Ineos Grenadier - interesting marketing concept

[Sprintey]

It seems that EVs are coming and the rise is inexorable. Stuff like simple DIY and mechanical is on the way out.

Or is it?

Ineos is about to launch their new Defender-y hard core offroad 4x4 and they've gone for

a) easy serviceability
b) tough, reliable, simple construction
c) inline 6 petrol and diesel motors to start with
d) a retail presence aimed at regional areas

I'm glad Sir Jim Ratcliffe got mad in that pub.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...starting-price

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-rev...ype-ride-along

[Franco Cozzo]

Looks mint, I'm suspect on the choice of engines though - why BMW? Mind you the Toyota 4.5L 1VD-FTV is a turd anyway.

I wonder if they're going to do a ute version, could give the 79 series a run for its money.

They should bring the Agrale Marrua AM200/AM300 here too

https://www.agrale.com.br/en/off-roa...itary-vehicles

https://www.carsales.com.au/editoria...tralia-118569/

https://www.safescape.com/bortana-ev/

[Sprintey]

I've heard good reports on JLR's new inline 6 diesel (not the 4cyl that busts) so they could use that, but JLR did sue them so probably not.

Fuel quality remote in the BMW diesel might be an issue? Wonder if there's a DIY option where you can pee into the adblue tank* if caught out in the bush

*don't do this

(maybe the petrol is the smart pick??)


The Agrale, hell yes, invade the next farm!

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Wonder if there's a DIY option where you can pee into the adblue tank* if caught out in the bush

I've heard of truck drivers saving all their pee to ad to the tank.

[Citroënbender]

AdYellow?

[Bossxr8]

Makes sense for an off road vehicle, cause I don't see anyone plugging in to charge an EV in the middle of nowhere. Unless they run a diesel generator or something, or wait a week for solar panels to trickle charge it.

[Sprintey]

Think those big mine trucks have electric motors on each wheel, with a big diesel powering them - correct me if wrong, any mine mechanics.

Been watching a lot of 4x4 vids lately and I reckon the Grenadier's premise is the correct and best path. Way back when work trained me for 4x4 and remote, the instructor was very old school, live axles, keep your wheels on the ground, diesel manual, low, low reduction gears, deploy your low/lock before you need it, adjust the tyres in anticipation etc, as simple as possible mechanicals, kind of thing. Even stuff like digging in spare tyres and using as winch points (!) and using your own rear rim as a winch (!!).

I've been watching a lot of stuff with the traction control and IFS 4x4s (eg any modern dual cab, things like L322s) and while the climbing ability is brilliant, there's so much time with one wheel stuck up in the air and often slamming back down. Seeing an old live-axle car go with all wheels on the ground, great chassis twist, large articulation is very satisfying. And we've done a bit ourselves in the Disco 1, which has been heaps of fun.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Think those big mine trucks have electric motors on each wheel, with a big diesel powering them - correct me if wrong, any mine mechanics.

Been watching a lot of 4x4 vids lately and I reckon the Grenadier's premise is the correct and best path. Way back when work trained me for 4x4 and remote, the instructor was very old school, live axles, keep your wheels on the ground, diesel manual, low, low reduction gears, deploy your low/lock before you need it, adjust the tyres in anticipation etc, as simple as possible mechanicals, kind of thing. Even stuff like digging in spare tyres and using as winch points (!) and using your own rear rim as a winch (!!).

I've been watching a lot of stuff with the traction control and IFS 4x4s (eg any modern dual cab, things like L322s) and while the climbing ability is brilliant, there's so much time with one wheel stuck up in the air and often slamming back down. Seeing an old live-axle car go with all wheels on the ground, great chassis twist, large articulation is very satisfying. And we've done a bit ourselves in the Disco 1, which has been heaps of fun.

Interestingly enough, the Bronco with IFS has more wheel travel than the Jeep Wranglers live axle. If you design it right, it's not a hindrance.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Interestingly enough, the Bronco with IFS has more wheel travel than the Jeep Wranglers live axle. If you design it right, it's not a hindrance.

AM General HMMWV has has IRS/IFS since the 1980s, so you are indeed correct, its going to be advantage anywhere you can keep wheels on the ground.



