Redundant in 1 week.

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 08:24 PM

Hi all you may have read my previous posts about Coghlan Russell Engineering going bad, well the doors close on the 14/6/07. One of the big customers have approached me as they are pulling all their machinery and tooling out of the place and re-locating it to their own premises on the outskirts of Melbourne. They want me also. Now, i know the ins and outs of this particular set up and they want me to go with them to set up a efficient work cell and train their current employees to run the machinery and change tooling. I live in Geelong with my wife and 3 sons. They were willing to pay accomodation for me to stay up there, but that is not viable for me. I have no problem with travelling up and back each day but this is where my dillemma begins. They need me real bad so would it be wrong of me to ask for a car and fuel card and stay on the same wage that im on now ? Use my own car and they pay for fuel but i want a bigger wage to compensate for wear and tear ? Any suggestions would be great as i have never been in this situation where the ball is in my court. BOTTOM LINE IS, THEY NEED ME. THEY KNOW THAT.

**Polyal** · 07-06-2007, 08:31 PM

Mate for now be happy that you have something, im tipping most dont.

And its perfectly fine for you to talk about fuel expenses etc, you obviously are wanted. Do it in a professional manner and im sure you can come to some agreement.

Also perhaps ask about long term? What happens when you train the other people up? If they are paying for your accommodation then I hope there plans are not temporary.

Any reason why you cant move to Melbourne?

Thornie · 07-06-2007, 08:37 PM

ask for it, the worst they are going to do is say no, if they really, really need you they will say yes

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 08:39 PM

Absolutely mate. Im happy that im wanted but im still very concerned for my work mates who are facing a bleak future as of next Thursday. This is a absolute shocking situation for anyone to be in. I am still one of them as my negotiations with this client could crash anytime. Maybe this could serve as a warning to anyone else in the Automotive Industry as its very un-stable at the moment and it aint gonna get any better. The problem here was caused by the ex-director (hopefully he has been hung by now)

:

**Polyal** · 07-06-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

Absolutely mate. Im happy that im wanted but im still very concerned for my work mates who are facing a bleak future as of next Thursday. This is a absolute shocking situation for anyone to be in. I am still one of them as my negotiations with this client could crash anytime. Maybe this could serve as a warning to anyone else in the Automotive Industry as its very un-stable at the moment and it aint gonna get any better.

So are you going to be contracted? Or sign something?

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

So are you going to be contracted? Or sign something?

Short term contract. Maybe 3 mths, could be 6 or could be permanent.

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

ask for it, the worst they are going to do is say no, if they really, really need you they will say yes

True, and they really, really do need me. They are a global Company so what i want is just loose change from them really. 159 factories in 36 countries with 171,000 employees = Im not asking for much. Im only a C2 Machinist where i am now so to step up to running a cell and training people to run it, anyone in their right mind would be asking for just a little bit more.

**Fordman1** · 07-06-2007, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

Absolutely mate. Im happy that im wanted but im still very concerned for my work mates who are facing a bleak future as of next Thursday. This is a absolute shocking situation for anyone to be in. I am still one of them as my negotiations with this client could crash anytime. Maybe this could serve as a warning to anyone else in the Automotive Industry as its very un-stable at the moment and it aint gonna get any better.

Sit down in a professional manner with the company's management and discuss the role they envisage you filling in their business.

Ask about the employment conditions, pay, hours and your responsibilities. You should find out if they see at as a short to medium term contract, or a full time long term career for you with them.

If you want the role and are happy with the conditions take the job (unless you have something better lined up). Remember you need to provide for your family at least in the short term and you will be doing something and dealing with processes you are familiar with !

Don't be afraid to tell them of your concerns regarding travel and ask for compensation in your 'employment package'. ie: either a car & fuel, or a prehaps a "lump sum" or "travel time" payment as compensation for your out of pocket expenses and the time you miss with your family because of the long distances (and time) you travel.

If you don't ask and discuss your concerns with them you won't get what you want. Do the above (and if you want the opportunity behave as if you're excited about the new role) and you probably won't be disappointed.

Good luck mate !!

Hunter · 07-06-2007, 09:00 PM

Its not Ford Motor Company is it? I don't think its unreasonable to ask for the car in lieu of transport.

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 09:01 PM

Thanks Barraxr8, Thats exactly the kind of advice i was after. I was reluctant to push them too far as i thought that it may go against me but you have made me realise, HEY what have i got to lose. Thanks Heaps, its greatly appreciated.

