NSW P-Plater restrictions - part two.

[Dave_au]

RTA has finally provided direct information regarding the new restrictions for P-Platers, rather than what we had before (a big number of media releases)

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...ns.html?hhid=2

Prohibited vehicle condition
The prohibited vehicle condition restricts all new provisional (P1 and P2) drivers from driving certain vehicles while on their provisional licence.

Prohibited vehicles are those with:

Eight or more cylinders.
A turbocharged engine (diesel exempt).
A supercharged engine (diesel exempt).
Engine performance modifications.
High performance six cylinder engines.
A list of prohibited vehicles is available to view and download from the box at the bottom of this page.

Please note: the list will be updated as required.

Guidelines for light vehicle modifications (Vehicle standards information sheet VSI 06) are also available to view and download from the box at the bottom of this page.

This condition does not apply to:

Existing provisional (P1 and P2) licence holders, unless they are disqualified for a serious driving offence from 11 July 2005.
Learner licence holders.
Passenger condition
The passenger condition applies to provisional (P1 and P2) drivers disqualified for a serious driving offence. After the disqualification period the provisional (P1 and P2) licence holder will be restricted from carrying more than one passenger when driving. This condition will apply for 12 months.

Exemptions from vehicle restrictions
Exemptions may be granted if:

More powerful vehicles are required for genuine employment purposes (statutory declaration to be provided by an employer).
Eight cylinder 4WD vehicles are required by country drivers who have no practical alternative.
A low performance turbocharged engine vehicle is the principal family vehicle (ie registered to a parent).
If exceptional circumstances can be demonstrated, application for an exemption can be made at any motor registry upon payment of a $23 fee. You cannot drive a prohibited vehicle unless you are exempted and owning a prohibited vehicle does not make you exempt.

Something else rather interesting is that they must have read steffos/ffau's posts regarding high performance 6s as the restrictions also apply to the following 6 cylinder cars as well:

BMW M and M3
Honda NSX
Nissan 350Z,
Porsche (all models)
Mercedes Benz SLK350

Link to banned 6 Cylinders:http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...l_vehicles.pdf

Link to banned 8s/forced induction
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...d_vehicles.pdf

[Soundwarp]

Holy crap....
So all that they can drive is a shopping trolley!

[b2tf]

Ahhh typical, another nasty little fee. $23. FFS, give us a break. No wonder everybody hates the RTA.

Wont work, so in 6 months time when they beef it up even more because it hasnt made one scrap of difference, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

[Dave_au]

Yeah the $23 must be to pay for their thinking music.

Its still stupid - how can hi-po 4 cylinders not be included like the s2000 and integra typeR, however you've got old bombs from the late 80s like turbo Telstars on the sin bin list.

What about the ralliart Magna - that certainly used to beat up the 5.0Ls

[Bucknaked]

Are there any cars left that P Platers can drive? I'm sure glad they banned P Platers from driving 8 Cyl Ferrari's. The amount of 18 years old I see on the road in those is outta control.

[Soundwarp]

^^^Lol..... :

[DJM83]

wat a load or horse excrement gotta feel sorry for our p plate friends dont ya can any1 post up the list cause i cnt open it it wont work

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

The amount of 18 years old I see on the road in those is outta control.

I've seen two.

Must be rent boys.

The car manufacturers with banned 6 cylinders should sue the RTA for saying their cars are less safe than comparable 4cylinder and rotoary sports cars.

[Rmyers]

Does this include p-platers who already own these type of vehicles???

[wicksy]

it is friggin stupid, i am glad i have my P's, what is even more stupid is them bannign the 253's, come on the new 6 cylinders have more power

[Psycho Chicken]

Still good for those 6 cylinder TVRs fellas!

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by Rmyers

Does this include p-platers who already own these type of vehicles???

nup if you have a high powered car and your a p plater.. your fine..

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Rmyers

Does this include p-platers who already own these type of vehicles???

It only applies for people who obtained their P's after 11 July 2005.

Originally Posted by wicksy

it is friggin stupid, i am glad i have my P's, what is even more stupid is them bannign the 253's, come on the new 6 cylinders have more power

That is spot on. The new 6s are putting out more power than my sons EL xr8 he bought recently. He only got his learners weeks before the new law came in.

Money hungry govt b@st@rds.... :jab:

Originally Posted by Steffo

It only applies for people who obtained their P's after 11 July 2005.

and for those who lose their P's after july 11.......


won't it suck if you gain your P's before july 11, purchase a car from the prohibited list, then lose your license. When you get it back, you can't drive your car...

Originally Posted by xrgran

That is spot on. The new 6s are putting out more power than my sons EL xr8 he bought recently. He only got his learners weeks before the new law came in.

Money hungry govt b@st@rds.... :jab:

This is what i have said since this bull came out.

97 el xr8 165kw
93 el xr6 161kw
05 vz SV6 190kw
05 ba I6 Barra 182kw
05 vz exec engine 175kw

[Psycho Chicken]

Now go find EL weights and BA weights.

[Dave_au]

What about Magnas!

VRX 163kw/1500kg
Ralliart 180kw/1470kg

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by james

This is what i have said since this bull came out.

97 el xr8 165kw
93 el xr6 161kw
05 vz SV6 190kw
05 ba I6 Barra 182kw
05 vz exec engine 175kw

The EL XR8 had 170kW 398Nm until the October 1997 update to 185kW 412Nm. The EL XR6 had 164kW, just like every XR6 from EF onward. Only EBII and ED were 161kW.

What's funny is, a 170kW EL XR8, is slower then a 182kW BA XT. The XT is legal, the XR8 isn't. Oh, an EF/EL XR8 is 1566kg, the BA XT is 1672kg.

The logic behind these rules is so flawed I don't know where to begin...

[Sylox]

Gee
no Enzo ferrari's
no Lambo gallardos or murcielagos
no rolls royce
no mabach


lol they went to the extent of listing those and missed Soooooo many other little rockets. Lol I can see people sneeking in though loop holes everywhere in this. What a load of sh!t

[Teki04]

Yepp... my Cuz got screwed over... She is already planning to possibly sell her Mini Cooper S Cabrio with JCW kit that was ordered in January (still waiting for it!)... and get the Similarly performance wise Renault Clio Sport 182 Cup (which isnt in the list)... RTA are total idiots. Also, i noticed they banned cars like the Audi A4 1.8T... if im not wrong some of those had a crap 110kw... Pretty sure an XT Falcon would rip it to shreads!

[Steffo]

Yeah.. an Audi A4 1.8T is hardly a performance car.. omg watch out high 15s, and 9L/100km economy! We've gotta ban that.. its so fast. But its ok for a P-Plater with about 30 to 35 grand to buy a 1995 Lotus Elise, I mean, its only got an 88kW 1.8 4cyl... lets overlook the fact that its faster then a VZ R8, and about 100 times harder to drive...

I wonder how many other cars like this they deemed as being "safe for p platers" ?

[merlin]

Originally Posted by Steffo

What's funny is, a 170kW EL XR8, is slower then a 182kW BA XT. The XT is legal, the XR8 isn't. Oh, an EF/EL XR8 is 1566kg, the BA XT is 1672kg.

The logic behind these rules is so flawed I don't know where to begin...

But the XR8 would make more torque much lower in the rev range, meaning it would be easier to get out of shape - just making an observation not defending the blanket law (it should be power to weight based).

[PULLY6]

Lets be honest, how many P-Platers die in high-po cars? Cut that percentage out, and yes, the government then has a statistic to show how the new laws have made such a difference on our roads blah blah blah.

A proportion of crashes happen because young people are forced to drive 80's boxes which have no safety features whatsoever - why? Because the government puts so many fees on any higher priced car. Want to buy a $5000 car? Sure, just pay the associated $1500 stamp duty, transfer of rego, CTP premium, no worries.
Whereas you can go out, buy a $300 bomb and pay sweet f*k all - whats easier?

Another huge proportion of crashes happen IN THE FAMILY CAR! Any Commodore or Falcon of the post-1970's era is capable of ridiculous speeds (150+).

This has gotta stop!! Its f*ked. I can see a ban on young people obtaining a licence until they're 25...

[outback_ute]

Yes they have some way to go to get all the loopholes (I can’t imagine why they didn’t add hi-po 4 cyl’s together with 6s…) but you can’t argue with the intention behind the restrictions. Of course you should be learning how to drive in a “shopping trolley” not a road rocket, it is like learning to fly in a Cessna not an F16. Likewise you can’t just go hop behind the wheel of a B-double.

You complain about being able to drive a BA XT but not an EL XR8, or not being able to drive a 253 – well it is not all about the power or power to weight. In the US there are crash statistics that prove a 2 door car is several times more likely to be involved in a crash than the all-but identical 4 door equivalent. Conclusion – certain cars attract the wrong “attitude”. Of course taking someone out of an SS Commie and putting them in an Astra is not necessarily going to make them more mature or experienced but it will remove a lot of the temptation.

They still need to do something about proper training and licensing standards (in the too-hard basket no doubt) but this is a step in the right direction. Hopefully the nsurance companies will be smart enough to back up the restrictions too.

Finally driving is a privilege not a right – what makes you think you have the “right” to drive a hotted up car or V8 on your Ps?

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Of course taking someone out of an SS Commie and putting them in an Astra is not necessarily going to make them more mature or experienced but it will remove a lot of the temptation.