Does reasonably well off road too, not too well against IEDs unfortunately

I'd love one of those things, the US military has begun decommissioning their fleet of them recently so the older ones are coming up for sale reasonably cheap.

Not sure how keen VicRoads is on people owning military vehicles but they didn't have any problems when I registered an ambulance

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

AM General HMMWV has has IRS/IFS since the 1980s, so you are indeed correct, its going to be advantage anywhere you can keep wheels on the ground.

image

Does reasonably well off road too, not too well against IEDs unfortunately

I'd love one of those things, the US military has begun decommissioning their fleet of them recently so the older ones are coming up for sale reasonably cheap.

Not sure how keen VicRoads is on people owning military vehicles but they didn't have any problems when I registered an ambulance

There is an episode of Wheeler Dealers where Mike and Ed buy from from the US military surplus yard. Was full of them for sale in various states.

[Yellow_Festiva]

At around $90k DA I think it's too expensive.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

At around $90k DA I think it's too expensive.

Though it's a 'discount' compared to a 79 series wagon, as much as I dislike the idea of a BMW diesel their 3L I6 in both unleaded and diesel is a **** tonne better than that 1VD-FTV boat anchor that Toyota has persisted with for the past 15 years.

I'm not keen on Jap diesel, they just don't do it as well as Americans or Europeans, always underwhelming, at least with passenger vehicles and light commercial anyway.

I wonder if they approached Cummins at all to supply an engine and BMW put in a better offer?

What Toyota does REALLY well is spares availability nationally, you could be on the moon and there's be a Toyota dealership there with a 79 series Land Cruiser and Hilux in kit form like an IKEA furniture pack waiting for you to need parts.

I'm suspect on Ineos's dedication to parts availability in Australia with BMW components and thats going to be a big factor with this thing.

[Citroënbender]

Are there privately owned Grenadiers on the road here yet - excluding any DPs who have requisitioned a demo model? I’ve not been able to discern this clearly.

[Bill M]

Franco Cozzo "I'd love one of those things, the US military has begun decommissioning their fleet of them recently so the older ones are coming up for sale reasonably cheap.

Not sure how keen VicRoads is on people owning military vehicles but they didn't have any problems when I registered an ambulance"

There is quite a few Humvees in Australia and particularly in Victoria. The local MV club members have imported a number of them. There was large lot of USMC Humvees disposed of in 1999 in Atlanta, Georgia which was the first Ex military lot to make it onto the domestic market. I understand there has been a policy change and the public can buy used Military Humvees for offroad use only.
Yes Vicroads does allow registration on club plates.

[MrEL]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Interestingly enough, the Bronco with IFS has more wheel travel than the Jeep Wranglers live axle. If you design it right, it's not a hindrance.

It's not all about wheel travel.
So many people think it is , you can tell rapidly they are the ones who don't know what they are talking about.

Yes an IFS can have enough travel that the wheels touching the ground but with no weight on it , it might as well not be there.
It's just going to skid and not ad to the drive.

A live axle pushes down with the same amount of force as the high side is being pushed up with. Get it to touch the ground and that's where you have traction and control.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Bill M

I understand there has been a policy change and the public can buy used Military Humvees for offroad use only.

Most of the US states are issuing on-road titles for HMMWV's now

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

Most of the US states are issuing on-road titles for HMMWV's now

Not quite. 30 out of 50 will not.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Interestingly enough, the Bronco with IFS has more wheel travel than the Jeep Wranglers live axle. If you design it right, it's not a hindrance.

Is that the standard Wrangler or do they also have more than the Rubicon with sway bar dis connects?
With that amount of articulation are CV angles proving to be a weak point?
BTW.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by smoo

Is that the standard Wrangler or do they also have more than the Rubicon with sway bar dis connects?
With that amount of articulation are CV angles proving to be a weak point?
BTW.

image

No, Bronco is the off road US competition Jeep haven’t had, and now they’re **** scared.

Fan boys ****ting their pants and trolling.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

No, Bronco is the off road US competition Jeep haven’t had, and now they’re **** scared.

Fan boys ****ting their pants and trolling.

Not a fan boy and not trolling, posted as I know Boss has made some colourful comments about Jeep
As someone who is detached from the new car scene, they were genuine questions. The weakest point of IFS 4wd is the CV joints. Lift them and run to excess angles and their lifespans lessens ten fold. I’d be surprised if Ford have skirted around this issue? Diff locks are gonna help but nothing can compensate for someone behind the wheel with no mechanical sympathy.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by smoo

Is that the standard Wrangler or do they also have more than the Rubicon with sway bar dis connects?
With that amount of articulation are CV angles proving to be a weak point?
BTW.

image

Not sure. All I could find was this. Bronco has sway bar disconnect available as well.

Both vehicles can be had with disconnecting sway bars, though the Bronco bar can be engaged and disengaged even when the suspension is articulated. We'll save the IFS vs. solid axle debate for another story, but one could argue that the Bronco's 17 percent improvement in front wheel travel and 10 percent improvement in rear wheel travel over the Wrangler—and better factory shock offerings—makes the Bronco a clear winner. However, there are die-hard solid axle guys out there who appreciate the toughness and simplicity. It also depends on what type of terrain and wheeling you enjoy doing; with so many variables and no seat time yet, we aren't touching this one.


The Bronco Raptor has even more articulation.


For the most hardcore of off-roaders the live front axle would be the go. Only for the extreme rock crawler guys. The rest of the buyers have to suffer with how **** poor the Wrangler is on road. Horrible thing to drive. I drove a few of the comparison vehicles we had here and they were awful.


Ford would be stoked how the Bronco is going. If they could just build enough of them they could move past the Wrangler, which is on the slide.



Ford sold 32,430 units of the Bronco, up by 37.6 percent from 23,573 units sold in the same period last year. Ford reported a continued strong demand, driven by conquesting about 60 percent, with top buyers coming from the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee.


On the other hand, Jeep sold 37,971 units of the Wrangler, which was more than the number of Bronco units sold in the same period. However, this figure is down by 17 percent from 45,551 Wrangler units sold last year.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Bill M

There is quite a few Humvees in Australia and particularly in Victoria. The local MV club members have imported a number of them. There was large lot of USMC Humvees disposed of in 1999 in Atlanta, Georgia which was the first Ex military lot to make it onto the domestic market. I understand there has been a policy change and the public can buy used Military Humvees for offroad use only.
Yes Vicroads does allow registration on club plates.

Are they registering them under a military club plate, surely they're not old enough for Historic club plates yet.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Are they registering them under a military club plate, surely they're not old enough for Historic club plates yet.

The rolling 25 year rule works in their favour, the ones on Club rego in the Victorian Military Vehicle Corps are from the mid to late 1980's from memory. AM General started building them for the US Military in 1984.

[Citroënbender]

So, referring back to Post 13 - there are actually no privately owned, full production, Grenadiers on the road here, yet? We’re in the second week of June, and they were supposed to be filtering out to the public by May.

I’ve not seen articulate comment about cited “production delays” either. It suggests a factory under-supplied with expertise in some critical points, or suffering a bit of a cash hiccup. This is disappointing to consider, I have held out hope for the product.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Are they registering them under a military club plate, surely they're not old enough for Historic club plates yet.

They've been around longer than I have, they used them in the US invasion of Panama in 1989 and the first Gulf war which was the HMMWV's first combat deployments.

[Franco Cozzo]

Paint those wheels silver and you got a wicked set of Commodore interceptors

This guys audio on his videos is ****ful because its all over the joint, but he does good content.

[Sprintey]

Ineos begins construction of Quartermaster ute: they've gone for more tray than most:

https://performancedrive.com.au/ineo...ster-ute-2814/

and even moar tray is coming:

"INEOS also says that a cab chassis variant utilising the same frame as the Quartermaster dual-cab is set to enter production at some point in 2024 set to offer even more space in the rear tray."

[Sprintey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKt3ZX9HGow&t=21s

Right lets have a play with this and see if I can make the link appear



nope I'm a shocker at this. The vid is in the top link

[Bill M]

I saw one a few days ago in the Sth Eastern suburbs of Melbourne, first glance I thought it was the Range/Land/Rover/Disco etc but getting closer it was the Grenadier. Not bad!

[Sprintey]

Yep we've seen 2 or 3 now. It's on the young tradey's list as tradeymobile of his dreams, wagon to keep all the tools locked up.