chasing 14's

The Mighty Red · 04-02-2008, 09:23 PM

Ok, I have a series 1 XR6hp auto, pacemakers Metalcat, straight thru performance muffler and 2.5 redback zorst and a CAI........I took it to willowbank about 6 months ago and run a 15.56@92mph.......I want to get into the 14s but I dont want to change the diff gearing or put a hi stall in at this stage ....the car does 80kms a day 5 days a week in a 110kmh zone so I want to leave the gearing as is atm....
I have heard so many stories of guys having issues after putting aftermarket camshafts in that I would like to leave the xr6 cam in for the moment ....

If I buy a flash tuner and bigger injectors have it custom tuned can I expect to a 14? or am i barking up the wrong tree

StealthAu · 04-02-2008, 10:23 PM

No, bigger injectors will do stuff all on a standard head. Get a JMM or similar head and cam package and a flash tune.

EvilChief · 04-02-2008, 10:25 PM

cam, porting, diff, shiftkit and you got ur 14s

blackers10 · 04-02-2008, 11:48 PM

Monty pulled a 14 somthing? with a 3" exhaust pacemakers and cat and a generic flash tune and 3" intake piping and a pod filter in box

with cam and porting you will be FLYING

with a LSD and a 2800 stall it would charge off the line no worries

LG · 04-02-2008, 11:58 PM

Get the Tuner. It will liven the car up, and improve the automatic gearing.

That should drop you to the low 15s.

The Monty · 05-02-2008, 03:13 AM

Its an XR6, with a flash tuner, you should be pulling 14's no probs, Im doing it with a standard drivelined Fairmont (no LSD, no Diff gears, and no stall).
I have run 14.97, 14.98, 14.99 and 15.02, 3 inch exhaust, pacie comps, 3 inch intake, K&N xStream pod in the factory box, with the front cut out, tickford intake, and a generic flash tune from KPM motorsport. I went from 15.8's to 14.9's for under 2 grand. And still get 700 k's to a tank.

sikford · 05-02-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Its an XR6, with a flash tuner, you should be pulling 14's no probs, Im doing it with a standard drivelined Fairmont (no LSD, no Diff gears, and no stall).
I have run 14.97, 14.98, 14.99 and 15.02, 3 inch exhaust, pacie comps, 3 inch intake, K&N xStream pod in the factory box, with the front cut out, tickford intake, and a generic flash tune from KPM motorsport. I went from 15.8's to 14.9's for under 2 grand. And still get 700 k's to a tank.

that really good, definatly something for me to look in to.no LSD ay.not bad, how do u find the take offs at the drags, im gettin a bit of wheelspin and i have 3:45's.

sfr rob · 05-02-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mighty Red

Ok, I have a series 1 XR6hp auto, pacemakers Metalcat, straight thru performance muffler and 2.5 redback zorst and a CAI........I took it to willowbank about 6 months ago and run a 15.56@92mph.......I want to get into the 14s but I dont want to change the diff gearing or put a hi stall in at this stage ....the car does 80kms a day 5 days a week in a 110kmh zone so I want to leave the gearing as is atm....
I have heard so many stories of guys having issues after putting aftermarket camshafts in that I would like to leave the xr6 cam in for the moment ....

If I buy a flash tuner and bigger injectors have it custom tuned can I expect to a 14? or am i barking up the wrong tree

Hang on, after the exhaust and intake mods, the Au still only got 15.5 on the 1/4 mile?! surely thats not right.... what would one do stock?
I thought Stiddy who has a standard AU 1 managed a 14 flat stock?

The Mighty Red · 05-02-2008, 09:41 AM

I'm pretty sure a stock xr6hp auto runs low 16's so with my exhaust a 15.5 with exhaust mods I think is about right.......

I will deffinitely be getting the flash turner first up I just thought bigger injectors might help stuff abit more fuel in the chambers and the flash tune would adjust the timing or whatever needed to give a bit more power...

maybe I should the flash tuner and then save for a new cam or something and get it installed at the same time as the flasher, $600 for a custom tune seems a bit of a waste on a stock engine .

TheSneakiness · 05-02-2008, 09:58 AM

When you stall it up and take off, does it feel like its "hanging" in the rev range?

The Mighty Red · 05-02-2008, 10:07 AM

when I stall it up and take off it takes a sec or so to fully get up and going , I dont think its on cam when I stall it up and take off hard

The Monty · 05-02-2008, 01:17 PM

I get wheelspin unless I let pressure out of the tyres. I run around 25-28, with 235 45/17's. No burnout either, just a dummy launch to make sure no crap is on the tyres.
Stiddy ran 14.9's I think with intake and 3 inch exhuast.
Youd be about right running 15.5's, its all in the first 60'ft.