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

Its not Ford Motor Company is it? I don't think its unreasonable to ask for the car in lieu of transport.

No mate, Its not FoMoCo. Wouldnt mind a offer from them though. (HINT HINT) lol.

Bossxr8 · 07-06-2007, 09:07 PM

I don't think fuel costs are too much to ask for, considering they know your situation. If they really want you that shouldn't be a problem. A car might be a bit much though. Paid travel time might be an option.

Jason[98.EL] · 07-06-2007, 09:13 PM

adam i cant ad any more than what barraxr8 has said

ask the questions

if the really want you the will come to a good agreement that is good for both parties

i just wish my boss would get his head out of his *** and see the same in me

jason

**Fordman1** · 07-06-2007, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

Thanks Barraxr8, Thats exactly the kind of advice i was after. I was reluctant to push them too far as i thought that it may go against me but you have made me realise, HEY what have i got to lose. Thanks Heaps, its greatly appreciated.

If they are an international company they will be experienced in these situations so nothing will surprise of shock them. They would have policies and a history of situations that are similair to yours. Ask them about their "travel time" and other policies for situations such as this and how you will be included in these.

Try to get them to seperate your compensation package for the work and training you will be providing (remember you won't simply be a machinest anymore, you will be training or supervising other as well, so you should get more than the guy operating the machines), and the travel issues you will have. The two issues are seperate so:

1. You should be payed according to the work you will be doing (training, setting up & supervising NOT machining).

2. You should be payed for the "travel" and "time traveling" (you are doing them a favour but you really need to be compensated for this which is really going to affect you family

_2: ).

Show them you're excited and really want to help them out (and you're passionate about the job you've been doing at C&R) but you want to be FAIRLY rewarded for a job you will do to the best of your ability.

If there is some federal or state government help you can get in the near term that will help with negotiation skills and or advise on what you should be asking for and how to present your requests, take it (not sure if that is out there as part of the federal funding for situations such as yours).

Things will work out !

phoon · 07-06-2007, 09:34 PM

Lease payments on a car will cost them alot less than short term accomodation costs. what you need to establish, is the position on offer short term or long term (permanant). If long term, I could understand them baulking at a car, but short term I wouldnt think would be an issue for them. Also the larger the company, the more open they will be about your request as a car could be costly for a small business, its not all that bad fro a larger company if they already have a fleet arrangement.

Thornie · 07-06-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

True, and they really, really do need me. They are a global Company so what i want is just loose change from them really. 159 factories in 36 countries with 171,000 employees = Im not asking for much. Im only a C2 Machinist where i am now so to step up to running a cell and training people to run it, anyone in their right mind would be asking for just a little bit more.

isn't c2 really really good, the firm i work for a c10 machinist is pretty much someone who has only pretty much done there apprenticship and thats it no extra training i think the highest we have is a c6.

im stuck in the middle overqualified as a laborer and not trade qualified 5 years exp in fabrication. got denied a job just the other week because the guy thought i was overqualified for the postion :(

Smoke Pursuit · 07-06-2007, 09:38 PM

If they are willing to pay accomodation then Fuel cost wont be an issue, not sure if they would give you a car though...

Racecraft · 07-06-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

I was reluctant to push them too far as i thought that it may go against me but you have made me realise, HEY what have i got to lose.

Well, depending on your financial position the moment the doors come down., 3 months or more of a pay cheque. Sit down and work it out with them, accommodation vs travel allowance is a common query that most bigger companies deal with on a frequent basis.

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phoon

Lease payments on a car will cost them alot less than short term accomodation costs. what you need to establish, is the position on offer short term or long term (permanant). If long term, I could understand them baulking at a car, but short term I wouldnt think would be an issue for them. Also the larger the company, the more open they will be about your request as a car could be costly for a small business, its not all that bad fro a larger company if they already have a fleet arrangement.

Thats my opinion too. At the moment it is only a short term proposition, hence me wanting a car but if it was to turn into full time then i would relinguish the car and have to look at buying a (cringe) small 4 pot.

DOC · 07-06-2007, 10:12 PM

If your saying you want a novated lease / fuel card ,? sounds great but been there and done that, i would rather a travel alowance and use my own car, or use their car and fuel but not in your name. ^ months down the track if they don't luvs ya anymore your stuck with no job and an extra car to pay for. Yes you can sell the car but then expect to loose money on it unless well thought out before hand.

