Major head work needed

EB Pete · 28-03-2006, 05:50 PM

well as the names states i need me head worked to get it up into the relm of 170rwkw but can't find a decent place to do it. i'm from tooowoomba qld and need it done asap cause i get the block and bottom end back friday. so if anyone knows of a good place to get it done please let me know. in qld would be better.thanks
pete

EB Pete · 28-03-2006, 10:56 PM

i've done a search on the internet and got a place. they said about 880. is that adout right?

EF_Frmnt · 28-03-2006, 11:03 PM

what exactly did they quote you for mate?? Try browns engineering in lawnton qld.. should be in the yellow pages somewhere they do good quality work. i know a few people who have had trouble free work done there, the boss is an older fella that is meticulous about his work.

EB Pete · 28-03-2006, 11:10 PM

they call it a stage 1 mod and it includes:
• Heads Fully Reconditioned
• Hardened exhaust seats to suit Unleaded Petrol/LPG
• Full set of bronze guides
• Multi angle valve seat job
• Heads street ported
• Heads machined to suit positive valve stem seals
• New intake valves
• New exhaust valves
• Larger valves fitted where necessary
• Performance valve springs & chromoly retainers fitted
• Hardened collets
• Positive stem seals

where abouts is browns? brisbane?

EF_Frmnt · 28-03-2006, 11:17 PM

yeah brisbane... northside.. they will probly just use XR valves they are a few mm bigger.. but i would want to be clear on exactly what you are getting not just if necessary.

BOOSTDEF · 29-03-2006, 12:46 AM

www.altedperformance.com on the sunny coast.

Does a great job and probably the cheapest around.

He drives an xr6 which hammers so he knows his stuff.

ebs_4l · 29-03-2006, 03:48 AM

id look into kostecki engine centre! on their site they list a cnc ported 4l head flow of 500hp!! thats insane, previous best ive heard of was 380hp, thats who i'd get to do my next one

vegabass · 29-03-2006, 05:18 PM

anyone else with altered stuff?

EB Pete · 29-03-2006, 07:50 PM

the place i'm sending it to is called free flow cylinder heads in brissy. at 0.500' lift it gives 361hp intake and 253hp exhaust and the C.F.M is 140.22 and 98.28 respectively. is that any good? they also said they can port out and polish the intake manifold by cutting off the throttle body and the shaft that joins to it for $400. would that make a difference? i think it would make a huge difference, but thats me and i know ИИИИ all about this stuff. and i checked out that altedperformance web site but they don't tell ya anything.

heckaz performance · 31-03-2006, 11:50 AM

Look buddy, The would flow close to that stock, I wouldn't let anyone touch it without a flow bench. It should be flow tested before being touched as most of the time people touch your heads, they flow worse. If it flows want you want stock, leave it alone, just a reco. EB head flows as much as a ported AU head.

Aaron_EF8 · 31-03-2006, 02:56 PM

heckaz - It's the other way around, a stock AU I6 head flows more an an E-Series XR head.....

ebs_4l · 31-03-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

Look buddy, The would flow close to that stock

the best std flow was the eb xr6 head, which was just under 320hp... 361hp is actually a fairly respectable flow figure

heckaz performance · 31-03-2006, 06:59 PM

Do your Homework and some of the early model big port heads have flowed up to 360hp stock. There's heaps of different e-series heads, so if it gets flowed it'll be fact not heresay. Either way its enough for the 170kw @ wheels the guy was chasing.

heckaz performance · 31-03-2006, 07:01 PM

And I'm telling you, the Early heads have flowed more, I can post the flow figures if you want to be proven a goose.

Walkinshaw · 31-03-2006, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

Do your Homework and some of the early model big port heads have flowed up to 360hp stock.

hrmmm...let me see.........whats the best way to put this

EB Pete · 31-03-2006, 07:50 PM

yeah righto post the figures it'll be good to see what they are stock. i'll get them to flow mine (if it don't cost me to much) and then after they do the job. what is the advantage of multi angled seats? and one more thing when i stripped the intake manifold i found that all the injectors were deteariorating on the ends. how much would new better injectors be? and should i replace that sensor (think it's air flow) or just put it back in? thanks for the help so far

ebs_4l · 01-04-2006, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

Do your Homework and some of the early model big port heads have flowed up to 360hp stock. There's heaps of different e-series heads, so if it gets flowed it'll be fact not heresay. Either way its enough for the 170kw @ wheels the guy was chasing.

mate, you are dreaming.... why would any head porter, inc jmm waste their time and money to make something flow what you say it can stock??

heckaz performance · 01-04-2006, 12:35 PM

They go for the smaller ports of the later models for greater airspeed. Most people reckon that the early model heads are too big like clevo heads.

Most people don't ask, but headwork only starts after dev 3HL, which is around 135rwkw, even with the low flowing 280-300hp AU head.

The EB head flows at least 50hp more (330-350hp@0.500 depending on model,more at greater lift), than a stock AU head , so with the right cam I feel 170rwkw is achievable with an early head. Some AU's are getting 145rwkw+ with the stock head, so It's possible for sure.

A high flow head can be made using stock Ford parts, The Head can flow more if:
the thin stem valves, from an EF are fitted,
If the fingers are removed from combustion chamber (where present),
If it is given a good quality valve seat job,
If valve guides are tapered in port area,
Larger valves from XR's or AU are fitted,
It is tested at higher lift.
Most of which can be specified during reconditioning.

Also, after a general reco the head, can often flow more than stock, due to more time (than FORD) being spent on areas such as the valve seats, and guides.