TheSneakiness · 05-02-2008, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mighty Red

when I stall it up and take off it takes a sec or so to fully get up and going , I dont think its on cam when I stall it up and take off hard

My AU and my BA did the same thing. You sit on the line at around 1500-2000rpm and take off, it feels like it ain't going nowhere.

I dropped .4 off my PB in the BA just by changing how I launched the car.

sikford · 05-02-2008, 03:29 PM

what should i be running with my current mods then , i have a 2.5" zorst, 3" intake and 3:45's. i've managed a 15.72 but thats all.is this good?

**Stav** · 05-02-2008, 06:49 PM

Yes it is a good time.15.5 TO 15.7 s a good time for a stock engined car.The xr6 cam is a good cam.I estimate you are pulling 125 rwkws at the moment. The best modificaton suited to your needs is an edit tune by a good workshop. A good tune should and will knock off .5 of a second. I have seen this happen many times over and over. You may just get in or miss out of a 14.

MADED-6 · 05-02-2008, 07:15 PM

dam au's 6's must be more tunible than e-series i done cam headwork and heaps to my ed and only got 147rwkw but a chip or engine management wouldve gone down well probly.
good luck and keep us posted man.
cheers josh.

FS5 · 05-02-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfr rob

Hang on, after the exhaust and intake mods, the Au still only got 15.5 on the 1/4 mile?! surely thats not right.... what would one do stock?
I thought Stiddy who has a standard AU 1 managed a 14 flat stock?

thats about right,i get out to willowbank quite a bit and the best i've seen is 15.5 from a series 1 hp with paceys 2 1/2 cat and 2.5 zorst thats auto.thats int the cooler weather too.

mighty red i'd seriously consider a stally ,i know you don't want one but pm the guys on here that have one and have a yarn.

the diff gear theory of using to much fuel is crap.i just went for a run down the coast and back today first good fwy run in a while.when i filled up when i got back dte showed 897 km's .given my speedo is out about 10% from the 3.9 diff gears i run ,thats still around 810 to a tank on the fwy.
so you know what would be next on the list if i was you.

sikford · 06-02-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Yes it is a good time.15.5 TO 15.7 s a good time for a stock engined car.The xr6 cam is a good cam.I estimate you are pulling 125 rwkws at the moment. The best modificaton suited to your needs is an edit tune by a good workshop. A good tune should and will knock off .5 of a second. I have seen this happen many times over and over. You may just get in or miss out of a 14.

Definatly keen on having and edit done, whats best, ive heard that rather than a flash tune its better to upgrade the computer but im unsure on how true this is.i just wanna run a 14.lol, i'd be absolutely stoked if i could run one b4 i supercharge the thing.

**Mechan1k** · 06-02-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS5

the diff gear theory of using to much fuel is crap.i just went for a run down the coast and back today first good fwy run in a while.when i filled up when i got back dte showed 897 km's .given my speedo is out about 10% from the 3.9 diff gears i run ,thats still around 810 to a tank on the fwy.
so you know what would be next on the list if i was you.

This is good to know ... I want to change out my 3.23's in the ute and go for 3.7's ... if you are still getting decent economy ... I am tempted to do it ... just for better drivability under load and in traffic. And to suit my car more as well.

sikford · 06-02-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FS5

thats about right,i get out to willowbank quite a bit and the best i've seen is 15.5 from a series 1 hp with paceys 2 1/2 cat and 2.5 zorst thats auto.thats int the cooler weather too.

mighty red i'd seriously consider a stally ,i know you don't want one but pm the guys on here that have one and have a yarn.

the diff gear theory of using to much fuel is crap.i just went for a run down the coast and back today first good fwy run in a while.when i filled up when i got back dte showed 897 km's .given my speedo is out about 10% from the 3.9 diff gears i run ,thats still around 810 to a tank on the fwy.
so you know what would be next on the list if i was you.

just a quick question, was the 14.9 run with all the mods that are listed?cheers

The Mighty Red · 06-02-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

Yes it is a good time.15.5 TO 15.7 s a good time for a stock engined car.The xr6 cam is a good cam.I estimate you are pulling 125 rwkws at the moment. The best modificaton suited to your needs is an edit tune by a good workshop. A good tune should and will knock off .5 of a second. I have seen this happen many times over and over. You may just get in or miss out of a 14.

What cam are you running to get your 14.5?...Red Diamond Converters here in queensland just quoted me $312 for a 2600hi stall.....

**Stav** · 06-02-2008, 04:59 PM

I have the 4:11 diff gears and get awesome economy on the freeway.I have met alot of know it all experts who have told me that my JMM race series extractors were crap ,4:11's are over gearing,car wont idle with big cam,youll kill economy with a hi stall,that I cant tune my own car because its rocket science but its all malarchy.Those guys need a slap to wake up that they are no better than any other bloke who actully had the guts to take risk and try it for themselves.

I ran 14.7 in a stock engined car with a dev 4 cam only and standard springs ..with edit too. 14.5 with a a big lumpy *** mutha cam and head work. The dev 4 cam from Jim Mock is a great unit when you compare the extra effort for .2 of a second. I reckon it would have matched this time with the headwork added but now it rests in an au getting a turbo..:( Gee I loved that cam :sm_headba

The Mighty Red · 06-02-2008, 05:08 PM

yeah ,I'm asking for advice from people who have done mods , there are way to many keyboard experts around the place.

Thats an excellent time for DEV 4 cam and edit only ,they do have plenty of E series cars with there cams in them pulling good numbers too....Interesting about the diff gearing I thought with 4.11 at 100kmh it would be revving its head off....

Did the Dev 4 cam behave ok with the edit , i have heard stories of tuning issues with aftermarket cams , does the edit tune the cam in ok?

**Stav** · 06-02-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mighty Red

yeah ,I'm asking for advice from people who have done mods , there are way to many keyboard experts around the place.

Thats an excellent time for DEV 4 cam and edit only ,they do have plenty of E series cars with there cams in them pulling good numbers too....Interesting about the diff gearing I thought with 4.11 at 100kmh it would be revving its head off....

Did the Dev 4 cam behave ok with the edit , i have heard stories of tuning issues with aftermarket cams , does the edit tune the cam in ok?

The dev cam is stated to idle well in a stock engine.It idled well until the battery was reset.The idle went to buggery. Stalling occassionally and poor vaccum. I attribute this issue to the fact that the ecu learns about the engine wear over time.When a bigger cam is installed without a battery reset it will idle becasue of this. The reset causes havoc.The edit will eliminate the problems provided the tuner has half a brain. Sometimes experience teaches better than theory.
At 110 I am not pulling massive rpm.It is a little more busy but economy is good.
I have a saying that may help little..power without control is wasted.Just because a car can have big power doesnt mean he uses it properly.I dynoed at 141 rwkws one week after my 14.5 run??? My mate with 144 rwkws only on the same dyno ran a pb of 15.6 1/4 mile?

sikford · 06-02-2008, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stav

I have the 4:11 diff gears and get awesome economy on the freeway.I have met alot of know it all experts who have told me that my JMM race series extractors were crap ,4:11's are over gearing,car wont idle with big cam,youll kill economy with a hi stall,that I cant tune my own car because its rocket science but its all malarchy.Those guys need a slap to wake up that they are no better than any other bloke who actully had the guts to take risk and try it for themselves.

I ran 14.7 in a stock engined car with a dev 4 cam only and standard springs ..with edit too. 14.5 with a a big lumpy *** mutha cam and head work. The dev 4 cam from Jim Mock is a great unit when you compare the extra effort for .2 of a second. I reckon it would have matched this time with the headwork added but now it rests in an au getting a turbo..:( Gee I loved that cam :sm_headba

you say you ran the 14.7 with a cam and edit but was it also done with al the exhaust, extractors and intake and what not?i get bad enough economy as it is so i dont worry about it anymore, just wanna get it goin quick, i was thinkin 3.9's and a stally but depends on what ppl's experiences are with them, the car is fairly heavy.IRS and the heavy duty tow bar n what not.lol.any recommendations for someone to do a good edit and tune with some extractors in melbourne somewhere?

sly · 06-02-2008, 06:20 PM

Going to a 3.73 diff from 3.45 is an 8.1% change, ie 8.1% increase in revs at a given speed (eg from 2000 rpm to 2162rpm). Similarly a 3.9 diff is a 13.0% change (2000 to 2260) and 4.11 is a 19.1% change (2000 to 2382). Those percentages apply to torque multiplication as well, a 3.9 diff is like an extra 13% power from idle to redline. Have a think about whether you can live with any of those steps. Revs is only part of the fuel consumption equation too, engine load is a big factor as well. You won't use 13% more fuel with a 13% shorter diff as engine load will be less, so less fuel used per RPM.

I use a Datsun 1200 ute occasionally, it has a 1:1 top gear, 12" wheels and 4.825 or so diff. At 110 it's screaming its t1t5 off at the best part of 4000rpm, and gets 42mpg (under 7l/100km) driven like that all day.

sikford · 06-02-2008, 06:37 PM

so what are the options i have apart from flash tune to crack a 14, i dont want siff gears or stall just yet, maybe after i do everything else.

JoesAu · 06-02-2008, 06:42 PM

JMM cam, dialled right.

sikford · 06-02-2008, 06:55 PM

they do a cam for VCT?

blackers10 · 06-02-2008, 07:01 PM

i have a 2400rpm red diamond stall that is currently attached to a worked EB gearbox that needs a little work ... i was quoted around $600 to repair the box

it had a shiftkit in it and was rebuilt 10k km ago etc but appears a solinoid or piston has malfunctioned making it run wierd (no engine braking..and it starrted shuddering etc)

im after around $500 for the box and stall