TWO 91-year-old hoons were among 260,522 Queensland drivers

[csv8]

TWO 91-year-old hoons were among 260,522 Queensland drivers whose licences were disqualified or suspended last year.

One of the speedsters was disqualified outright while the other was disqualified for amassing too many points.

The next oldest driver to be rubbed out was an 87-year-old. Their identities were not revealed.

A shame file produced by the Department of Transport and Main Roads exclusively for The Courier-Mail contained other surprises.

No fewer than 39 16-year-olds were disqualified before they even obtained their open licences.

Other young offenders to lose their licences included 154 aged 17, 472 aged 18 and 811 aged 19.

Drivers aged 23 had the most disqualifications while the 20-26-year-old group made up 26 per cent of all disqualifications.

A majority of licence cancellations were for unpaid fines.

Of 3.3 million licence holders in Queensland, 6 per cent were disqualified or suspended in 2012, said Transport and Main Roads Minister Scott Emerson.

Mr Emerson is conducting a sweeping review of licensing, penalties and sanctions and seeks public input. (Translated how to raise revenue !!)

He wants to see improvements in the way young driver's skills are tested. "It's important that students have skills such as reverse parking, but there is a higher priority on riskier manoeuvres such as turning right across incoming traffic," Mr Emerson said.

"I want to ensure that the test better reflects the competency required for young drivers to stay safe. I'll be making a decision in the coming months about changes to licensing for two of the most at-risk driver groups.

"We are currently considering public feedback and changes recommended by two reports into the Q-Ride motorcycle program and the Q-SAFE driver's license test.

"The review of licensing was prompted by figures which show how significantly over-represented both groups were in crash and fatality statistics.

"Motorcycles make up 4.2 per cent of all motorised vehicles on register, yet in 2011 there were 45 motorcycle rider and pillion fatalities in Queensland, which represents 16.7 per cent of the Queensland road toll. There are 12 recommendations, including pre-learner training, skills refreshment for riders returning after an extended break from riding, and a further assessment of basic motorcycle skills by a Q-Ride service provider after six months," Mr Emerson said.
- See more at: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/r....UyAtGuvl.dpuf

[BHDOGS]

interesting bout the motorcycle riders perhaps there are issues there to be addressed instead of just its cars faults all the time

[buggo]

I found it interesting that red P platers (the 17 year olds) made up only 0.059% ( [154/260,522]*100)of all the suspended licenses. Now either that's a typo, or p-platers, especially first year ones, have an unjustified stigma when in fact they are perfect.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

interesting bout the motorcycle riders perhaps there are issues there to be addressed instead of just its cars faults all the time

All that statistic proves is that in a car v motorcycle collission - the bike rider is more at risk of injury/fatality. WOW, I never realised that !!!

[eyes87]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

All that statistic proves is that in a car v motorcycle collission - the bike rider is more at risk of injury/fatality. WOW, I never realised that !!!

No it doesn't. How do you draw that conclusion from that statement?? The only thing it proves is that that percentage of motorcyclists died. It doesn't even mention car vs motorbike.

[mcnews]

Yes perhaps in an equal sized accident a motorcyclist isn't protected by a steel cage, airbags etc. etc. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that you are more likely to die having an accident on a bike than in a car.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by mcnews

a motorcyclist isn't protected by a steel cage,

fix?

[EDManual]

as if that many people should lose their licence in a year! Rediculous! Whats wrong is the laws!

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

interesting bout the motorcycle riders perhaps there are issues there to be addressed instead of just its cars faults all the time

I don;t know if you are a motorcyclist, or if you know some you can talk to, but there is a quiet suspicion amongst riders every time we see a report on the news where a bike is found crashed and a dead rider nearby...and no one seems to know what happened. "Rider error" is always the cause.
But most of us...myself included...have had close calls on the highway where, in my case, you are tooling along and a car will overtake in front of you, forcing you off the road and wobbling to a stop. Different circumstances and I could have just as easily hit some roadside object and been a "single motorcycle fatality", and no one would know what had happened...so it must have been my fault.
Cars "not seeing" motorcycles is a simply massive issue. I always ask "If you can't see a motorcycle, then what else are you missing...? Kids on pushbikes? Elderly people crossing the road? Road signs? Lane markings? If your eyesight is that bad...and you have just admitted it is...then maybe you should hand in your licence...


I like the statistics that show someone other than L and P platers are to blame for fines...that would shock a lot of people..."But ain't it them god durn P Platers??? Aren't they the only ones that break the law???"

[Outbackjack]

Its all about distorting the fact and figures. Motorcycle fatalaties have actually been on the decrease for the last ten years.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by csv8

A majority of licence cancellations were for unpaid fines.

This is the most important point here.

In QLD we have a system called SPER http://www.sper.qld.gov.au/.

Anna Bligh and her band of pirates were so incompetent and draconian that they amassed a huge amount of potential revenue from unpaid fines that people just could not afford to pay so they formed their own gestapo to hunt down "enemies of the state". Of course the incumbent has conveniently pushed this down the list of things that need to be fixed as it is a great little earner.

If you do not pay a council unregistered dog fine or swim outside the flags or have a fish that is 5mm too small in your boat or cut down a tree or anything else that has nothing what so ever to do with driving their big stick is to cancel your license and in many cases not tell you thereby voiding your car insurance and and putting you at risk of further penalties.

And this bit is even better. You get flashed on the way to the airport when going away for a month or two.
When you get back you see the speeding fine in the mail and pay it.
Unfortunately as you were late paying it because you were not aware of it as you were away there is an "administrative fee" which is passed to SPER and your license cancelled until it is paid.
They tell you this AFTER they have cancelled your license.

[mcnews]

And people just nod their head and say well if you don't do anything wrong you won't have to worry about it....... It truly is shocking the depths this country is going to with this sort of stuff. It is more at the forefront of my mind than any of the political footballs kicked around by the major parties that the media love to pump up. How about we have an 'We don't want Australia to be a nanny/stalinist/police state' party!

[csv8]

Honda Goldwing has an airbag!!!

[The Monty]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is the most important point here.

In QLD we have a system called SPER http://www.sper.qld.gov.au/.

Anna Bligh and her band of pirates were so incompetent and draconian that they amassed a huge amount of potential revenue from unpaid fines that people just could not afford to pay so they formed their own gestapo to hunt down "enemies of the state". Of course the incumbent has conveniently pushed this down the list of things that need to be fixed as it is a great little earner.

If you do not pay a council unregistered dog fine or swim outside the flags or have a fish that is 5mm too small in your boat or cut down a tree or anything else that has nothing what so ever to do with driving their big stick is to cancel your license and in many cases not tell you thereby voiding your car insurance and and putting you at risk of further penalties.

And this bit is even better. You get flashed on the way to the airport when going away for a month or two.
When you get back you see the speeding fine in the mail and pay it.
Unfortunately as you were late paying it because you were not aware of it as you were away there is an "administrative fee" which is passed to SPER and your license cancelled until it is paid.
They tell you this AFTER they have cancelled your license.

But you wont be booked for unlicensed driving, unless you have received a letter from SPER. And if they have only sent the letter, and cant prove that you received it, you will most likely get a warning. That warning is the equivalent of getting a letter that your licence is suspended, and as such, if you get caught driving again without correcting the issue, you will be done for Unlicensed driving.

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

Originally Posted by flappist

This is the most important point here.

In QLD we have a system called SPER http://www.sper.qld.gov.au/.

Anna Bligh and her band of pirates were so incompetent and draconian that they amassed a huge amount of potential revenue from unpaid fines that people just could not afford to pay so they formed their own gestapo to hunt down "enemies of the state". Of course the incumbent has conveniently pushed this down the list of things that need to be fixed as it is a great little earner.

If you do not pay a council unregistered dog fine or swim outside the flags or have a fish that is 5mm too small in your boat or cut down a tree or anything else that has nothing what so ever to do with driving their big stick is to cancel your license and in many cases not tell you thereby voiding your car insurance and and putting you at risk of further penalties.

And this bit is even better. You get flashed on the way to the airport when going away for a month or two.
When you get back you see the speeding fine in the mail and pay it.
Unfortunately as you were late paying it because you were not aware of it as you were away there is an "administrative fee" which is passed to SPER and your license cancelled until it is paid.
They tell you this AFTER they have cancelled your license.

Unfortunatly NSW has the same draconian setup (sdro) State debt revenue office . introduced after a debt ridden state government looked for avenues to increase monetry gains to the coffers.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by The Monty

But you wont be booked for unlicensed driving, unless you have received a letter from SPER. And if they have only sent the letter, and cant prove that you received it, you will most likely get a warning. That warning is the equivalent of getting a letter that your licence is suspended, and as such, if you get caught driving again without correcting the issue, you will be done for Unlicensed driving.

Really? Is that how it works in theory?

Unfortunatly here is the REAL WORLD what will happen is that you will be intercepted. If you are alone in the car you will not be allowed to continue driving until YOU can prove that you have not got the letter. You can then get someone else to drive it or organise a tow at YOUR COST. Or you can leave your car in the middle of woop woop, hitchhike home and hope at least some of it is still there when you sort out the paper warfare.
Hopefully it is not on a weekend.

Above case ACTUALLY HAPPENED to one of my employees.

In a similar case a few years ago my brother, who was a builder, had just finnished a "roof wetting" where he had 1 can of XXXX gold then immediately jumped into his BMW and left the site at Glenorchy about 50km south of Maryborough. He was immediately pulled over by a roadside breath test and read 0.06. He explained that he had just had one light beer not 2 minutes ago but the Police were not interested as they were busy so he was arrested, his car left on the side of the road and transported to Maryborough where whe was handed off to the testing office for the "official test". His BAC was 0.0.
He was then told he could leave the station.
When he asked for a lift back to his car he was told that they are not a Taxi service and it was his problem.
When he did get back to his car it had been broken in to and his CDs stolen.

Now in both cases "theoretically" none of this should have happened.

Can you give me your spin doctored reason as to why it did?

If you like I can give you quite a number of anecdotes where the actual actions of public servants had no correspondence to what should have happened including when I was a public servant and was told by my boss to lie and hide evidence after a stuffup involving a banned poison.

[The Monty]

Grow up flappist, get off your highhorse. And yes, the way I explained it IS the way we deal with it. But nice way to spin it around into a drink driving story about your brother. Which had nothing to do with anything. I love it when you get caught out being wrong. You post these massive whimsical tirades based on loose "facts", that you apparently "know" then whip out the delete button and banstick on anyone who can prove otherwise.

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Grow up flappist, get off your highhorse. And yes, the way I explained it IS the way we deal with it. But nice way to spin it around into a drink driving story about your brother. Which had nothing to do with anything. I love it when you get caught out being wrong. You post these massive whimsical tirades based on loose "facts", that you apparently "know" then whip out the delete button and banstick on anyone who can prove otherwise.

I have no problems connecting the analogy put forward by Flappist. I can easily see the relevance of his story. Maybe you might read it again??

[flappist]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Grow up flappist, get off your highhorse. And yes, the way I explained it IS the way we deal with it. But nice way to spin it around into a drink driving story about your brother. Which had nothing to do with anything. I love it when you get caught out being wrong. You post these massive whimsical tirades based on loose "facts", that you apparently "know" then whip out the delete button and banstick on anyone who can prove otherwise.

You are not getting upset that "YOU" have been caught out with yet another example of what actually happens and what is supposed to happen not even being remotely close to each other are you?

I would have thought that you would be used to that by now.......

But as you are personally involved, please answer this:

A person is driving in QLD by themselves after 5pm on a Friday when they are pulled over for a random breath test and the QV etc. returns "license cancelled by SPER".

What will actually happen right then and there?

[steve.zissou]

a related story - i was working in qld for 3 months and missed my rego renewal.

driving back to sydney I over took a police car that was doing 105 (110 zone) - hey i wasnt doing anything wrong.

they immediately pulled me over and my reaction plainly demonstrated that i had no idea i missed my rego renewal (expired 2 dqays earlier) - still got the $400 fine but was told I was not allowed to drive it unregistered (it was 2 am and i was 200km from the next major town) -

then they said" but we are going north for a while so well have to trust you to stay here - wink"

i thought that was pretty fair

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

interesting bout the motorcycle riders perhaps there are issues there to be addressed instead of just its cars faults all the time

Perhaps there are issues to be addressed but unless the breakdown of the reasons for the fatalities is known there is no way to tell.

I find it interesting that the other statistics are detailed to the point of naming the age groups that are the most fined but the statistics on motorcycle fatalities, which is a far more important issue is not even detailed as to the causes.

Bringing the reasons to the public would be the first step to changing this statistic as drivers and riders could both gain some knowledge as to why it happens.

This is the usual type of reaction to this from politicians. Put out a broad based press release so that you can make recommendations that are difficult for anyone to challenge and thus get away with introducing a set of laws that don't really mean much and do not address the problem but will go some way to getting a few votes.

I like the subtleties of the article whereby car drivers only need to be able to improve their reverse parking and maybe a couple of other things like turning right etc but motorcycle riders need a lot of training or retraining after a period of not riding. Effectively putting them all in the subnormal intelligence bracket.

In my experience as a long time motorcycle rider and car, truck driver the people who hold both motorcycle licences and car driver licences generally have a much higher level of competency on the roads whether they are riding or driving.

The article doesn't have as much to do with road safety as it does with politics. Its fairly obvious to anyone with a background in motor vehicles that this minister has very little understanding of the issue or is choosing to ignore it!

So whats new!!!!

[Kevxr8Leexr6]

Just on the police returning a person to thier vehicle ? the police are bound by a duty of care, im sure after the case where a stranded woman was bashed as she made her way back to her car and her solicitor argued the point and won. they have to provide a safe passage for any circumstance. ?

[Outbackjack]

Quotes from the March edition of Australian Road rider magazine.

"VSRA spokesman, Stephen Bardsley, says motorcyclists and scooterists continued to set a road safety example for all road users with fatalaties down about 15% on the previous year, while driver fatalities increased 18%. This "damning statistic" shows that drivers, not riders, are the irresponsible road users." Where as the headlines will boast a record-low road toll for Victoria, without the reduction in fatalities of motorcycle and scooter riders, the Victorian road toll would have actually increased in 2012. Its not a single year trend either. Rider deaths are down 30% since 2001 while registrations of bikes and scooters have risen 80%."

