Name and shame

[daneoandy]

Hi Guys and Girls.

I am frustrated with the service provided by some so called "professionals" in the automotive industry. It seems too often shops are more than willing to take your money, provide less than was promised, provide sub-acceptable service and give next to no after sales support.

I believe it is only fair to provide a forum where people who have experienced poor service, can share their experiences in the hope that maybe some of these shops will pick up their game, or that others can make a more informed decision before handing over their pride and joy/hard earned.

Its just an idea. Like I said I am frustrated. So feel free to give me some feed back before we start.

I understand people make mistakes...but its how we deal with these mistakes that is of most importance in my opinion.

[Trevor 57]

You first, it is your idea

[daneoandy]

Originally Posted by Trevor 57

You first, it is your idea

Haha. What are your thoughts though?

Im looking for honest feed back at this stage. Do you think its fair to vent, given the offenders have had ample oportunity to correct their mistakes?

[bangm001]

yes but you need to make sure the what is posted is not biased (an extremely difficult task on here).. State ALL of the FACTS.

[Spurious]

I think it's best not to make a public nuisance of yourself.
It's always best to approach the business & give them the opportunity to make good on repairs. Even consumer affairs will tell you this.
You could find it hard to get your car serviced if your local mechanics also had their own forum for "annoying or whinging customers", this is not to suggest that you fall into that category...but it goes both ways.

The average motor vehicle has anywhere between 10,000 & 15,000 individual parts. When individual components fail it can be a tricky business trying to diagnose & repair. Mechanics are human too, they are trained & experienced in different things & they all have different areas of expertise.
You simply open Pandoras box if you approach a mechanic with a problem vehicle & say "fix it". If you don't have a clue what the problem is then understand that the mechanic has just as much of a clue 'cause he is starting from scratch.

The responsibility also falls partially on the vehicle owner. My theory has always been, if you want to own a motor vehicle, or any piece of machinery for that matter, it's your responsibility to learn how to use & maintain it.
Basically, if you own a car but you need to call roadside assist for a flat tyre, then maybe you should buy a bus pass!
Also if you appear to have more money than brains, people are going to take advantage of you sooner or later.

Communication is a humans greatest tool, so use it instead of sitting , thinking & stewing over a problem.

[Tonz]

You willing to take your comments to court.
Companies being slandered are willing to defend their reputation in court.
AFF wont back or support you (I'd guess) so you better have deep pockets.

[daneoandy]

Originally Posted by G6AUII?

I think it's best not to make a public nuisance of yourself.
It's always best to approach the business & give them the opportunity to make good on repairs. Even consumer affairs will tell you this.
You could find it hard to get your car serviced if your local mechanics also had their own forum for "annoying or whinging customers", this is not to suggest that you fall into that category...but it goes both ways.

The average motor vehicle has anywhere between 10,000 & 15,000 individual parts. When individual components fail it can be a tricky business trying to diagnose & repair. Mechanics are human too, they are trained & experienced in different things & they all have different areas of expertise.
You simply open Pandoras box if you approach a mechanic with a problem vehicle & say "fix it". If you don't have a clue what the problem is then understand that the mechanic has just as much of a clue 'cause he is starting from scratch.

The responsibility also falls partially on the vehicle owner. My theory has always been, if you want to own a motor vehicle, or any piece of machinery for that matter, it's your responsibility to learn how to use & maintain it.
Basically, if you own a car but you need to call roadside assist for a flat tyre, then maybe you should buy a bus pass!
Also if you appear to have more money than brains, people are going to take advantage of you sooner or later.

Communication is a humans greatest tool, so use it instead of sitting , thinking & stewing over a problem.

I agree with all your points, and thank you for your opinion I do appreciate it.

This is exactly what I wanted to hear before going to these lengths. I have experienced a complete breakdown of comunication between myself and another party. I have always maintained a polite manner, only to be left in the dark time and time again.

I understand mechanics are only human, and I appreciate that people make mistakes...we all do. But as I said its how u deal with those mistakes that matters.

I just expect that what ever business u are in, you should provide acceptable and competent service at very least. Ie, imagine u contract a builder to build your home extension only to find bricks missing, pipes leaking, etc and then they wont return tour calls....

I will continue to attempt to resolve my issues through comunications if at all posible.

Frustration is a burden, but I guess these things happen when modifying cars. Maybe its just the risk we take and part of the game.

[99AUXR]

Mmmm defamation.

Best thing you can do is list all the facts of your scenario here without naming the place for starters.

[daneoandy]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

Mmmm defamation.

Best thing you can do is list all the facts of your scenario here without naming the place for starters.

If I have no joy this week (week 4) in resolving the issues I will post further. I really didnt want to go to these lengths at all.

I just dont know what protection I have as a consumer and Im sick of trying day in day out to get things sorted.

Thanks to all for your feed back.

