Copped a fine from the EPA...

[rayjaymor]

Hey Guys,

So, I copped a fine from the EPA today.

The details of my car, and it's location are all accurate just to be clear.
What is a total load of crap is they are claiming I threw a cigarette butt out of my car.

So, even ignoring the fact that I don't even smoke... I generally would never throw something out the window of my car... ever...

With this in mind, the ONLY evidence they could possibly have is some idiot who got my car confused with a different one, or some ****** who has a grudge on me.

So, to anyone out there who speaks any legalese... if I have three stat decs from the other passengers in my car at the time saying they know I don't smoke, and did not observe me either smoking or disposing of a cigarette butt out my window -- plus my own stat dec that has me saying the same thing, plus photos of my ash-tray to show that it's in pristine condition and has never been used as an ashtray...

What are my chances this will stick up in court?

I know the fine is only $250, but for me it's the principle of the thing (plus, I'm kind of a greenie... I really don't like the idea of having a record that says I'm a smoker or one of those ****bags that throws stuff out of their car).

[GasoLane]

Something else for your defence.............

It's quite possible that you drove over or close to a butt that someone else threw from a car.

The slipstream from you going past would have made it move and spark, especially at night.

I'm sure other members here have seen this.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by rayjaymor

Hey Guys,

So, I copped a fine from the EPA today.

The details of my car, and it's location are all accurate just to be clear.
What is a total load of crap is they are claiming I threw a cigarette butt out of my car.

So, even ignoring the fact that I don't even smoke... I generally would never throw something out the window of my car... ever...

With this in mind, the ONLY evidence they could possibly have is some idiot who got my car confused with a different one, or some ****** who has a grudge on me.

So, to anyone out there who speaks any legalese... if I have three stat decs from the other passengers in my car at the time saying they know I don't smoke, and did not observe me either smoking or disposing of a cigarette butt out my window -- plus my own stat dec that has me saying the same thing, plus photos of my ash-tray to show that it's in pristine condition and has never been used as an ashtray...

What are my chances this will stick up in court?

I know the fine is only $250, but for me it's the principle of the thing (plus, I'm kind of a greenie... I really don't like the idea of having a record that says I'm a smoker or one of those ****bags that throws stuff out of their car).

You will more than likely need to dispute the fine, there should be in the fine details to do this. Or you will need to dispute the fine in court, where they may need to call up the person who reported you as a witness.

[Adamz Ghia]

I have used the EPA app on a number of occasions, but for Christ sake if you use these apps you've gotta be 100% sure you saw what you think you saw. I've had passengers tell me hey saw something but if I didn't see it myself and actually see the butt or litter leave their window I'm not reporting them.

I have been told in the past these were not able to be challenged but there is a notice on the app now that says if you use the app to report you must be prepared to appear in court so if you provide a stat dec you should be fine.

[rayjaymor]

The funny thing is, I support the idea of the app.

I get truly ****ed off when I see people throw rubbish away, and I get ropeable when I go bushwalking and see garbage everywhere.

Having said that... seriously... if you're going to report someone you need to be 100%.

Whoever made this report is probably falsely accusing other people as well.

[arronm]

WTF, I cant believe this a fine from a do-gooder. What a joke.

[paule11]

Surely that cant hold up in court without video evidence

[Boosted8]

Play the technicalities.

It wasn't your butt. It was merely thrown up in the slipstream of your vehicle after another driver threw it onto the road.

[The Yeti]

I've tried to use the app when I saw a guy unloading a couch off his ute on a bare section of my road,

How it unfolded was I stopped and told the not to be such a ducking grub he told me to **** off I did and took photos of his car and stopes and shot a phone video of him throwing **** off his ute (and got a great vid of him giving me a two handed single finger salute and yelling abuse) I used the app then they called me back and told me it was a council issue, sent it all
To council and the council told me they would clean it but I needed to go to the EPA and told me about the app ��

I understand the apps been improved and littering etc now works better, but if you arnt guilty and don't smoke I'd simply send a letter stating as much and you should be fine.

The big problem with Apps like this is people can easily use it when they have a grudge with some one, say you cut some one off, old mate has the cranks and reports you tossed a butt out the window at that location, (as you said vehicle details and location are correct)

I would assume a large portion of these fines get disputed and it's probably a rubber stamp thing

[Blue Shadow]

These depts. that are trying to turn everyone into a plastic policeman are a joke.

