instead of that tree.

Sizey · 17-01-2010, 05:56 PM

Amen to that

xr6turbo2005 · 17-01-2010, 06:00 PM

i think you are all missing my point. im not referring only to this situation.

what about the poor innocent driver out on a country road at night, swerves for a roo , losses control on the gravel shoulder of the road and slams into a tree. If the tree wasnt there, all that may have happened was ploughed into a farmers fence and into the paddock. driver alive, with some damage to property that can be fixed.

dont they say, it's not the speed that kills you, its the sudden stop.

just saying that there must be better ways then using object such as large trees as a road barrier. in the case of suburbia, what about thick hedges etc.

we can all say it's the drivers fault, but governments want to reduce road tolls, (and they'd have you beleive no other result the ZERO is acceptable) and to do that i just think they need to think about out of the box and not blame it all on the drive and speed. admittedly that maybe the cause, but was it the ONLY contributing factor ??

Sizey · 17-01-2010, 06:08 PM

1. you should not swerve, the roo should be hit. Again in sa a woman swerved to miss a koala and slammed into a bridge on the freeway.

2. In the country the trees are native and not going to be pulled out due to a road there.

3. Hedges won't stop a car, rather the thing behind the hedge like the light pole will.

4. Trees were never intended to be used as a road barrier, people just like to use them as buffers.

I can see where you are coming from but I don't agree with it.

FALCONXTV8 · 17-01-2010, 06:15 PM

The fact of the matter is that if everyone did the right thing on our roads like not speed,drink drive,drive tired,etc no one would die on our roads,but that will never happen,some people will ALWAYS take risks and as a result accidents will ALWAYS happen.

xr6turbo2005 · 17-01-2010, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sizey

1. you should not swerve, the roo should be hit. Again in sa a woman swerved to miss a koala and slammed into a bridge on the freeway. .

if everyone did what they shoud do, we would not be having this discussion , 5 young people would still be alive and we'd be living in Utopia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sizey

I can see where you are coming from but I don't agree with it.

not asking you to agree, and i'm not saying its the right solution, just bring forward a discussion point. Yes, i do think somewhere in the future trees lining roadways will be subject to discussion by relevant authorities as there has been studies on it already.

Keepleft · 17-01-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6turbo2005

i think you are all missing my point. im not referring only to this situation.

what about the poor innocent driver out on a country road at night, swerves for a roo , losses control on the gravel shoulder of the road and slams into a tree. If the tree wasnt there, all that may have happened was ploughed into a farmers fence and into the paddock. driver alive, with some damage to property that can be fixed.

NSW (and indeed for other states), for its *main* highways and rural arterials does clear trees typically 9.0m from the roadways edge. (A typical freeway median btw is 10m).

Its argued, based on crash history studies (80's), that doing so allows some vehicles a better chance to recover.

Not quite the extent I'd like as a minimum, but it seems the routine RTA/Council figure.

In relation to this event, its a built-up area, not the first time its happened, won't be the last, but it'll likely be used to;- 'appear to do something about the road toll' (tougher anti speed measures).

[Tonko] · 17-01-2010, 06:36 PM

Should be more of them IMO. A few metres back though...

I think table drains 30cm from the road edge (like in my area) is worse.

PANELCORP · 17-01-2010, 06:38 PM

Its strange how things pop back in to your head

TOPGEAR had a story about how the UK rated it's roads from 1 to 5 about NON VEHICLE HAZARDS

It seems that the majority of incidents had some involvement of a non vehicle nature - trees, signs, traffic lights, barriers and so on

Trees are a major hazard if the road does not have barriers to stop you exiting the road

Many lives have been lost because local councils (I believe it is their problem) have chosen not to remove trees near busy roads

I know of several roads in NSW where the only things on the trees lining the roads are the crosses remembering those that have died

The melbourne crash would still have happened with or without the trees, but many sleepy drivers would still be alive if some clear regulations were put in place -

higher speed limit = fewer trees - not rocket science !!!

reds89 · 17-01-2010, 06:39 PM

you can move trees,poles,bus seats and anything else on the side of the road,but no matter what, you will still get accidents like this happening,when we are young we are indestructible or so we think, and we can drive anything any way,police and governments can jump up and down and change laws etc,but while we are young......we are glad we become older and slower.

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6turbo2005

i think you are all missing my point. im not referring only to this situation.

what about the poor innocent driver out on a country road at night, swerves for a roo , losses control on the gravel shoulder of the road and slams into a tree. If the tree wasnt there, all that may have happened was ploughed into a farmers fence and into the paddock. driver alive, with some damage to property that can be fixed.

dont they say, it's not the speed that kills you, its the sudden stop.

just saying that there must be better ways then using object such as large trees as a road barrier. in the case of suburbia, what about thick hedges etc.

we can all say it's the drivers fault, but governments want to reduce road tolls, (and they'd have you beleive no other result the ZERO is acceptable) and to do that i just think they need to think about out of the box and not blame it all on the drive and speed. admittedly that maybe the cause, but was it the ONLY contributing factor ??