[Sioso]

Originally Posted by daneoandy

If I have no joy this week (week 4) in resolving the issues I will post further. I really didnt want to go to these lengths at all.

I just dont know what protection I have as a consumer and Im sick of trying day in day out to get things sorted.

Thanks to all for your feed back.

Week 4!
I'm just starting week 12 and engaged a lawyer at week 11.
Annoying that I have to fork out more $$$ but nothing else was working.
Going to consumer affairs, fair trading etc... is going to take forever and no government department has ever been helpful or proactive in my experience they usually just waste more of your time.
Make sure you document everything.

[Crazy Dazz]

It sounds good in theory.
There are ratbags and cretins out there (in every industry) who deserve to be named and shamed.
Problem is, who makes that call?
Too often we see posts in here ranting against a vendor, which make no sense, leading to the inevitable conclusion that either the complainer is a moron, or is embellishing the facts.
Frankly I am tired of reading rants that basically say "I took my car to a mechanic/dealer and told then to fix a problem, I had no idea what was causing the problem, I didn't bother to ask to for a quote, now they have fixed the problem and I don't want to pay".

[Express]

Post up the details of your problem without naming the shop and omitting the emotional content and there will be members here that have experience in conflict resolution and they may offer good advice on how you should approach the repairer.

Likewise there are members here who have a reasonable grasp of consumer law who may also offer you direction if the problem can’t be resolved.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Sioso

Week 4!
I'm just starting week 12 and engaged a lawyer at week 11.
Annoying that I have to fork out more $$$ but nothing else was working.
Going to consumer affairs, fair trading etc... is going to take forever and no government department has ever been helpful or proactive in my experience they usually just waste more of your time.
Make sure you document everything.

As a general rule the ACCC only offers advice, they don’t fight your battles.

[TheSneakiness]

The problem with this is summed up in two words, public forum.

Anyone including the business can sign up here and see what you have posted. Then they have evidence to take it further if they choose so be very wise here and choose between emotion/frustration and rational thought. If it helps type it out on a word document. That way you are not tempted to accidently post it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Don't worry we get our fair share of flog customers too.

If people are willing to tarnish my reputation I'll give my side of the story, including all the customers details.

[smoo]

Two sides to every story.

And the customer isn't always right.

[daneoandy]

Originally Posted by smoo

Two sides to every story.

And the customer isn't always right.

Very constuctive.

Sometimes the customer gets screwed over too.

[daneoandy]

On a side note:

I might start a thread to thank those mechs and tuners who do the right thing too. Good service deserves recognition also👍

[Eaturbo]

Yeah I agree,tell us the story without mentioning the name and let members advise you and what they think about you situation. To many times dodgy work is done and the business bluff there way out of paying for there mistake. My brothers F6 Typhoon was blown up with 330rwkw with the best of everything bolted on but stock motor. The motor was rebuilt with the best of everything and they say that the most the motor can now handle is 360rwkw. Why is it that people think they can open a business and perform whatever mods to customers cars they like and than say well you wanted to take the risk. Than they take on performance work on a car that they have never worked on and think it can't be that hard. In stead of saying sorry mate we have never done one before they don't want to turn back the customers money. Sorry but I would name and shame a shop that had personally shafted me, good luck taking court action as they might end up being the one that comes out on the wrong end of the court battle.

The biggest thing is you need to research and get several opinions on your problem in case you find out that your the one that is the problem and you only heard what you wanted to hear. I find that you should always get everything in writing, This way no one can change there story and you remember later on exactly what the shop has told you.

[XG_Falcon]

I'm certain there is already a "good workshop/service" oriented thread.

[Shonky.]

The service I received from QFord Service at Springwood was so poor I elected to start serving my new car myself, happy to void my warranty so I wouldn't be tempted to make the mistake of returning to Ford and risk further damage to my beloved new car.

The sales experience I must say was the compete opposite, I was treated very well, and got a good price

[Mowdit]

I would say yes Daneodandy
A thread could be good.
I agree with a lot of what has been said so far
But there can/does come a time when a "heads up" to others is required.
So if burnt, and you feel like saying

"I HAD A BAD EXPERIENCE WITH COMPANY XYZ"
"BEWARE" !

Then sure.

But remember company's do change owners and staff

My dodgy panel beater sold out 4 months after I sued him, he never paid me as directed by the court, new owner turned the company around and has a good reputation now.....

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

The service I received from QFord Service at Springwood was so poor I elected to start serving my new car myself, happy to void my warranty so I wouldn't be tempted to make the mistake of returning to Ford and risk further damage to my beloved new car.

This is the biggest myth in the car industry.

If you service you own car as per the manufacture's schedule & use genuine (or equivalent) parts as required, you will not void your new car warranty.