"He also points out that 84% of rider fatalities are caused by drivers turning into, or across, the path of a bike or scooter"

Every car driver should take these figures on board and stop blaming bike riders for their incompetance as a driver. Motorcyclists by necesity are far better road users than any car driver that has never riden on the road..... Fact.

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by Kevxr8Leexr6

Just on the police returning a person to thier vehicle ? the police are bound by a duty of care, im sure after the case where a stranded woman was bashed as she made her way back to her car and her solicitor argued the point and won. they have to provide a safe passage for any circumstance. ?

I think that the level of "duty of care" would directly be influenced by the "attitude test". However, I don't agree with leaving anyone stranded.

[Burnout]

Life was so much simpler before SPER......

They pulled you over; "You've outstanding warrants lad". "Crickey Sarg, what's that mean?" "Money or the box, lad, money or the box."
I remember when they put swipe machines on the charge counter so the mugs could pay off the warrants without seeing the inside of a cell. Fines were rated in "penalty units", a figure set by Governor in Council, was about $75 a day in those days.
If you didn't have the loot and a couple of weeks worth of fines, off the 'the bin' you went. They didn't take credit cards either.
I know a couple of Blokes who went in every year during annual leave to 'cut out' their fines........ They knew 'the go' & took it easy, it was the 'fresh meat' that got into trouble.... in there.
I know one bloke who wound up in 'the bin' in the mid nineties, for a fine of two pounds, six shillings and tuppence, from 1966, when he was a juvenile. He had been caught in a shop with sticky fingers.
His mum gave dad enough money out of housekeeping to pay the fine on Court day, but Dad went down the pub instead. The Bloke told the Screws this story on admission and asked if he could make a phone call, when asked why he said he wanted to ring Dad, who was still alive, and tell him where he was & why. Word is the screws let him make a call only if they could listen in for giggles.....

Life was so much simpler in the ol' days and more fun I reckon.

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

All that statistic proves is that in a car v motorcycle collission - the bike rider is more at risk of injury/fatality. WOW, I never realised that !!!

Exactly. All it proves is that motorcylists are more vulnerable.

Didn't see that one coming!

Anyone who reads more into it than that is just anti-bike and/or a moron!


In other braking news, surfers and those who particpate in ocean swimming are more likely to be bitten by sharks than those who are not!

[bally]

Hi all. I'm Steve from the 'Gong and I thought I'd throw something possibly contentious in for my first post.

I'd like to see mandatory retesting of all drivers and riders; say every five years. And not on how to reverse park either. After riding daily for the last 12 years I can't park for ****! As someone mentioned earlier, I'd say it's made my general awareness as a driver much better though.

And on that note, I think that we should introduce a similar system to the UK (or wherever it is that does it), where riders have to spend tim on a mid size bike before moving up to a high capacity bike. Without any evidence to back me up, I'd say that a fair portion of single vehicle (genuine single vehicle) bike accidents are due to people getting off a GN-250 and onto a GSXR-1000.

On a less contentious note, it's been great reading the forums; there are a lot of very knowledgable folks on here.

Cheers,
Steve

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by csv8

A majority of licence cancellations were for unpaid fines.

A whole lot of folk who are simply too broke I guess.

[DMXR6T]

Originally Posted by The Monty

Grow up flappist, get off your highhorse. And yes, the way I explained it IS the way we deal with it. But nice way to spin it around into a drink driving story about your brother. Which had nothing to do with anything. I love it when you get caught out being wrong. You post these massive whimsical tirades based on loose "facts", that you apparently "know" then whip out the delete button and banstick on anyone who can prove otherwise.

The Monty - Flappist is right. I am aware of similar situations and innocent people being penalised. I unknowingly risked driving an unlicenced vehicle after returning from overseas. An employee used the car and there was an unpaid parking fine and the vehicle registration had been suspended, unknown to me. This whole approach is about revenue and not justice or road safety.

I now spend most of my time in Singapore. The government here is not desperate for money, there are very few revenue cameras, fines are low and usually a warning AND the road toll is proportionately lower.

If ever any government impounds one of my vehicles due to one of my staff or the mechanic driving it then I will take revenge. It will cost that government 10 time what they take away from me.

This whole business of jacking up fines, suspending vehicle registration, impounding cars (and not penalising the driver) is a case of revenue gouging and political stunts (look what we are doing). It only alienates people to the extent that they trust the law, police and the system even less. If am am already alienated then things must be bad as I am a mature aged middle class business owner. I have political connections and when I am back in Australia I will certainly be making my concerns heard.

[BHDOGS]

my friend lives in Singapore and if you can even afford a car there a fine will be the least of your worrys