There would be a set of proofs for the offence, you will need to find out what they are

Also if you were driving and the knob with the app was following, you have to wonder why he didn't get a ticket for using the device whilst driving.

[The Yeti]

I agree that using people with phones as cops is pretty ordinary, but what's the answer, grubs that are to lazy to take their rubbish to the destination and put in the bin at home just tossing maccas crap out the window. Bush and grass fires started by cigarette butts being flung from the moving car because they don't want the filthy thing stinking up their car? Should it just continue with no ramifications for the grubs???

I don't like these apps but I don't have a more appropriate alternative to suggest

[PCT302]

I had a friend who had a similar fine sent to him ( country town in victoria ) he went to the police and told them he would go to court and contest the fine, about 2 weeks later he was told the charge had been dropped ( he was told unofficially the person who reported the incident did not wish to go to court so the charge was dropped)

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Blue Shadow

These depts. that are trying to turn everyone into a plastic policeman are a joke.

There would be a set of proofs for the offence, you will need to find out what they are

Also if you were driving and the knob with the app was following, you have to wonder why he didn't get a ticket for using the device whilst driving.

Sounds like Australia is on it's way to becoming a Nazi Germany to me with all this crap of dobbing in people.

Only a cop should deal with such things, not rubbish of what some fool believes or try's to make out and then you have to deal with such total moronic clowns who think they are the law.

Want to be cops that could not cut the grade if they tried.

[OzriderXR8]

I got one of these years ago and basically contested it it saying I didn't smoke and asked for the proof that it was thrown from my car. It was dismissed.

Riding a motorbike to work everyday I personally would like to be able to pull them over and beat the crap out of them for throwing butts out the window. Nothing worse than getting hit in the face with a burning smoke butt.

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

I would defend it, and ask for proof. People see Yowies, Jesus and whatever. For a Red light ticket, they need a Photo. Same as a speed Camera which has to be calibrated. Maybe under freedom of info you can find out who and have them charged for making a false report !

First step would be ring someone and explain the situation. Offer to E Mail a photo of your hand, teeth and ashtray...... Try the simple things first Do gooders can be a pain, but Cigs do start bushfires.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by BFGasUte

First step would be ring someone and explain the situation. Offer to E Mail a photo of your hand, teeth and ashtray...... Try the simple things first Do gooders can be a pain, but Cigs do start bushfires.

Don't do this, the onus is on the EPA to prove you committed the offence, you don't have to prove you didn't do it. Besides, you'd be doing their dirty work for them.

Take it to court, as the muppet who dobbed you in has to front up to present evidence (as a witness). If they don't, you could be clever and have costs awarded against them for your day off work and incidentals. If they do, they'll perjure themselves and you can skin them that way.

It will teach them a lesson to not be a cowardly dobber.

[BFGasUte]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Don't do this, the onus is on the EPA to prove you committed the offence, you don't have to prove you didn't do it. Besides, you'd be doing their dirty work for them.

Take it to court, as the muppet who dobbed you in has to front up to present evidence (as a witness). If they don't, you could be clever and have costs awarded against them for your day off work and incidentals. If they do, they'll perjure themselves and you can skin them that way.

It will teach them a lesson to not be a cowardly dobber.

Hello,

If you contact them, it may be all forgotten, ( saving time and hassles ) but if it does go to Court it shows an effort has been made. Many authorities will back down if they know you wont take Crap. And yes if it does go to Court go for lost pay defending it. I have done this, and got money.

[Blue Shadow]

Have a read of this. It relates to Victoria, the last 2 paragraphs are interesting to say the least



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/e...-1226565976060

[BPXR6T]

Originally Posted by OzriderXR8

I got one of these years ago and basically contested it it saying I didn't smoke and asked for the proof that it was thrown from my car. It was dismissed.

Riding a motorbike to work everyday I personally would like to be able to pull them over and beat the crap out of them for throwing butts out the window. Nothing worse than getting hit in the face with a burning smoke butt.

Interested to know if you had costs awarded to you? If not its a bit of a pyrrhic victory isn't it. I guess these grubby departments rely on people deciding to just pay up even if innocent. Immoral.