I am also sure that a head ported by JMM would flow even higher, but the less you need them to do, the less it will cost.
Best to have the highest flowing head for starters as it will only flow more, in the end.

Walkinshaw · 01-04-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

Some AU's are getting 145rwkw+ with the stock head, so It's possible for sure.

Ive got more than 145 with a stock EL head.

Early heads (EA's) have much smaller ports than later EF/L heads.

Higest flowing stock head (from EA1 to AU3) is the EB XR6. 320-330bhp. No other stock head flows this much.

heckaz performance · 01-04-2006, 12:53 PM

Has someone actually tested the rare models, like the EB S, SS, SVO or Brock? Apparently the SS was made for the production car races from the word GO and their were only a handful made for the street.

jonbays · 01-04-2006, 01:22 PM

Well I have got 144rwkw with a stock AU head and its an auto.

150rwkw is possible with a stock head. I have seen loxxr6's dev5 cammed manual AU XR6 do 151rwkw at a dyno day. It is possible.

Over 150rwkw E-A series always have some fairly good headwork done to get there. I have seen a few good SOHC falcon sixes run 162 to 173rwkw. but... these were all manuals with headwork but still stock ecu. with dizzy so ign advance was good for top fuel on a dyno day though!

I reckon there is a good 10rwkw in a decent head job. Not so much ported out to max flow more port straightening to reduce turbulence than just opening them up!

I would like to get 160rwkw odd out of mine without losing the daily driver capability of the auto wagon but its not so easy with an auto. If i find a way I will post it up. I am fairly sure this will involve some headwork. Cam alone not sure it will do it.

vegabass · 01-04-2006, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

Has someone actually tested the rare models, like the EB S, SS, SVO or Brock? Apparently the SS was made for the production car races from the word GO and their were only a handful made for the street.

its no good to us if there was a handful floating arround there, they would be expensive to buy. I have got 160rwkw from my EL XR head. its only been shaved 30 thou with a dev 2 cam

heckaz performance · 01-04-2006, 01:51 PM

Thats (160rwkw) the stuff that shows it can be done! Holy crap thats good power, especially with a dev 2 cam (small). My guess is you have chosen a (very!)well matched cam, extractors, exhaust combo. Does it have tuning mods vegabass?

vegabass · 01-04-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

Thats (160rwkw) the stuff that shows it can be done! Holy crap thats good power, especially with a dev 2 cam (small). My guess is you have chosen a (very!)well matched cam, extractors, exhaust combo. Does it have tuning mods vegabass?

That was done on the Chiptorque Dyno, I have the Dev2 kit JMM exhaust and extractors leads plugs bla bla bla

I have a chip for the manual conversion i had 145rwkw with the auto and no chip.

so a gain of 15 rwkw with the manual conversion and the chip....the chip gave only a few extra kw's but I know theres more in it

Im getting a MegaSquit2 system with wide band sensors I believe once a good tune is in ill get 165rwkw.

EB Pete · 01-04-2006, 03:15 PM

i own an EB S. why would the flow rate in it be any different to the standed head? i'm going to get this head work done aswell as the intake manifold (not bothering about the bbm intake) and throw in a crow stage 4 cam. i hope it gets it up to 170rwkw but we will see how it goes. thanks for the help.

ebs_4l · 01-04-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heckaz performance

The EB head flows at least 50hp more (330-350hp@0.500 depending on model,more at greater lift), than a stock AU head

no it doesnt, have you ever seen the autospeed article done by (cant remember now) which showed what to do to an au head to get if flowing good, the comparison was with an eb xr head, it flowed from memory 25hp more std than au, when ported, it was easier/cheaper to make the same (from memory 360hp) out of the au head than the earlier ones.. it required less work

oh, and flow tapered off after 500', it basically gained nothing

heckaz performance · 01-04-2006, 11:06 PM

Flow does taper off over 0.500 but still increases. One article doesn't some up every head in existance, and is a very small group to study. Other articles have also quoted the AU head being as low as 261hp in some cases. There are freaks that flow more or less than the norm, stats should be taken from several heads not just one. I am pretty sure the head porter chose to go the AU head to get more airspeed down low by getting the same flow with smaller ports. Still, I doubt it was "easier/cheaper" to get another 60hp out of a head as opposed to getting an extra 30hp if the EB head were used. The valves from the an EF and a valve seat job would most likely get the EB head there. AU heads also have better rocker gear with less sideways thrust on the rockers, apparently.

Anyway, many people have made more power than their head flows, especially AU's (luck buggers with EDIT mostly)

And read the damn article yourself, it quotes on the low side of mine, for one dirty old unloved head.
Many people have shmicked up and reco'd their EB stuff by now, with the head guys, using their noggin, to increase flow over what happened on the production line, Even on just a reco. Its the little things like valve seats, and guides that can make a small but measurable increase in flow. Ask the speedway guys, where in some classes no porting is allowed, they can get another 25hp flow with a clever valveseat job.

ST09RM · 01-04-2006, 11:19 PM

any places like this in NSW??

EB Pete · 01-04-2006, 11:26 PM

well in my search for a place in queensland i came across a place called race tech (think there in NSW) which got the head to flow at 145 C.F.M. just go to there website and see where it is, as i'm not sure.

heckaz performance · 01-04-2006, 11:38 PM

I'm giving the game away as it is here guys. Cost me $10 000 to learn this stuff (mods on EF). Try the speedway magazines, and ask for someone experienced with speedway "stock" classes, head mods, where no porting is allowed. They know what they can gain.