Thank god there were trees in Mill Pk or that car would have ended up demolishing a house and its occupants too...
You cant remove solid objects from the sides of roads although you can minimise their risk, wire barriers seem to reduce damage to some degree.... people just need to drive more safely.

**Giant Cranium** · 17-01-2010, 07:21 PM

dont run off the road and you wont hit a tree. seems simple. its the douch in the drivers seat that is the problem not what is off the road!

Feathers · 17-01-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FALCONXTV8

The fact of the matter is that if everyone did the right thing on our roads like not speed,drink drive,drive tired,etc no one would die on our roads,but that will never happen,some people will ALWAYS take risks and as a result accidents will ALWAYS happen.

Exactly. The buck stops with the person behind the wheel. We can't legislate against stupidity.

Melz · 17-01-2010, 07:43 PM

I think the fair majority of us are fairly good at avoiding trees at any speed...... a minority plays dumb and pays the price...

**DJM83** · 17-01-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain awesome

dont run off the road and you wont hit a tree. seems simple. its the douch in the drivers seat that is the problem not what is off the road!

So very true.

SM1DY · 17-01-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain awesome

dont run off the road and you wont hit a tree. seems simple. its the douch in the drivers seat that is the problem not what is off the road!

But is death really a suitable sentence for being an idiot on the road?

Also, a lot of people in this thread and also the other thread have made comments regarding the driver being stupid and taking the lives of 4 other people because of his action, but when you consider no-one actually knows what happened in the car and it can't be proven that the passengers weren't being folish by egging the driver on. With six people in the car at once, I find it hard to believe that the driver was the only one making poor decisions last night

**DJR-351** · 17-01-2010, 07:55 PM

What a good idea, then when the trees have gone they can build runoff's and sand trap's....

Leave the trees out of it, there inanimate objects, and by the way, so are cars....

vztrt · 17-01-2010, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6turbo2005

I recall hearing about some studies being done on the subject of many deaths are caused by vehicles hitting unmovable objects such at trees, drain calverts etc. they have after all redesigned many of the road barriers so they crumple, wooden road post have been replaced by plastic ones etc, but nothing done about trees.

I believe it was sweeden that did the study and their solution was to relocate big poles, remove trees and put crash barriers in. In doing so they saw a big reduction in road deaths in the country.

g220ba · 17-01-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

But is death really a suitable sentence for being an idiot on the road?

Also, a lot of people in this thread and also the other thread have made comments regarding the driver being stupid and taking the lives of 4 other people because of his action, but when you consider no-one actually knows what happened in the car and it can't be proven that the passengers weren't being folish by egging the driver on. With six people in the car at once, I find it hard to believe that the driver was the only one making poor decisions last night

regardless of if the passengers were egging the driver on, the driver is responsible for the 5 other people in that car. the fact there was 6 in the car was bad enough.

Back on topic i don't have a problem with trees lining the roadside, we as drivers should be skilled enough to keep our vehicles on the black stuff more often than not, yes things happen that are out of our control sometimes but most instances these sort of incidents are avoidable. Safer having a tree there than a house.

vztrt · 17-01-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84ltd

Back on topic i don't have a problem with trees lining the roadside, we as drivers should be skilled enough to keep our vehicles on the black stuff more often than not, yes things happen that are out of our control sometimes but most instances these sort of incidents are avoidable. Safer having a tree there than a house.

Unfortunately people push themselves to the limit. Long drives where they think they can do it and fall asleep, slippery roads bad tyres and panic and then there is high speed above a regular persons ability. Unfortunately all of this can be avoided but as is seen throughout a year it doesn't, people make bad choices and it ends poorly.

Walt Kowalski · 17-01-2010, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr6turbo2005

I

maybe it's about time governments spent some of the money raised from traffic fines into removing these in teh interest of safety.

This doesnt mean no trees at all, just not huge gums etc

Its a 60k zone

Better he hit a tree than a family playing in their front yard

If some moron drives at those speeds past my place I would prefer he hit a tree than my family

Playstatoion games have a lot to answer for with the Playstation generation who think they are invincible and think they can actually drive in reaL life.There's no reset button after a big crash in real life

If you want to go fast go to a trackday. Get off my road.

SM1DY · 17-01-2010, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84ltd

regardless of if the passengers were egging the driver on, the driver is responsible for the 5 other people in that car. the fact there was 6 in the car was bad enough.

Your couldn't be more right about that, the driver is the sole person in charge of that vehicle, but if every person in that car were making resonsible decisions, then this accident may not have occur. I was just trying to make the point that it is kind of harsh for people to place all the burden on the driver and that the passenger were effectively innocent casualties when there is absolutely no proof of this.

As for the trees, if this particular road is infamous for speeding, then perhaps barriers on the side of the road are the right move. It's better than a car full of people being killed.

FALCONXTV8 · 17-01-2010, 08:18 PM

Even if they did put barriers on this particular road,it would still have gaping holes in it everywhere for peoples driveways,etc.I for one would not appreciate the council building an ugly barrier in front of my home just because some people can't control themselves and there vehicle.