The exceptions are: if the new part that you supplied has a failure (this is clearly not Ford's fault) then you will have to go the supplier or manufacturer of that part, on your own. Also if you stuff something up, like cross-thread the sump plug or similar, then again you are on your own.

Having said that, if you service the car as I described & you have a failure of say the air bag module, you would be covered. How can a dealership (or Ford) say that you caused the module failure merely by changing oil & filters etc, as part of a scheduled service routine.

I wouldn't go naming & shaming businesses on a public forum. There are many 'grey' areas in a service/client relationship that can often be put down to a lack of communication. There are also many cases of a mechanic's ineptitude or customer over-expectation.

I'm surprised you haven't had any joy with the NSW Dept. of Fair Trading. I've found them very efficient at sorting out such issues, on both sides of the coin. Maybe they're worth another call, they will often act as an intermediary, before any 'official' action is warranted.

Dr Terry

[dane75]

I've seen this turn ugly on a shooting forum. The forum owner got dragged through the court etc. How about instead of naming BAD service allow people to highlight GOOD service. That way people can see how they should be treated and places that will do right by you and then can choose to be patrons of that establishment or judge others by their standards. Saves on legal implications and aids everyone at the same time.

[99AUXR]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

This is the biggest myth in the car industry.

If you service you own car as per the manufacture's schedule & use genuine (or equivalent) parts as required, you will not void your new car warranty.

The exceptions are: if the new part that you supplied has a failure (this is clearly not Ford's fault) then you will have to go the supplier or manufacturer of that part, on your own. Also if you stuff something up, like cross-thread the sump plug or similar, then again you are on your own.

Having said that, if you service the car as I described & you have a failure of say the air bag module, you would be covered. How can a dealership (or Ford) say that you caused the module failure merely by changing oil & filters etc, as part of a scheduled service routine.

I wouldn't go naming & shaming businesses on a public forum. There are many 'grey' areas in a service/client relationship that can often be put down to a lack of communication. There are also many cases of a mechanic's ineptitude or customer over-expectation.

I'm surprised you haven't had any joy with the NSW Dept. of Fair Trading. I've found them very efficient at sorting out such issues, on both sides of the coin. Maybe they're worth another call, they will often act as an intermediary, before any 'official' action is warranted.

Dr Terry

As an independant workshop I can say that manufacturers do have the grounds to void warranty claims. I was reading a manual for a 2015 Triton a customer had just purchased and it clearly states this fact in the warranty area.

However we have not had one claim denied for any of our customers, we use genuine parts and fluids that meet OEM spec/requirements.

[FPV GTHO]

Doing it yourself crucially doesn't get the log book stamped either.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by daneoandy

I might start a thread to thank those mechs and tuners who do the right thing too. Good service deserves recognition also👍

There is already one available..............
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11306717

And remember Mr Google isn't selective in who he sends to AFF for information.

[petered]

Good site to post problems and positive feedback on.

http://www.productreview.com.au/

Gives suppliers the opportunity for response or rebuttal. Whilst comments are generally from the disenfranchised, it is a useful way of 'venting your spleen' outside the Forums.

[Express]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

As an independant workshop I can say that manufacturers do have the grounds to void warranty claims. I was reading a manual for a 2015 Triton a customer had just purchased and it clearly states this fact in the warranty area.

However we have not had one claim denied for any of our customers, we use genuine parts and fluids that meet OEM spec/requirements.

My understanding is the manufacturer’s warranty can say whatever it likes as their warranty doesn’t over rule or limit consumer guarantees as set out in Australian Consumer Law.

So failures or breakage not due to servicing would automatically be protected under law.

It would be expected that the person servicing the vehicle would be appropriately qualified and carry out any work in an accepted workman like manner and therefore your warranty would be safe.

A backyard mechanic would have to prove the work was of the required standard.

The ACCC spends a lot of time trying to get it into consumer heads not to be fooled by manufacturers and retailers as warranties are meaningless, Consumer Law takes precedence every time.

If I was ever intending to sell the vehicle I'd definitely want the book stamped by a qualified mechanic.

[petered]

Express is correct - you cannot contract (warrant yourself) out of Statute. The Consumer and Competion Act (2010) is evidence of the ongoing refinement of laws designed to protect consumers and impose obligations on suppliers. The intention is to protect consumers and not allow slip-shod practices to escape the law.

In the context of a society that promotes consumer rights it acceptable to bring to the attention of the Law Makers, the Law Enforcers and the Community at large instances where there are breaches of laws in relation to misleading / deceptive statements and shoddy practices. The community seeks feedback and reviews as part of its' decision making processes and we are entitled to express LEGITIMATE FACTS AND EXPERIENCES.

Having said the above I exercise caution in making public comments that can not be backed up with evidence / facts. Unfortunately it is often the case in Civil actions where the party with the biggest cheque book wins. However, fear of litigation should NOT gag people where they have been legitimately harmed. My 'two penneth' worth.