[rayjaymor]

Cheers everyone, well, I'm gonna do up a stat dec and request the SDRO review the infringement.

Wish me luck, I'll let you know how it goes

[JC]

Originally Posted by Blue Shadow

Have a read of this. It relates to Victoria, the last 2 paragraphs are interesting to say the least



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/e...-1226565976060

Very interesting - especially the clarification:

EPA spokeswoman Tanya O'Shea said fined motorists needed to prove their innocence to the EPA - not the EPA to prove their guilt.



Clarification

Ms O'Shea said she had been misquoted.

She said: "Under law drivers of motor vehicles have to take responsibility for litter deposited from their vehicles, however a statutory declaration can be provided in instances when the infringement notice is incorrect."

[arronm]

Telling lies. That's a paddling.

[ianxy351]

Originally Posted by rayjaymor

Cheers everyone, well, I'm gonna do up a stat dec and request the SDRO review the infringement.

Wish me luck, I'll let you know how it goes

Ok, so here is how things should work:

1. An infringement notice is an 'invitation' to you to settle the matter by paying a sum of money rather than going to court;
2. if you refuse to pay the fine you go to court and normal processes apply - so the person who made the complaint must provide evidence (which could be verbal evidence, a photo, dash cam clip, etc).
3. If there is no evidence you should be acquitted and costs awarded.
4. you are not required to provided evidence that you are innocent - that is not how our legal system works. In fact, the less you say until provided with conclusive evidence the better.

Your stat dec should therefore dispute that it was you and ask for evidence that it was you who committed the alleged offence. If you dont get any evidence, or the complainant declines to come forward, you should be free and clear. If there is evidence you will need to deal with it subject to what that evidence shows (was it your car, etc).

[OzriderXR8]

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

Interested to know if you had costs awarded to you? If not its a bit of a pyrrhic victory isn't it. I guess these grubby departments rely on people deciding to just pay up even if innocent. Immoral.

It never went that far, a letter was all that was needed.

I'm pretty sure they need to prove you done it rather than you prove you didn't.

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by JC

Very interesting - especially the clarification:

EPA spokeswoman Tanya O'Shea said fined motorists needed to prove their innocence to the EPA - not the EPA to prove their guilt.



Clarification

Ms O'Shea said she had been misquoted.

She said: "Under law drivers of motor vehicles have to take responsibility for litter deposited from their vehicles, however a statutory declaration can be provided in instances when the infringement notice is incorrect."

Yeah, a bit half baked. Not sure whats going on there, maybe she just got off her high horse.

[ebxr8240]

So there's no spit on butt ? Lol

[jaydee]

You have a pic of your ash tray and never been used... thats because you throw your butts out the window.

Noooo only joking, but that was what just popped into my head.

If it goes to Court then the reporting person will need to give a statement and attend Court as well, will never happen, but in the mean time you have to jump through hoops.

[Gypzy]

I'm no angel, and may have on occasion done some slightly illegal things in my previous years! One thing i, or any of my mates have not done is damage any one elses property, cause any type of harm to any one else but our selves, or stole anything from any one else. I was brought up with good morals, and to respect other people, and other peoples property. I'd like to think the same goes for a big majority of people that visit AFF.

I couldn't really give a XXXX if someone threw macas out the window. Someone else just has to clean it up. A couch, TV, concrete rubble.... dumped in the bush, someone else just has to clean it up. A ciggy butt out the window in suburbia, not to worried about that, but when it comes to blattenly flicking one out the window, into dry grass on the side of the H/Way, only to start a fire, now you got me peed off! Even thrown out on a duel lane, onto the road and the next car swirls it around and into the grass, now you got me peed off! I see it alot, and have seen these fires come real close to people houses. If they are lucky, the loose a shed or chook house or dog kennel in the back yard.

I would have no problem at all standing up in court, with my absolute 100% being sure of what i saw, and with my dash cam video of the event/act of a brain dead idiot throwing a butt out the window. The result being that someone else will have to clean it up. The Fire guy will put it out! The owners of the property will clean it up.

[Adamz Ghia]

Yeah it's cowardly to report it. Guess you wouldn't mind if I just dump my rubbish in your front yard.

[Gypzy]

And there is one example of someone who dosn't give a XXXX about anyone else but themselfes.