I personally know several people who would make you seriously re-consider that statement. How's about a 1985 Honda Civic 1.5 being driven as if its a Ferrari F2005? These people will be f***wits in whatever car you give them, be it a 36km/h Citroen 2CV Charleston or a 404km/h Porsche Dauer 962 LeMans. They'll find one way or another of being a stupid **** in them. This legislation is not going to work because it does not address the real problem, DRIVER ATTITUDE.

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Finally driving is a privilege not a right – what makes you think you have the “right” to drive a hotted up car or V8 on your Ps?

The fact that Australia claims to being a free, equal rights, equal opportunities country. If everyone else can own a BA XT 220 V8, why can't a 17 - 19 year old? Because some poorly researched "statistics" say that a 15 sec V8 sedan is more likely to be involved in an accident then a 15 sec 6cyl sedan of exactly the same make and model? Not only that, but with the XT 220, you have to option up some better suspension and alloys, by default from Ford - the bigger, better tyres and (LSD I think it is?) will make it a safer car to drive then the equal performance 6cyl model. Cars like XR8s and XR6 Turbo's are not dangerous until you give them to a moron. The factory's ultimate goal is to give you a sporty type vehicle so easy to drive that Grandma can get in and go shopping without and intimidation or difficulty.

What is the Government going to do, when instead of having "P-Plater dies in high-powered car" sprayed accross newspaper headlines, they get "P-Plater dies in Hyundai Excel?" I'll tell you what they're going to do, get kicked OUT of office, like Carr and the ALP should have been a LONG TIME ago. Everything they do is a failure, not just road rules. Time for a change NSW, after a decade of crap.

Take this post as you will, just my two cents.

[FordGirl]

The thing is, this can't be stopped.

The Government will keep bringing more laws into place to stop "hooning" on the streets, they'll restrict P platers from driving high-performance cars, driving at night, driving with passengers, etc. I guarantee there will still be accidents and people will *still* find a way to kill themselves.

I see the Governments point of view in stopping high-performance cars as it allows people to get to high speeds quicker (most cars will do high enough speeds to kill you instantly, but high performance cars will get there quicker). At the end of the day though, I still have friends who drive their Hyundai Excels harder and faster than I drive my XR8 Sprint.

There is no way to solve this short of having satelites which monitor everybodies speed no matter where you are in the country.

[Steffo]

The way to solve this is to remove Carr from the NSW State Government, Bracks from Victoria (Gotta help those poor buggers.. the guy's gotta be the stupidest politician I've ever heard of) etc.. and replace them with people who actually know what they are doing, and people who actually give a damn about other people, not about lining their pockets with greed camera money.

There needs to be an attitude adjustment, not a vehicle restriction.

[RED_EL_XR8]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I personally know several people who would make you seriously re-consider that statement. How's about a 1985 Honda Civic 1.5 being driven as if its a Ferrari F2005? These people will be f***wits in whatever car you give them, be it a 36km/h Citroen 2CV Charleston or a 404km/h Porsche Dauer 962 LeMans. They'll find one way or another of being a stupid **** in them. This legislation is not going to work because it does not address the real problem, DRIVER ATTITUDE.

Then lets attach their P-Plates to something that makes a lesser dent. This arguement would be just fuel to those that would like to see the under 20's not drive at all.

Originally Posted by Steffo

The fact that Australia claims to being a free, equal rights, equal opportunities country. If everyone else can own a BA XT 220 V8, why can't a 17 - 19 year old? Because some poorly researched "statistics" say that a 15 sec V8 sedan is more likely to be involved in an accident then a 15 sec 6cyl sedan of exactly the same make and model? Not only that, but with the XT 220, you have to option up some better suspension and alloys, by default from Ford - the bigger, better tyres and (LSD I think it is?) will make it a safer car to drive then the equal performance 6cyl model. Cars like XR8s and XR6 Turbo's are not dangerous until you give them to a moron.

No point in getting into a flap about restrictions applying to cars the majority of young drivers will not be able to afford or will not have access to. Yes there are always exceptions. But like it on not the statistics are not in favour of sportier cars. And I'm talking insurance company statistics not som RTA guff.

I don't subscribe to the "driving is a privilege" rabble, driving is a right but its a right that comes with responsibilities, that responsibility includes developing road skills as well as car craft. A good driver would want to drive something appropriate to limited exposure to driving on the road before progressing to more powerful cars. Those without the patience to wait and develop theirs skill will most likely lack the patience needed to drive safely too.

I've heard it all before, yes there are vehicles on the list that dont make sense, yes there are older drivers that will always be hazards, but like it or not, the basic idea if these laws make sense, even if the execution is less than the best.