Now it is the Forum Police jumping out and stopping us

David See · 12-11-2006, 06:40 PM

Hi all,

Ok, the title is tongue-in-cheek, but I mean well. I just couldn't resist.

This morning I started a thread in regards to the death of a Police Officer in the line of duty at Somersby. The thread has subsequently been closed, which is unfortunate as I feel I didn't get to reiterate the feelings behind the original thread when I returned to my computer this afternoon.

I started the thread at 5am this morning because I had been to the scene as my job requires and had seen the carnage first hand and had spoken to Police officers about the incident in detail.

I felt I needed to vent as it upset me but also because I knew at some stage this was going to happen and here it all was in front of me. " I knew it" came to mind the second I got the call to go.

I wasn't cop-bashing, I work with these guys every day and know how difficult their jobs are. I was purely stating that it was unfortunate but predictable considering I had, for may years, seen Police doing this very action at this location and thought that if it was me being pulled over, I would have been scared out of my wits seeing a human being jumping out at me as I was doing at least 110km/h, with no more than 100 metres to spare.

It is a mighty dangerous job the HWP officers do, and because of that they do need to improve their odds of being hit.

We are not even sure at this point if the offending driver was the one being stopped. These Police jump out from the right side of the road into three lanes of traffic. And I have seen them go to the middle lane amongst other cars to pull one specific car over.

The practice is too dangerous and this proves it.

Administrators, please let the threads run their course, unless, of course it gets completely out of hand, as there are some of us here that do, in fact have information of some value. Please don't just stop it because there are a few comments you don't agree on.

This is obviously a passionate subject, but it was never started to put crap on the cops. Saving them and the sanity of drivers was more the point as far as I was concerned.

Jeeepers · 12-11-2006, 06:41 PM

I don't imagine this one will get far either....

David See · 12-11-2006, 06:42 PM

I really don't care, it gave me a chance to clarify my intentions.

**Bluehoon** · 12-11-2006, 06:49 PM

As long as this thread can stay on track, it may survive.......

Hear your emotions mate, but this should go to bar????

b2tf · 12-11-2006, 06:54 PM

I don't think anybody was suggesting that the thread starter was at fault. Unfortunately this can happen when so many opinions are aired in the one area, and the way that is done is not always "ideal".

At the end of the day though, admin and all mods have a responsibility to basically keep things in order, and that means making sure things dont get out of hand. Sometimes the only way to do this is to can a thread entirely and in this case this is what happened.

Keepleft · 12-11-2006, 06:57 PM

Suffice to say, and having read the other thread, *change will happen* in relation to these median enforcement events, one way or the other, either through agency process or political intervention.

The chap was a Scottish born officer, on duty with the NSW HWP for eight years, has three children.

Median based enforcement is not carried out overseas for good reason. One of those is why the UN Traffic Conventions prohibit stopping at the edges of motorway shoulders, 'states parties' (COMM) are contracturally bound by that. Much more to all this that'd fill this forum in discussion, including legal position and 'issues'.

This is not, from my position anyhow, a police bashing exersize, far from it.

The sooner we stop bunching-up traffic the better perhaps.

mowog · 12-11-2006, 07:00 PM

It always sad to see someone get killed doing their job the HWP boys in all states do a difficult and at times dangerous job.

The admin and mods on this forum need to apply some balance this at times can be very hard. I feel at times they can be a bit heavy handed in how they moderate at times it seems that moderation is on personal attitutes rather than content.

b2tf · 12-11-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mowog

The admin and mods on this forum need to apply some balance this at times can be very hard. I feel at times they can be a bit heavy handed in how they moderate at times it seems that moderation is on personal attitutes rather than content.

I hope you're not basing your comment on your thread re Minges Territory, because regardless of who owned that car, your comments were out of place. You know as well as everybody else, that comments like what you said in that thread, are not on.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, no challenge there - it is how you express that opinion that matters.

Jeeepers · 12-11-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, it is how you express that opinion that matters.

How very true...

BeStRaFe · 12-11-2006, 07:11 PM

by all rights with modern technology the police have no need to risk their lives like they do on the pacific highway

mobile camera cars that hide in the bushes do an ample job...

i belive its a fact of double dipping...

but i belive that this death will bring reforms...
they keep lowering the speed limit in areas that have no need for them to be lowered and they wonder why people speed.....

mowog · 12-11-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I hope you're not basing your comment on your thread re Minges Territory, because regardless of who owned that car, your comments were out of place. You know as well as everybody else, that comments like what you said in that thread, are not on.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, no challenge there - it is how you express that opinion that matters.

It's a general comment based on a number of past activites, and PM's and e-mails from others who feel the same. This is a great forum and its well controlled but at times that is also one of its downfalls. Read into that what you want.

GCFordChic · 12-11-2006, 07:21 PM

No no no you have it all wrong it is "everyone is entitled to my opinion" :P

:

As for the thread David, we have personally been head to head on here in the past and perhaps people who have read your previous posts regarding revenue raising via speeding fines etc may have thought you were going along the same lines and wrongly interpreted it by thinking you were having a go.
Even if that wasnt the case, it seems that other people made the thread into that, despite your intention to express concern not for revenue raising, but safety and the dangerous normal procedure you have witnessed in the past for pulling over speeding motorist.

I read the thread and i didnt think you were wanting it to go that way, and i dont think that its closure was a reflection of you or your opinion.

It went on a tangent, other issues came into play. Sadly, internet communication is such that you cannot clarify what you wanted to talk about with others until it has already gone bad and (in this case) been closed.

Now, did i make any sense at all?

:

David See · 12-11-2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I hope you're not basing your comment on your thread re Minges Territory, because regardless of who owned that car, your comments were out of place. You know as well as everybody else, that comments like what you said in that thread, are not on.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, no challenge there - it is how you express that opinion that matters.

I apologise, I missed your point. Who was this meant for?

Smoke Pursuit · 12-11-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I hope you're not basing your comment on your thread re Minges Territory, because regardless of who owned that car, your comments were out of place. You know as well as everybody else, that comments like what you said in that thread, are not on.

Everybody is entitled to an opinion, no challenge there - it is how you express that opinion that matters.

While i didnt agree with what mowog said in that particular thread, this isnt high school so get off your high horse. Seems as though your getting a bit of a thrill about being all serious about it. People say **** thats wrong and we all get over it.

As for the other thread ive read it and have to wonder why police officers are allowed to continue putting their lives in danger, and others. Some of the crazy crap i see police officers doing in pursuit of others really worries me. Look at what happened at the goldcoast yesturday!

David See · 12-11-2006, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

No no no you have it all wrong it is "everyone is entitled to my opinion" :P

:

As for the thread David, we have personally been head to head on here in the past and perhaps people who have read your previous posts regarding revenue raising via speeding fines etc may have thought you were going along the same lines and wrongly interpreted it by thinking you were having a go.
Even if that wasnt the case, it seems that other people made the thread into that, despite your intention to express concern not for revenue raising, but safety and the dangerous normal procedure you have witnessed in the past for pulling over speeding motorist.

I read the thread and i didnt think you were wanting it to go that way, and i dont think that its closure was a reflection of you or your opinion.

It went on a tangent, other issues came into play. Sadly, internet communication is such that you cannot clarify what you wanted to talk about with others until it has already gone bad and (in this case) been closed.

Now, did i make any sense at all?

:

Perhaps I should have read the other posts more carefully.

I just feel for the family of the officer. I remember him and he was a lovely guy. Such a shame.

mowog · 12-11-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David See

I apologise, I missed your point. Who was this meant for?

it was directed at me David.

Bill_R · 12-11-2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

... Look at what happened at the goldcoast yesturday!

what happened on the GC yesterday?

GCFordChic · 12-11-2006, 08:02 PM

Everybody....deep breath, count to ten!!
Then we will have a group hug and discuss this with rationality and without name calling.

**Bluehoon** · 12-11-2006, 08:02 PM

this thread is going to go by the way of the dodo.
Record isn't it? 2 threads in 24 hours on 1 topic?

sad reflection...........................

b2tf · 12-11-2006, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

this thread is going to go by the way of the dodo.
Record isn't it? 2 threads in 24 hours on 1 topic?

sad reflection...........................

nah, VE beats it hands down!

:

**Professor Farnsworth** · 12-11-2006, 08:08 PM

lsterritory you have a tendency to be a little arrogant.. steady it on mate

mowog · 12-11-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

expect it to disappear and your account might disappear too.

