351 Cleveland or 350 Chev?

Ford_Crazy · 31-08-2006, 07:49 PM

Guys,

I have had many arguments regarding what is the better motor (mind you I know nothing about engines) I defend the 351 because it is a ford engine, but I would like to know facts.

Why do a lot of old Ford vehicles have 350 chevy power plants? Why do a lot of Ford drag cars (in the states especially) use 350 chev engines?

Is it a more potent motor? Is it more reliable? Is there a difference between them?

So all in all what is the better motor, a 351 clevo or a 350 Chev and why?

:

mcflux · 31-08-2006, 08:40 PM

350 Chev is world's most popular engine. As a result it has a massive (and cheap) aftermarket compared to less-numerous builds. There was a recent SM article about an XY with a 350 in it, and the reason the driver built it with a 350 was due to cost, as well as being different.

The 302 Windsor comes in 2nd in the popularity stakes.

I'm not a fan of putting different-make engines in different cars. Not that I'd want to shoot someone for doing such a thing, but it's just something I wouldn't do myself. Horses for courses.

EDIT btw I think you'll find most people here would opt for the 351 as the better donk, due to the skewed nature of this forum (naturally!)

Mark s · 31-08-2006, 08:53 PM

Your correct with the Chev having so many aftermarket parts and a huge amount of development work done over the years. The Clevo only had a short life span in the USA. The Mustang only had them from late 69 to 73.

You will find the Clevo is making a big comeback in the US with many rodders opting to put a Clevo in place of a Chev engine. The seppo's are going crazy over CHI heads, Parker funnel web manifolds, etc. There is also a demand for the so called "Aussie" closed chamber heads.

I cant remember the website and I will have to ask but a rodder friend, who is also a Ford fan showed me a photo and story on a early 60's Corvette back in the early 70's that ran a Clevo, C6, 9" setup for the strip in Canada. It was a constant class winner and p!ssed more than a few die hard Chev/Corvette fans off.

Ben and Joe Gatts black Gonza XA was the quickest small block in the world at one stage. Not bad for a 378ci Blown Clevo. They used to run against Bray, etc.

Just look at those monster ports on the 4V heads and how much air they can flow. The clevo is capable of some big HP.

4Vman · 31-08-2006, 09:02 PM

The 4V cleveland: The most powerful factory manufactured carbureted small block V8 in the world!

MRJUCY · 31-08-2006, 10:21 PM

Clevo is my pick, yes their is more available for the Chev but hey you only need 1 set of everything & either can make more power then you'll ever need.

buickman · 31-08-2006, 10:39 PM

[

Quote:

QUOTE=Ghia5L]350 Chev is world's most popular engine. As a result it has a massive (and cheap) aftermarket compared to less-numerous builds.
The 302 Windsor comes in 2nd in the popularity stakes.

I agree with that.

Quote:

DIT btw I thinkE you'll find most people here would opt for the 351 as the better donk, due to the skewed nature of this forum (naturally!)

[/QUOTE]

I would have that agree there as well as this is a Ford forum

chevypower · 31-08-2006, 11:20 PM

pros and cons to both, the 351 was great for low end torque, made a great engine for the F series trucks, and an all round good cruising motor
the 350 GM small block was a lot more efficient, naturally revved harder, and still had enough torque. I preffered the GM motor, cos it was more common, parts were cheaper, and the efficiency of the motor with its power. Both motors belong in the past, but were good in their day

BJ · 31-08-2006, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

Both motors belong in the past, but were good in their day

How do you figuer that one.

tufLTD · 31-08-2006, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BJ

How do you figure that one.