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 10:19 PM

Im loving all this advice. Keep it coming as i need as much of as i can get. The key player is submitting their proposal to me on Tuesday for negotiation. We shut up shop on Thursday, but i have a week or two to negotiate final settlement. Thanks guys, the advice i have received already has been a huge help.

07-06-2007, 10:42 PM

Hey Adam i would be getting them to supply a car mate... Lease Cars are a very cheap thing these days on the wear and tear part mostly cos of the warranty's they provide on them from new.... Fuel for a big company is cheap too cos they get most of it back through tax and rebates so thats should be a drop in the ocean for them too....
The best thing you have atm Adam is that you have a bit of power over the agreement too so you can set terms and if they really want you they will compromise.....

And more importantly.... GOOD LUCK!!!!

Nostalgia · 07-06-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xgme

Hey Adam i would be getting them to supply a car mate... Lease Cars are a very cheap thing these days on the wear and tear part mostly cos of the warranty's they provide on them from new.... Fuel for a big company is cheap too cos they get most of it back through tax and rebates so thats should be a drop in the ocean for them too....
The best thing you have atm Adam is that you have a bit of power over the agreement too so you can set terms and if they really want you they will compromise.....

And more importantly.... GOOD LUCK!!!!

Kool, looks like its time to play ball Hey !!! Thanks Gav.

4.9 EF Futura · 08-06-2007, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

They need me real bad so would it be wrong of me to ask for a car and fuel card and stay on the same wage that im on now ? Use my own car and they pay for fuel but i want a bigger wage to compensate for wear and tear ?

This is the way of the new world. As others have said, approach them openly, honestly and professionally. Lol, consider their options when deciding how hard to push... if there are other people they could hire... you probably dont want to push too hard...

There are a myriad of options available to you. Maybe even negotiate some sort of travel allowance. I am afforded accomodation + $85/day subsistence when travelling... standard public service conditions are $175 cash allowance for food + accom but you can spend it anyway you like (just to give you an idea of what's out there).

At the end of the day, they will have a $$$ amount in their head... cars etc can all be "priced" by the company and they will translate that into an effective wage... its more about you deciding what arrangement is going to suit you best.

Also, on a more personal note - having watched the last couple of your threads, its great to see how things are working out for you. Congrats and good luck.

The Yeti · 08-06-2007, 11:39 AM

I dont know how the money they are offerign you compairs with what you currently earn, but if they are willing to cover accomodation and meals to stay near them a car and fuel will work out less expencive for them if they want you so bad tell ti how it is, dont be unreasonable but this is negotiation time so start negotiating for you

Riksta · 08-06-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EAadam

Short term contract. Maybe 3 mths, could be 6 or could be permanent.

I may be totally wrong here, but to me it sounds like if they've stated short term contract, possibility of permanent, they could be wanting to throw you on a short contract for a period of time, to see how you pan out etc, and to see how good you really are - this way, if you're not "perfect" for the job at end of contract they can let you go quite easily, if you are exactly what they want and need they can transfer you from contract to permanent.

Having only visited Melbourne once, I'm totally unsure as to the distance involved in your travelling, how long (timewise) do you think it would take to get to work each day and stuff? I don't think asking for some sort of fuel subsidy is being too harsh, provided a one-way trip takes longer than an hour or so. If they have cars readily available for staff that aren't all "booked and taken" by other members then I might suggest it, but if I know they'd have to go buy a vehicle I wouldn't even bother.

I'm more of a "play it safe" kind of guy myself, to tell the truth I'd probably grin and bear it for the short term contract period and if they decided to make me permanent, negotiate this kind of thing then.

Anyway, I wish you all the best and hope it works out well for you!

Bossxr8 · 08-06-2007, 10:03 PM

Seems to me they want you to train their workers and then give you the boot once they are competant of doing the work themselves. I'd be wary of that.

Nostalgia · 08-06-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Seems to me they want you to train their workers and then give you the boot once they are competant of doing the work themselves. I'd be wary of that.

My thought exactly. Thats why i want to extract everything i can out of them while im there.

Bill_R · 08-06-2007, 10:58 PM

Glad to hear that you have prospects.
I'd be looking for a car allowance of some sort. If it seemed like a longer-term prospect I'd be asking for a car.

Gobes32 · 09-06-2007, 12:33 AM

I am taking a stab in the dark and presuming toyota want to hire you. In which case, their trainers are on more money than production and so should you. I would ask where you sit in their long term plans and best of luck with the negotiations.