Is that better? Make sense for you?

This is one of the problems disagree with someone who has some control and this kind of thing is wheeled out.

If people want to play the high moral ground it starts at the top.

Laminge · 12-11-2006, 08:17 PM

David

The thread was not closed because of your initial post, it was closed because of some of the discussion that followed.

I also appreciate the passion you have expressed your concern that it may have been.

I have no problems with this thread either, however if a threads runs off track because of these post we have 2 options, close it or remove the posts.

Depending how quickly the moderators or admins step into the thread will result on what action is taken.

One thing I will make very clear though it is the admins and moderators that will steer the course of discussion based on our internal guidelines and determine if the thread is acceptable both to subject and content from members posting in same.

Since day one we have not tolerated police bashing on the forums, and I have no hesitation is saying that several discussions have been closed and removed because of this, this will continue.

I also pity the fewls who think that the can post what they want and then come back later and claim that it was just in jest, they are not welcome on these forums and can go to one of the many others that are in operation - if they want a helping hand I will remove their access here.

I think most of you whom claim the right to be derogatory, insulting and basically superficial miss the point that your right to access these forums stop once you overstep these boundaries.

I look forward to informative discussions, not the dribble that I have read of late.

Take LSTerritoryGhia post with regards to B2TF, that certainly is not acceptable, if he has an issue with the comments and cannot be civil enough to effectively discuss it apart from telling him to get of his high horse, then I must say its a perfect example of my comments above.

Mowog may think it amusing to change his signature after he saw fit to say what he did in the thread that was removed in the territory forums, that's fine, it just proves my point.

People may decide to leave the forums at some stage, so be it, I have no hesitation or second thought though removing the trash from the forums, whether that be someone with 1 post or 5000.

Edit and in the time it has taken me to draft this reply I am ashamed to note some of the replies preceding it.

new2ford · 12-11-2006, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GCFordChic

Now, did i make any sense at all?

:

Nope sorry!

Was completely surprised to see the thread closed. It stayed on track and dealt with some key issues which Keepleft in particular brought into focus - the wisdom of placing human beings on roadways with cars hurtling along it in 3 lanes at 110 kph and the wisdom of pulling cars off the road to the right in the fast lane when all safety logic dictates that (in RH drive countries) you pull over to the left. These were well aired and discussed and after some initial foolish comments that were taken off, the mood of the thread was I think of sympathy for the police doing such a difficult job in a poorly thought-out working environment. And in an environment where political directions about road safety are up the duff as described in other threads.

Incidentally I agree with speed policing on this part of the F3 and even lower limits in some sections but this should be done safely via fixed cameras and patrol cars that are able to pull a motorist over in a safe manner.

As for not knowing the exact circumstances of an accident, David obviously did and many of the rest of us know the circumstances of the road and 'typical' such situations that arise. My own observations are made on the basis of 35 years accident-free driving in three continents - all over Australia, Europe and west coast US. I'm sure many others on this forum are also not in the ignorant 'throw-away remark' category either.

Not an easy job being a mod I'm sure but sometimes mods too might need to take a step back and refrain from making some comments that reflect on the sincerity of some forum members. Now if we weren't all separated by this internet thing, at this point we should all go and have a drink together!

:

Late edit: just heard on the news that the Police Association now wants halt on such highway stake outs so I suspect they are thinking along the same lines as has been discussed on this forum. Laminge where the hell's the Police bashing (apart from removed posts)? I'm still looking for it.

XRQTR · 12-11-2006, 08:23 PM

High horses, saw horses, shetland ponies...... what does this have to do with the topic?? NOTHING

Might want to take your personal shyte elsewhere, and this means all of you, this is a rather serious thread, show some respect for the officer if not for each other.

Ironic that, coming from someone who has copped so much flack for it in the past, don't you think

Smoke Pursuit · 12-11-2006, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laminge

David

The thread was not closed because of your initial post, it was closed because of some of the discussion that followed.

I also appreciate the passion you have expressed your concern that it may have been.

I have no problems with this thread either, however if a threads runs off track because of these post we have 2 options, close it or remove the posts.

Depending how quickly the moderators or admins step into the thread will result on what action is taken.

One thing I will make very clear though it is the admins and moderators that will steer the course of discussion based on our internal guidelines and determine if the thread is acceptable both to subject and content from members posting in same.

Since day one we have not tolerated police bashing on the forums, and I have no hesitation is saying that several discussions have been closed and removed because of this, this will continue.

I also pity the fewls who think that the can post what they want and then come back later and claim that it was just in jest, they are not welcome on these forums and can go to one of the many others that are in operation - if they want a helping hand I will remove their access here.

I think most of you whom claim the right to be derogatory, insulting and basically superficial miss the point that your right to access these forums stop once you overstep these boundaries.

I look forward to informative discussions, not the dribble that I have read of late.

Take LSTerritoryGhia post with regards to B2TF, that certainly is not acceptable, if he has an issue with the comments and cannot be civil enough to effectively discuss it apart from telling him to get of his high horse, then I must say its a perfect example of my comments above.

Mowog may think it amusing to change his signature after he saw fit to say what he did in the thread that was removed in the territory forums, that's fine, it just proves my point.

People may decide to leave the forums at some stage, so be it, I have no hesitation or second thought though removing the trash from the forums, whether that be someone with 1 post or 5000.

Edit and in the time it has taken me to draft this reply I am ashamed to note some of the replies preceding it.

If thats how you see my point then fair enough, but at the end of the day I am more upset about the domineering tant some people take on here, with threats and alike as per B2TF second reply to me about deletion of accounts and so to speak. I do not partake in putting **** on peoples cars or going on personal attack sprees usually, but i certainly dont agree with what hes saying.

I enjoy being a part of this forum but dont believe people should carry on like that and treat others as they are lower society. I already said i didnt agree with what Mowog did, and dont agree with others putting **** so to speak on other peoples pride and joy. But I do get upset when some here think they should treat others as if they are dogs, just as B2TF has in talking down to Mowog, then myself as if im some criminal thats just broken the law.

GCFordChic · 12-11-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Nope sorry!

Ah well i tried.

:

I thought there were things that popped up which perhaps got too heated and some sly remarks about police were made.

But now Laminge has said what needed to be said i can shut up with what i thought went on.

Laminge · 12-11-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

If thats how you see my point then fair enough, but at the end of the day I am more upset about the domineering tant some people take on here, with threats and alike as per B2TF second reply to me about deletion of accounts and so to speak. I do not partake in putting **** on peoples cars or going on personal attack sprees usually, but i certainly dont agree with what hes saying.

I enjoy being a part of this forum but dont believe people should carry on like that and treat others as they are lower society. I already said i didnt agree with what Mowog did, and dont agree with others putting **** so to speak on other peoples pride and joy. But I do get upset when some here think they should treat others as if they are dogs, just as B2TF has in talking down to Mowog, then myself.

I don't believe any purpose is served to continue the debate, I believe you have the right to express your concerns to the admins and discuss the treatment you perceive as unacceptable with them, if not with me then there are others available http://www.fordforums.com.au/announc...nouncementid=2

SNB05T · 12-11-2006, 08:34 PM

i only heard bout this when i got home from bathurst last nite, what happened with the hwpo? was he doing an rbt or pulling someone over? i always hate seeing someone get pulled over on f3 cause you don't know where their going to be standing.
im probably going to get burnt here but the cops do a bloody good job trying to keep us safe on the road. take care guys and girls, we need you

XA-Coupe · 12-11-2006, 08:38 PM

Interesting read.. not.
That thread, from it's inception and because of it's manner, had only one way to go... and hardly suprisingly it went that way.
That thread wasn't a balanced discussion, it was just another avenue for many people to tell their little stories about what the police did that annoyed them.
I have read the thread, and re read it and still can see it had no value at all.

As more details come out, it seems the office didn't jump and and get struck down by the speeding car but was struck by a vehicle that was struck by another .... Unless you witnessed it, there is no way of knowing what the truth is and really, anyone with half a brain would have at least held their tongue until more information was released. I still don't believe the 'updates' that we are being given.

If David ( and anyone else ) doesn't like the way we moderate this forum, he is entitled to his opinion. He is free to come and go as he wishes. Putting up posts like this serves no other purpose than to create ****.. even if it is supposedly in 'jest'... which I highly doubt.
I didn't receieve a PM about it and I would expect no other mod or admin did either.

Again, displeased but not surprised.