Spot on BJ. Plenty of 'old' Clevo's making over 600hp N/A. Prefer them to the modern Windsors & Chev's.

gs1973 · 31-08-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chevypower

pros and cons to both, the 351 was great for low end torque, made a great engine for the F series trucks, and an all round good cruising motor
the 350 GM small block was a lot more efficient, naturally revved harder, and still had enough torque. I preffered the GM motor, cos it was more common, parts were cheaper, and the efficiency of the motor with its power. Both motors belong in the past, but were good in their day

In your opinion mate! 351 cleveland's would leave siamesed port's on chebby's for dead...Revved harder? Another urban myth! :MrT_anim:

protd · 01-09-2006, 06:38 AM

imo you cant compare a clevo to a chev the cleveland is a far better designed engine.. because they went into trucks people say they cant rev blah blah blah.. open up a chev open up a cleveland the cleveland engine ****s all over the chev, the chev is only popular and has so many parts available out there cause the yanks stuck them in just about every car that rolled off there production line. if your going to compare a chev to a ford engine it should be the windsor.. people dont like clevos cause there expensive to build, oh and clevos cant rev i know of plenty turning 8000rpm plus and have seen plenty of stock bottom end clevos turn 7500rpm, ever think the cam they installed in them back then was only designed to go 4700.. look at the gt's they turned 7000+ from factory

4Vman · 01-09-2006, 07:48 AM

Take the sump of both a chev and clevo and flip them over, the chev mains and crank look flimsy in comparrison, the cleveland bottom end is virtually bullet proof compared to the chev, granted there are ways to solve the chev's issues with stronger 4 bolt blocks and steel cranks the clevo is very stout.
Now look at the heads, this is where the power is made, siamese ports are a huge compromise for porting and heat disapation and distortion, in comparrison the canted valve wedge arangement of the closed chamber 4V head makes massive power and breaths extrememly well.
The chev was a venerable motor and works v well with aftermarket stuff, but the cleveland offers allot more scope from the factory.

GreenMachine · 01-09-2006, 08:37 AM

You've all missed the point, I'm afraid. The 351 Cleveland is obviously better than a 350 Chevrolet engine - It's one cubic inch bigger!!! Powah!!

Realistically, there's nothing in it. The Clevo bottom end is a bit sturdier from factory, but the aftermarket support for the mouse motor is worlds ahead.

xbgs351 · 01-09-2006, 08:51 AM

From the factory I would say the 351C.

For a streetbuild using mainly OEM gear I would say the 351C.

For a race engine using aftermarket gear I would say the SBC.

XA-Coupe · 01-09-2006, 09:03 AM

Probably the biggest thing in favour of the chev is it's capacity for physical size. It's a much smaller motor with the same ( ish ) capacity.
I firmly believe that the Cleveland is at least the chev's equal give the amount of development the chev has had compared to the cleveland.
As for belonging in the past .... pffft, both are completely relevant.

**Chris** · 01-09-2006, 09:21 AM

The Chev has been playing catch up for years, especially in the cylinder head area.

23 degree couldn't cut it, so they went to 18 degree, then to 12 degree, and now a canted type head.

Modern chev smallblocks, such as the Holden motorsort deal borrow heavily from Cleveland cylinder head teachings. Its basically a ford engine.

My father ran mid-high 11's in a street driven XY GT in the mid 80's, engine was totally stock apart from his own prepped 4v's and a flat tappet camand converter from the US.

Even the hot rods with their light weight and big tyres couldn't keep up

:

56L · 01-09-2006, 09:23 AM

It has always been stated in the US that no other v8 engine can match the cleveland for horsepower per cubic inch
As its been said already the US had them only for a few years so the aftermarket part supply over there never really took off until now and australia is leading the push
One of the worlds best engine builders chose the cleveland to easily win the engine masters comp against countless chevy,s , so if those chi heads that he used were around many moons ago i bet u the cleavo,s would have made upset a few chevies , the cleavo had never had much opportunity until recently
And lastly werent the cleavo engines banned from many speedway and motorsport events in the us including nascar

p.s if now someone would make a cleavo aktermarket block because that was also a major contributing factor that held these engines back ,i would love to see these engines in our local speedway scene

:

xafalcongs · 01-09-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Crazy

Why do a lot of old Ford vehicles have 350 chevy power plants? Why do a lot of Ford drag cars (in the states especially) use 350 chev engines?:

As for old Fords having 350's, I assume you mean old 1929-35 Ford 3 window and 5 window Coupes, Hi-Boys, and Lo-Boys--basically streetrods. From the 1970's through the early 1990's that was the cheapest to build motor for guys trying to build a streetrod. Now up here in the States, old motors are the rage: flatheads, old Caddys, old Lincoln MEL motors, Ford Y-blots, etc.,.... SBC's are way out of vogue. Now your comment on Ford drag cars with Chev motors, I don't know what you're talking about there. EFI Windsors are the hot ticket up here if you run a Ford. In fact, you can build a EFI 5.0 Windsor for less than a EFI SBC. I can't even remember the last time I saw a Chev powered Ford drag car.

xe351 · 01-09-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Crazy

Guys,

I have had many arguments regarding what is the better motor (mind you I know nothing about engines) I defend the 351 because it is a ford engine, but I would like to know facts.

Why do a lot of old Ford vehicles have 350 chevy power plants? Why do a lot of Ford drag cars (in the states especially) use 350 chev engines?

Is it a more potent motor? Is it more reliable? Is there a difference between them?

So all in all what is the better motor, a 351 clevo or a 350 Chev and why?

:

some good questions, heres my thoughts...

- i think that alot of old fords (rods) uses chev engines purely for their physical size, easier to get into tight engine bays - they are narrower than a clevo.

- the 350 chev has been produced for ages where as the Clevo was only a short run production in the states (is that right?) which means there is a stack more performance options for chev owners, as well as spares.

- better engine? depends who you talk to, many will say 350 chev, but the clevo is my choice.

Jock260 · 01-09-2006, 04:44 PM

All hail the 350

Ford_Crazy · 02-09-2006, 12:37 AM

Guys,

Thanks for your answers, atleast now I have some arsenal in my armory!! I didn't realise that the performance aftermarket for the 350 were so abundant, seems like a good reason for blokes on a budget to use a 350 rather than a 351.

I also didn't know the clevo wasn't in production for long? (Thought theyw ere int hje states for ages).

Thanks fellas.

4Vman · 02-09-2006, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Crazy

Guys,

Thanks for your answers, atleast now I have some arsenal in my armory!! I didn't realise that the performance aftermarket for the 350 were so abundant, seems like a good reason for blokes on a budget to use a 350 rather than a 351.

I also didn't know the clevo wasn't in production for long? (Thought theyw ere int hje states for ages).

Thanks fellas.

Are you serious? why would you need to make a choice? what is the application?

Ford_Crazy · 02-09-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Are you serious? why would you need to make a choice? what is the application?

Serious about what? I am just saying that when you get into car conversation and people bring up 350's or 351's I can actually comment and sort of know what I am talking about.

What do you mean by application?

4Vman · 02-09-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Crazy

Serious about what? I am just saying that when you get into car conversation and people bring up 350's or 351's I can actually comment and sort of know what I am talking about.

What do you mean by application?

: car conversion? if its a Ford use a Ford motor, it isnt rocket science...

Ford_Crazy · 02-09-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

: car conversion? if its a Ford use a Ford motor, it isnt rocket science...

Read what I wrote again dude.

:

4Vman · 02-09-2006, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Crazy

Read what I wrote again dude.

:

I didnt agree with that statement to begin with, hotrods yes, but trucks and drag vehicles? very rarely..

[Tonko] · 02-09-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ford_Crazy

(Thought theyw ere int hje states for ages).

and what is that supposed to say?

Ford_Crazy · 02-09-2006, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonko351

and what is that supposed to say?

also didn't know the clevo wasn't in production for long? (Thought they were in the states for ages).

Sorry!

MoreHPformyXR6 · 02-09-2006, 09:49 PM

I would go 350 Chev so much after market stuff available & stuff all dollars in comparison to 351. Plus use to have 327 chev in my HJ Prem it that was a fun drive.

nugget378 · 02-09-2006, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoreHPformyXR6

I would go 350 Chev so much after market stuff available & stuff all dollars im comparison to 351. Plus use to have 327 chev in my HJ Prem it that was a fun rive.

Not true, total crapola,my mate built his chev at the same time I built mine,in the same shop,very similar specs,377-383,alloy heads,roller cams, the chev was not one bit cheaper.
And it dosent make as much HP....:thebirds: